To be fair the woman you murder in cold blood was just as cold blooded.

I wouldn't call either Mephala or Boethiah "good" just because they are revered by the Morag Tong/alot of Dunmer respectively. Morag Tong is a clan of Assassins; they act as an "above the law" establishment in Dunmer society to get rid of people they don't like, pretty much. A very dark shade of grey if you ask me. And both of these princes are lords of deciet. Though deciet might not necessarily accomplish something one would consider "evil", these guys revel in it. They love it when a man turns on his brother out of greed, as an example. Is taking amusemant in this not evil? Furthermore, history has made the Dunmer people rather bitter and spiteful, so I wouldn't really look to them for moral authority.

So, end-quote-reply. Furthermore, I must say that I disagree with constantly trying to discredit the usage of the word "evil". It definately applies. Black and white are still part of a grey scale. You can certainly argue that Vaermina, the lord of nightmares, is not evil. But from my point of view, nightmares and the untold horrors that Vaermina represents, is indeed an "evil" concept. Then there are those that you couldn't possibly argue against beeing evil. Of course, I am speaking of Molag Bal. He is as black as black gets, there is no doubt.

So, my point is: why can't we just name evil for what it is and accept that? There really is no need to vindicate anything, it's just fiction.

Because evil and good are subjective. Malog Bal is the Daedric lord of domination and thus can easily fit into animals when they fight for dominance and Mehrunes Dagon is the Daedric prince of destruction which sort of fits into the philosophy that new life can rise from the ashes of destruction.

Hircine = Daedric prince of the hunt = huntsmen get his blessings

Nocturnal = Daedric princess of luck so you do the math

Azura = Daedric princess of dusk and dawn but still somewhat occupies a gray area by Daedra standards

Boethiah = Daedric princess of deciet and sometimes that is a good thing (would you give top secret information to your enemies and allow them to destroy your nation or would you save your nation by lying to your enemies?)

Clavicus Vile grants wishes but there is always a catch as in he does a favor for you and you have to do a favor for him

Hermaeus Mora = Daedric prince of fate (hint hint)

Jyggalag = Daedric prince of order (hey guess what even order can be a bad thing)

Malacath (whose statue in Skyrim looks a bit like Darth Maul for some reason) is the patron of the spurned and ostracized

Mephala is just plain confusing

Meridia has a strong dislike for the undead

Namria is the Daedric princess of Decay/Death and that is in nature too

Peryite is the Daedric prince of tasks

Sanguine is one of those darker shades of gray daedric lords

Sheogorath = Daedric prince of madness which isn't always a bad thing

Vaermina is again one of the daedric lords that is a darker shade of gray

The point is that good and evil for mortals is not the same as good and evil for daedra.

There are rewards for doing good in the game, I just prefer playing a thief. You do get a blessing if you give a septim to beggars. You also get houses for doing good deeds for the Jarls. The child who wanted a cruel owner of an orphanage killed was a victim of the lady's cruelty, so that whole thing is a mixed bag that could be called a good deed or not or both.

There's also fetch quests that often involve finding items for someone that were stolen.

There are also many other good things such as slaughtering bandits . . . in werewolf form XD

They have no quests.

It's actually disappoiting that Vigilants of Stendarr aren't involved in the game at all; I hope that they get quests come the DLC (especially given that there's an outpost for them with several NPCs, only no point or quests).

Even though, as an example, Molag Bal _CAN_ represent the need for a dominant leader in an animal pack, it is a fact that he greatly enjoys seeing tyrants of unspeakable decadence perform vile acts on their subjects, and seeing brothers eating eachother alive in hatred, and other things that are too inappropriate to mention anywhere.

Remember that the Daedra are conscious individuals. Tell me this: if a man murdered his own son for no good reason, and did not regret it at all, would you consider that evil? Or is it not evil because he might not consider it so? So again, why not just call the man evil? It's an adjective, not some deep philisophical term, of an acting individual and/or an act that has been performed upon an unwilling victim. That is how I see it anyway. And by this definition, "evil" applies to (almost) all the greater Daedra.

Really, I don't disagree with you either, I'm just questioning and criticizing the aversion for "evil" as a defining word. I usually play a very "practical" wizard-type character, that would kill anyone if they had something he needed, or would certainly not go out of his way to find a "peaceful resolution" instead etc etc, and I have no problem calling this character "evil". Like I said, just a descriptive term, I don't put any particular weigth into it. Means he would rather kill the stupid nord with the staff rather than buying it from him.

Traditional definitions, yes- although morality and exactly what is considered 'righteous' can sometimes vary significantly between cultures, both real and imagined.

As a gamer, though, my definitions are more along the lines of...

Good- whatever I choose to do, whether my character would be considered good or evil, by others. I don't care if I am a backstabbing, murdering assassin for hire. If that is my game-choice, then everything I do is perfectly good, as far as I'm concerned. 'Right' is in the eye of the beholder, in a fantasy.

Evil- anything that tries to kill, hurt, mislead, cheat, steal or take my freedom from me, whether it be in the name of 'good', or pure animalistic lawlessness. Again, if I am a self-content and happy assassin, any guards or sherrifs or forces of 'good' that try to mess with me, are evil in my eyes. And shall die painfully

My problem is that I can't "correct" anything. I want to set Maven Black Briar on fire, and then torch the Thieve's Guild so badly. I already torched the DB...

ALso isn't doing random side quests considered "good"?

This^

I want to purge the TG and set the Lioness' mind as ease and basically save the town from those bullies. I can't believe we could do this with the DB but not the TG.

One could argue one way or another. Personally, I find even Asura evil for being a demon...daemon...sorry, daedric prince. I find not the companions per say, but the circle is most certainly an evil clan of
If you want to be a good guy in Skyrim, the main quest seems to follow a divine path, and the mages guild isn't prominently evil. There is this demon that gives you a shiny undead slaying sword which is awesome for paladin players.

Yes, there is a lack of purely good options.

Theres few purely good factions. Like a group of virtuous knights or something.
If you want to have a purely good, always nice character, you can't as well as you should.

Because theres no good opposite to some of the factions.

Daedra are a mix, good and evil.
You've got the option to choose, anyway.

There is'nt elsewere, sometimes.

Which by the time I generally get to that part of the continat is worthless and cannot be unmade to learn the enchantment. Yes I have upgraded it to the point of useability, but my own enchantments are as good or better much of the time.

Im sorry, new here. Is there a spellcheck function? I know continat is wrong but...

Not per se - your browser's spellcheck function should be operable? [And perhaps "content" is the word you meant?]

Most TES games are pretty dark in some respects, but the black cloud seems to hang especially low over Skyrim. Not sure whether it's the Civil War or the end times feel of dragons returning and destroying everything, or the Thalmor's totalitarian grip on most of Tamriel, but everything you do or run into seems to be depressing or hopeless feeling. Granted it's a matter of perspective, but even so, there's very little happy endings in Skyrim. Not that it's so terrible, it's almost refreshing to be given a dose of reality as opposed to EVERYTHING IS BETTER FOREVER YAY.

Molag Bal is evil. He's the prince of tyranny and [censored].

I don't find it especially depressing.... but that's likely due to my own private playstyle. I do NOT, however, appreciate "doses of reality" in games I play to get away from reality. Which means I stay very far away from the war, etc. in this game....

That's fair. Some things are indeed touchy to certain people and that's okay. /hug <:

And it's not really depressing as much as it is disparaging I guess is the word. Like even after you help out nothing really feels like it's been improved. Or maybe I'm being a Debbie Downer.

I couldn't disagree more. Quite the opposite. Skyrim needs a lot more evil. I especially liked Bohemia's quest where you have to sacrifice someone who trusts you. That is truly evil. Everything else is just a grey blurr with shades of white and black.

Well... Skyrim is in the middle of a civil war.

Oh, nothing does change much. That's again, my "private" playstyle - I just pretend it's all better and go on from there. I have an EXCELLENT imagination.

well i think my fallout char would highly disagree with you, then probley cut your arms and legs off and eat your body, i wouldnt say skyrim leans more to the evil side its just people trying to survive and thrive in a harsh land, tends to bring out the worst in people, also as the saying goes ``the road to hell is paved with good intentions``, good people do evil things for the greater good and evil people do good things for the greater evil, works both ways

Well yeah, imagination makes everything better. As is, some things just feel end in a lot of death and stuff or in uncertainties, which is kinda neat.

Thing is, with even a marginal imagination, this game is perfect. NOTHING CHANGES.... therefore, one can RP any situation as she wishes.... Which is why I love TES above all.

Saaaame. YAY FOR CREATIVITY.