What it looks more like you're doing is you've got an axe to grind, and you're trying to elminate any responses that don't fit your preconceived scenario. :shrug:



Arcanum!

If you'd come down off your high horse and look at the links in those previous responses I repeated for you, you'd know Arcanum has both: Guns (and similar tech, like steam trains) and Magic.

In fact, Arcanum's only difference to the "typical" scenario of throwing guns into a fantasy/magic setting is that they interact: characters with a high technological aptitude cause magic to behave unreliably in their vicinity, and those with a high magic aptitude make technology prone to failure. Because of this (for one example) any mages traveling by train are required to ride at the back in the "Mage's Caboose" to reduce the chances of their magical aptitude causing the locomotive's boiler to explode.



If you'd read instead of knee-jerking, you might realize your question has indeed been answered- but that comes back around to my first statement about the axe-grinding.

A very good game, however it don't fit in the TES universe, perhaps 300 year after Skyrim.

A power crazy Bosmer mage called Zaria discover the secret behind Dwenmer steam and how obvious it is, she later learn how to use magic to control them. Using seam engines it's easy to make steam golems who make more steam golems. She then decide that the emperor crown would look nice with her dress and attack the imperial city to become empress.

look I read those links and yes I get that. ( I have never heard of Arcanum but thats not the point of this topic) I don't want to know what games you've played that mix genres, I want to know why you play them and why they are a minority.

also I am hinting at a second question ; what if gamesas made a new fantasy rpg that included guns and magic but was not TES. would you play that. I never asked what games any one on the forums have played that have either or (or both) I am asking for the reason why or why not. so simply shouting arcanum or fable is off topic. And I am not trying to piss any one off, i am not trying to be confrontational and if it seems that way its because you are only reading the text and not seeing my face. so I would appreaciate it if I were not to receive any desparaging comments when I state that your answer was not relevent to the question I asked. cheers.

Arcanum had it, it was a traditional fantasy world who had steam and guns and had a Victorian feeling. Now add that the Victorian science fiction ideas worked, you could make monsters like Frankenstein, you could make small combat robots, also high technology was the realm of tinkers. You had an rich important character Gates who had stolen the steam engine from the dwarfs who only used it to pump water out of mines (the first use) and used it in factories. Now as other said magic and technology did not work well together, magic breaks the rules and create problems for technology, a mage can use a flintlock, but not an automatic weapon as it require more accuracy and would jam at once.
A very good game despite it's problems.

I play'em because I like'em, and they're a minority because games that aren't "one or the other" tend to be a minority. The reason the minority status is shrinking somewhat is the fairly recent trend of trying to svck in new customers by adding one to the other, and I've yet to see a "crossover" that I liked.



Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what it looked like, how I like the general "tone," and so on. It wouldn't get the TES "Get the guns out and get outta my face" treatment, for an obvious reason: It wouldn't be diluting TES, it would be its own creature from the word "go."



No. You asked, and I quote:



You did not ask for any reasons, and there's the proof of it. You asked if people would play/enjoy a non-TES RPG that included both magic and guns.



Wrong. You asked would people enjoy/play games with both magic and guns. Them stating that they have done so confirms that they would, and is thus completely on-topic as it answers the question you asked.



Yep- it's because I'm going by what you wrote, and not what you actually meant. And if those two things aren't the same, whose fault is that?

cheers

thats all in my OP, and ill admit that I wan't as clear as to what I intended to ask, thats why I clarified in my second post on this topic inserting the word why

back to the topic. arcanum sounds like its based on the premise that magic and tech negate each other. I get that from a balance point of view. however its not logical imo, the best way to balance the power of a gun against a sword or a spell would be that guns are expensive/ ammo expensive so that wasting ammo on weaker enemies would not be to the players benefit and encourages them to use more than just the guns to succeed.

What, like Warmachine/Hordes? Only a video game?

Yeah, I suppose that would be pretty cool.

If, in the future, TES, or Bethesda developed a game that involved a pirate theme, I would probably play that game, even if it had guns, as long as they were correct for the era. And yes, I did play Arcanum, It might be fun to do another game like that with modern graphics, etc. Even so, I do not want to see guns in Skyrim.

C'mon, I know you must have heard of Fable.

I believe the high horse he was on has been beaten to death more than 3 times.

Yes I would want my Enchanted Bluderbuss !

:rock:

yes, i want to play a fps with magick in it, steampunk sorta stuff. A western with wizards in it sounds amazing

Fable. Yah, it is genre mixing, and it doesnt work.

Warhammer? Sure, as long as I get to play Chaos (and not a Tzeentchian or Slaaneshi)

TES is awesome, Steampunk is awesome, but TES is not Steampunk. The world of TES and all the established lore would probably have to change too much in order for guns to be introduced. So I'm against TES with guns, but not against RPGs with magic and guns in general. Arcanum FTW.

Indeed, the concept of mixing fantasy and technology is not something no one has done before, and if you ask me, people who think it can't work just need more experience with it. Now, if you've tried various works that are based on the premise and widely regarded as good to those who like the concept (The key here is that they have to be seem as good. If everyone agrees they're bad, then maybe it's not so much that the premise doesn't work as just that it was handled poorly.) and still don't like the idea, that's perfectly fine. Some concepts just won't appeal to everyone, but if you're completely disregarded a genre you haven't really given a chance, then how can you really rightly say it "doesn't work"?

I would gladly play such a game, if it were good, it comes down to a question of how well it's handled. I agree, of course, that it wouldn't fit in the Elder Scrolls, but that's because the Elder Scrolls already has a fairly well established setting and feel, and guns just wouldn't fit with the feel of the setting. If you're making an original property, yo can do whatever you want with it, you want to put guns in a fantasy world? Fine with me, if I like the finished product, I'll buy it.

As to whether I'd play a game from Bethesda based on such a concept that was not the Elder Scrolls, if it appealed to me, than yes. I don't want guns in the Elder Scrolls, but it's not like the only game Bethesda can make is the Elder Scrolls, and Bethesda already owns another franchise that features guns, you know, Fallout? Sure, it's not fantasy, but since they have franchises both involving magic and guns, they could use lessons they learned from developing both franchises in the new game. And the way I see it, if Bethesda decided they wanted to explore such themes, developing an original franchise revolving around the concept would just allow them to do what they want without adding such things to established franchises they wouldn't fit.



I'd say the reason it's not more common is for the same reason why 99% of western fantasy takes place in what might as well be the exact same psuedo-Medieval generic fantasy world, with just some names changed. Because either many creators aren't creative enough to pull off something different from the norm well, or they think that people want to see the same tired concepts again, and again, and again, and again, and again until there's simply no way you can even hide the fact that there's nothing creative about your ideas, rather than seeing something original. And since having a setting that combines technology and magic would be different from the norm of faux-Medieval fantasy, creators don't want to do it.

Arcanum was my fav game, Id love to see a sequel. I like the idea of guns and magick, but only if done right. (Unlike fable)

I've never really interested about concept behind steampunk setting.
Not that I don't like idea of having fire arms and advanced tech mixed with magic and other common fantasy stuff.

Anything beyond 1800's is getting into Steampunk, where there's less "fantasy" and more sci-fi. Still some fantasy, but generally no Orcs and Elves, usually stuff like alchemy and Frankenstein technology. Could make a very cool game, and I'm sure there are several.

However, I would like a game with an earlier setting, 1400-1600, where guns and are limited to flintlock/matchlock styles. Kind of like Fable, but...not lame. Kind of imagine a conquistador traveling into the Americas and encountering the New World civilizations, so then there's a nice mix of melee and ranged combat, both with primitive and "advanced" weapons. You could even have magic in the form of Priests on both sides, calling on either the Holy Trinity or the Meso-American pantheon.

Explore ancient stone cities filled with ferocious warriors, loot forgotten tombs haunted by mummified royalty... Wow. Why hasn't someone made that game?

I want my late-Middle Age themed RPG mixed with some coke ads and maybe a tactical incendiary device.

Fable?

Hellgate London, yay! :twirl:

You gots your magic spells, your hi-tech guns, and your magic swords! And really kick-ass armor.

That's because future weapons, armor, and magic is much much more awesome than stuff that looks like 1800s tech.

40K is very awesome because it's a really advanced, futuristic universe, with magic and guns!

no

This thread inspired me to finally get Arcanum, and while I was at it I also installed Deus Ex and Planescape Torment for the first time. And now I can't decide with which game to start. Woe is me.