Why do some plots FORCE us to do evil things? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:03 am

Its frustrating.

I have one that is a permanent fixture in my journal because I don't want to go through with it and even though you are given the option of declining it doesn't close the quest.
Its starts with find shrine, then find cult, then sacrifice your companion . . .
Why on earth are you not allowed to decline that and end the quest!?

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:00 am

Well I just completed a job where I had no alternative (that I could see) but to murder someone for no reason other than someone wanted him dead and it would get me out of jail.

Now this might be fine for evil characters of the assassins Guild, but i`m not part of any of that and play generally neutral to good, certainly not a murderer.

In this particular case my only other choice was, well, to sit in jail breaking rocks for life, ie, THE REST OF THE GAME!

the only saving grace of the plotline was, "I`d prefer to forget about all this!"

Me too.

That's realism and immersion being brought into the game.

If you have gone through your whole life and have never been forced, forced by either circumstance or bad planning to make a choice that can be construed as evil... then it is quite possible that you have never had to leave your house. Every single day we are forced to make the choice between the lesser of two evils in a whole host of situations, and Bethesda designed Skyrim in this exact same way.

Sometimes you have to do reprehensible things in order to make your situation better, or even just to make it through the day. Such is life.

Now, I know there may be quite a few members who are going to list the most extreme situations, and then try to tell me that "they've never been forced to do that in their real lives so why do they have to make that choice in this game", all in an attempt to discredit my argument.

Problem with that logic is this: It is the so-called "minor" choices that affect things just as much as the larger ones. It isn't always the most extreme of circumstances (which are rare) that are the true evil, but the much more common "minor" circumstances that determine true good or evil. There are a ton of actions/choices/dialogues that all of us have to make per day that can be seen as "Evil". Nobody has to murder someone every day, but it happens. As far as the OP goes, why did you put yourself in a situation where you had to murder someone?

Spoiler

Wouldn't it have been much, much easier to just skip "The Forsworn Conspiracy" entirely rather than be thrown in jail for doing the "Good" choice and solving it? Everyone knew that the Markarth Guards are in the Silver-bloods pocket, what did you think would happen once you shut all of that down?

In my opinion, all of the reprehensible actions that you are "forced" to perform are brought upon yourself in direct relation to the choices that you make/have made in this game. I fully take responsibility for every bad thing that has ever happened to any of my characters, just like I do with the good things. My character came to all of those situations based directly upon choices that He/I have made through our path in the game.

Quit saying it's "wrong" that you are "forced" to make that choice. Quit saying that it must be a programming mistake or bad design on Bethesda's part that you have to do these things. It is your own choices and decisions in this game that lead you to where you are at. You limited your characters choices to either a) Murder, or

Conspiracy, with your own actions.

If you are unhappy with the results, you have only yourself to blame. Not Bethesda.

Try making more intelligent choices and you won't have this dilemma.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:07 am

One tip is you're trying to stay good whilst helping the Forsworn escape (which might not be the best option but it's a helluva fight otherwise) is to make sure the escape attempt doesn't go ahead until the early hours - Neither choice is truly good but you can at least make sure no civilians get caught up in it

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:31 am

Again, same story with Oblivion.

On Oblivion, people complained there was too much good and not enough evil. :confused:

There IS an alternate path here, just look for it.

» Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:06 pm

I haven't been "forced" to do anything evil...I choose to. Remember that little thing called Free Will? Exercise it.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:21 am

You always have a choice, although it may not always be apparent. For example, my thief character did this same quest and had 3 choices:

Spoiler

1. Kill an innocent (in his actions towards me) prisoner.
2. Kill the leader of a misguided hagraven worshipping cult.
3. Kill nobody and just walk out the door.

Here's how #3 was possible. My Illusion was maxed so I could wreak havoc or go invisible. I pick pocketed the note from the leader and then tried to attack him. With a shiv. Which does next to 0 damage if you favour the bow. That didn't end well. So I used a duel cast frenzy spell on him which got him all riled up and running around while I hid in a corner, invisible. He ran right into the cell in question which unlocked the door thereby allowing me to sneak out. I went a few steps into the tunnel before turning around. I just couldn't let that jerk get away with it. Problem was, using frenzy on him while he was alone didn't help because nobody picked up the cue to attack him. So I went back into the main holding area and cast frenzy on his pet orc. That got his attention and when he came to see what the commotion was about I gave him a good dose of frenzy again. Which got him lynched by his own followers. I call it poetic justice.

The point is, there are a lot of situations where you can try different approaches and discover a "impossible" solution. You just have to play creatively.

» Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:26 am

Dont beat yourself up about it too badly. Anything you had to do to keep yourself alive cant totally be classed as 'evil'. The world of Skyrim seems to be harsh and violent, and you must be too to survive in such a place.

I hated that quest because I hated having to team up with the scum in the prison.. but again, it's what you have to do to survive. There's nothing to say that when you get out you have to don that silly armour they give you or join in the fighting. Simply hang back out ot site and then sneak off to the college of winterhold and lie low with the mages for a while. They're a chilled out bunch and dont think too deeply on things that happened that were beyond your controll.

I dont think the game 'forces' anyone to be 'evil'. It's simply setting the scene for just what a brutal place skyrim is. Deal with it. Or mine ore for the next 400 hours.