I think carrot's got the right idea! XD

I like the idea of this.

Except for the required lock-picking level... That was dumb in Fallout, and it's dumb here too.

I think it's hard to find a perfect system, and we're always going to be able to find lockpicking games to easy/hard for our own tastes. I think a combination of the current mini-game and the rules posted by carrot give us a nice middle ground to work with. It allows our characters to only move at their own pace, and still provides a somewhat immersive take on lockpicking.

I also like the idea of locking our doors and chests, plus having traps on locked items. I'd also take it a step further and see our own trap making implemented, and not just on locks.

It was removed as part of the anti-magic "group think" the Bethesda team engaged in for Skyrim. The totality in which Bethesda designed magic out of the game is a freaking case study in drinking the kool-aid.

1-Remove Unlock, Burden, Feather, Skill Boost, and spells "on other" [except for healing ]spells
2-Remove Chameleon [totally unnecessary as readying invisibility spells before touching things or entering areas works just as well, it just adds another inconvenience for mages]
3-Require Detect life and Shield to be a constant drain on mana
4-Remove Spellmaking
5-Prohibit Destruction spells from scaling unlike every other method of inflicting damage
6-Use a casting animation that delays firing and increases inaccuracy in aiming. [Bethesda claims Bioshock as their inspiration for magic, but Bioshocks casting was instantaneous]
7-Prohibit enchants to specific articles of clothing
8-Apply the limitation of enchants to specific articles of clothing unevenly and to the benefit of melee ...as most everything else is. [Smithing enchants can be applied to clothes, Alchemy can't]

People can say this was to address balance issues, but when that perspective about balance wasn't applied anywhere else it is then obviously all a bunch of BS used to distract from the fact that nerfing magic was deliberate, thorough and had nothing to do with balance, but everything to do with pushing Shouts and "Nordish" melee solutions in gameplay.

Bethesda should swallow their pride, admit their current approach to magic fails basic principles of good game-play and undo the nerfing in all the areas it was engaged. At the very least it needs to be done on the last DLC offered... when it doesn't really matter, but hopefully it will be offered sooner.

Well all you'd need then is keep the same system he's got, but make the "benchmarks" say 50% chance of success for lock of this level, and have the chance scale up and down o nthe direction you go. That way you'll still get the option to bash, open/melt locks of all levels but the higher you go the less successful you get.

Skill Checks are a very basic and fundamental principle that governs how most things work in RPGs. Fallout didn't create that idea. The idea that unless you meet a certain skill level you CAN'T do something is fine. You CAN'T craft Daedric Armor or Weapons unless you have the required skill to get the Perk. You CAN'T obtain Perks until you meet the required Skill level to get the Perks. This is no different. The fact that me as a level 1 character with 1 Lockpicking I can open ANYTHING in the entire game is dumb.

Then you'd have dozens of threads complaining how the game forces you to revisit areas you already cleared. There is no way the devs can win.

Not to mention that you'd have to keep notes on which dungeons have locked chests you couldn't open and if the game wouldn't allow this for some reason, you'd have another wave of threads complaining how the game forces you to keep pen and paper on your side while playing.


It wouldn't make sense. Anyone can bash a lock, you don't need a special skill to do it, much less a special weapon skill to do it.

segvirion-

you make good points. however, it would take a bunch of us about half an hour to come up with some very high quality ideas of a great lockpicking system and mechanics.

the problem i see is that beth seems to have some creative deficiencies. the only real "idea" they had with this game is to level what you use in-game, though, that has been suggested for years.

this game is not a rpg. it is a roleplaying sim.

It would be awesome to see our character (warrior class mostly), triggering an animation of jamming a sword/dagger into the chest and prying it open...or taking a mace/hammer and bashing it open...a simple animation of the chest cracking open would suffice.

On a side note about chests....why throughout skyrim are there master locked chests with useless, non-valuable items in them. Throughout dungeons there are sometimes a well placed chest that takes a bit of effort to get too...and when you finally get to it...nothing.

Skyrim needs more unique items!

I disgaree with that, especially when Skyrim got rid of the skill level spell requirement. You can cast any spell in Skyrim if you got the magicka, unlike Oblivion where you had to have a certain skill level.
I see things a little bit differently then others. I like Balance in my games but I also like freedom too with some exceptions if something is broken. Unfortunately open spells under Skyrim's system would be an exploit because you could with the magicka easily open a master lock chest with no effort, that same person who used a lockpick would have a tougher time unless they got lucky and guessed where the pick would move.

I've found many actually. Many of the radiant quests require you to find an item in a locked chest. Sometimes I can find the dungeon key, sometimes I can not or there is not one. The necessisity is not really the problem here, however. The problem is there are no reasonable alternatives to lockpicking. No the tower stone is not a reasonable alternative because it is a one a day power, not something you can use actively in a dungeon to open 7 different combinations of chests/doors.


You sir, hit the nail on the head. Sadly a game made a decade ago by the same company had a better system in place. At least it incorporated my character's skill level in lockpicking.

Because guess what? Right now any character I make, starting at level 1 can open a master level lock in Skyrim. Not because of my lockpicking skill but because I've mastered the lockpicking mini-game. So has most people who played this game. It shouldn't have to be that way. Give us an alternative to lockpicking like we used to have in Alteration, and make the lockpicking action actually dependent on the skill level/talent tree like it used to be and you will have happier customers.

One last thing, to all the people who complained that alteration open lock spells made lockpicking obsolete, well you could only make that argument if you couldn't open a lock with lock picking that you could with spells.

Why do you care if a mage can open a lock just as you can? He has to level the respect school of magic to be able to use those high level open lock spells just as you had to level lockpicking to open yours. I see no problem here until you start removing game content. It's the lack of RP options and immersion that is the root of the problem here.

While you may be able to use any spell with the appropriate amount of magicka, gaining that amount before unlocking the necessary perk can be impossible in many cases. This system still forces you to obtain a certain level while adding using a perk to unlock the ability to make use of your experience. Its basically an even more demanding system in many cases.

To solve the issue of unlocking with ease in the current system, just make the spell cost an ungodly amount. At the same time, while we're making changes, make lockpicking 100% chance to open on use when the appropriate level is achieved. Take a look at carrot's post for a detailed description.

So.
If I give you a lockpick, will you be able to open any door with a regular lock in a couple of minutes?
No?
So lockpicking DOES require character skill in the real world.

With 80-ish enchant, you can cast any spell in the game for free.

I'd be able to open it eventually, I believe. After ruining a number of lockpicks (Even if they aren't as flimsy as the ones in Skyrim are).

Just like in Skyrim.

Yup, and the level requirement is just a way of simulating actual skill within a game. Since we don't have the ability to use real hands in game, it's hard to perfectly simulate picking a lock. It's like adding visual ques to help with the loss of other senses in a game, like touch and smell. Visual ques can help with hearing in game as well, since proper sound is hard to simulate without expensive surround sound or headphones.

Enchanting is just imbalanced, I can't argue with that. I was just ignoring that fact to make a point. We could get onto a whole new discussion if I didn't!

yh agree. I think they should have three ways to open a chest / door

1, lock pick
2. magic (could even melt the lock)
3. smash through

Obvious each would have skill rating and each will have its own benefits or problems. Some locks would be harder to smash break. Some may be near impossible. Smashing the a lock would be noisy etc.

Eh, if you hurl fireballs at a wooden container, it *might* catch on fire, if its soaked in oil or something, You'd need a consistent flame source to get most things going, then you'd risk burning up, melting, or causing pressure explosions of whatevers inside. Burning up magical scrolls, and exploding potion bottles would cause all sorts of potential trouble, and so on.

Frost-biting the lock for a bit then smacking it with a hammer would probably do fine though.

To the OP:

People claim if there was a way to bash locks or a way to use spells to open locks then that would take away from the amazing Lockpicking Skil tree that EVERYBODY puts so many points into.

I've never invested a dime in the Lockpick tree, and I open locks with my ocean of picks. (900ish right now.) Really, if you just pick up all the picks you find, you really should never run out of picks. If you somehow do, then I'll be amazed.

Houseparty said it right. Lockpicking is one of the easier parts of the game.

Well, since im playing on PC, I will hit a door with my warhammer and use the console to unlock it, Thats a temporary fix for me, until a mod comes out for it...I hope.

Never put one point into lockpicking. I use some gear that I found while playing to help but honestly it's never an issue. I would love to have an open lock spell though.

I'm utterly dumbstruck as to how. Are you holding down on W or whatever the 'Move the Lockpick' button is on PS3/X360? My strategy is to hold quickly tap W for less then a second. If it doesn't move, move the pick to a different location. Repeat.

If you're doing that, you should also pick up all lockpicks. They have no weight, why not?

What's you're lockpick skill?