seiously it seems that leveling in this game is only needed to be done to either exp slightly diff enemies and aquire diff looking armor...but in reality there relative power remains mostly the same.

i have a friend whose archmage of the college at level 2...cuz he realized early on tehre was no real incentive to levelign save maybe some diff spells and armor.

i did the opposite, console commanded me to level 60 and proceeded to have fights with "tougher" enemies.

in most games this would feel like cheating or just broken, in skyrim it just feels like meh...a tleast i don thave to go thru with the ugly armors i didnt want now.

I dont think there is much sense of progression in this game, if i can start out and feel just as powerful as when i end...but cooler...why bother with the beginning leveled crap and not just console level up?


tho i admit most perks are...well...boring. 100% more damage, 60% better sneaking, 35% more poweful enchants blah d blah d blah. thought skill was supposed to determine there potency? why cant perks be something in addition to instead of more of the same.

shield bashing is a interesting addition, the roll in stealth while questionable in terms of usefulness is nifty.but passive % modifiers are boring.

I did in my first save. My current one, it happens when it happens, and is convenient.

Not really, if i reach a new level, the enemies become weaker and weaker.....

In a way I do in TES, leveling becomes more addictive with each level you progress. That's why I love Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest.

Yes because I like making progress and I love getting new perks to try when I level. To me its making progress in the game and part I like about RPGs.

Hope the official DLCs add new, exciting perks for us to try

this is the problem. because the very thought of a restriction or challenge is reprehensible to the TES series now apparently, everywhere and everything must be approachable from level 1, which just means leveling is pointless. some areas have a higher base level, but there is no progression to difficulty, just randomness. higher level ores arent found in more dangerous/hidden places, better alchemy ingredients arent any harder to find (and you dont even know what they are without comparing specific recipes). there are no higher level areas, the level of dungeons are unknown to you, skill ups do next to nothing and are mostly just a pre-requisite for perks.

the only reason to level is to get a few interesting perks whose novelty wears off fast.

What you describe is common to nearly every RPG I've ever played. Whether the game is linear or non-linear the effect is the same: the character gets stronger and so do the enemies.

I'd level just to get the perks such as.. zero weight for heavy armor, eagle eye for archery.. etc.
I disliked the fact that some old enemies like.. skeletons and draugrs become weaker as I level up. (well, except draugr deathlords.. etc)

i don't care about lvls at all, but i do care about skillpoints

so no chance to avoid lvling

I don't even remember what level my character is.

I don't care about levelling per se, I care about telling my character's story.

No not really, I do level and plan how perks will be spent etc but I just sort of let it happen as I go, annoys a friend of mine who keeps trying to compete with me on what level he is.

and can be a problem in some games too.

my comment isnt so much on enemies getting stronger, its enemies getting stronger while feeling pretty much the same as low level enemies...just bigger health pools and more damage.

what really kills my sense of progression is how they do the levelups. the skillpoints seem to be nothing more then a way to monitor your levels progress, no longer are they important of themselves...everything important from a level comes from perks. of which most are boring passive effects.

onehand 100% more damage for 5 perks...yay? why not have damage tied to the skill level and have perks provide something interesting? something visually noticeable? bethesdas approach to "talent trees" is archaic at best. id rather get new tools (archery zoom, stealth roll, twohand hit more then one enemy) then oh look...your harder to spot, you hit harder...etc

sneaks sneakiness should be determined by skill, weapon damage...by skill. hte perks should provide gameplay changing mechanics.

to a extent every game has these boring modifiers, but they at least make more of a effort for something to seperate your char. in deus ex i made a char taht didnt fit any of the "concepts" given for the game (gunplay, stealth, non combat etc) and it worked well.

I think there is a ton of potential in this game...but a lo tof it is wasted. hopefully mods address this.

I just play the game, and let the skill and level ups come as they come. It's how this game is meant to be played.

I miss the atrributes from older TES games, but not the micro management.

I agree with this. Personally, I am ambivalent about perks. I have this feeling that in their heart of hearts what Bethesda would like to do is make an entirely skill-based game. They think they need to throw a bone to players who like the old D+D-style level-up menus where one manually assigns points. But Bethesda, bless them, just doesn't have a "feel" for that kind of system, they never have. Whether it's assigning bonus points to Attributes or assigning perk points, whatever manual point-assigning system they come up with feels clumsy and unsatisfying. I would love for them to just go with their instincts and create a completely skill-based game. I think such a system would be a real winner.

Skyrim is a roleplaying game, and a crucial part of roleplaying games is character development.

So yes, I care about leveling.

Leveling skills, sure. Although it would be nice if skill had more impact, vs. perks or player ability (e.g. lock picking).
I am not a fan of items and creatures becoming available only at certain levels, but I deal with it. OOO for Oblivion addressed this issue nicely.
Of course, I do agree that character development and growth throughout the game is important.

I blame the level scaling. I mean, how great would it be if you entered a ruin and faced a completely "immortal" dragonpriest or something like that. You would just have to run for your life.
The way everything scales nothing becomes a challenge. The only real challenge I'm having in this game is with the high level mages, especially the briarhearts for some reason, and I play on master without abusing anything.
So yes, leveling is pretty much pointless now. The only reason would be to get more perks.

Do what you want. I personally like levelling to gain that new perk...

I would prefer to have more areas that are at a high fixed level of difficulty that you have to work towards. As it stands i could probably do the whole main quest and not exceed a few levels. If rather know that there's lawful and lawless areas and the stronger I get the further out I can go.

In real life I can buy a bass boat. I can go in fresh water or in the intracoastal. A sport fisher can get me onto the open ocean. A stronger cruiser can see me crossing the ocean. My skill and ship determine where I can go but there's plenty to do even in a bass boat. But when I'm bored with it and have skills, the high seas await.

It would be silly to sail the Atlantic in my bass boat first thinf but then encounter scaled force ten gales on the duck pond because I'm now a level 50 master sailor.

What i could see is setting a minimum difficulty for a tough dungeon and scaling from there if the player comes in overpowered. One death lord minimum, keep adding for every 5 levels above he is.

For me it's a two part trip. On master, the beginning and early mids (15-30) can be very challenging unless you focus on combat skills. So here I am a bit focused on how I level, just in order to stay alive. But after that in the late mids (30-50) leveling completely stops unless I start using other skills, which is something I feel I have to do in order to not become over powered (wrt the bar levels). I want a hard game, but apparently only combat is affected by difficulty - if he utility categories are even easier (no perks spent and I'm not missing them) than they currently are at master, it'd just be silly.

Point is that the combat skills feels absolutely required on this difficulty level, whereas I feel little to no penalties for not spending perks on utility skills. Why would I want "can't trigger pressure plates", when the traps doesn't harm me at all anymore at this level? Why do I need speechcraft when it skills up by itself giving me the advantages (persuade etc) without perking it, and money is really not an issue anymore at this stage?

outside of caring about perk points no i dont care about leveling at all, everything scales to your level so no matter what level you are the game will still be just as difficult as anyways with rare exceptions. so it really doesnt make much impact beyond your available skill arsenal.

This

I love the sense of progress in any RPG I play its a sense of progression.

With the expansion, I want more levels and new perks too.

I just play and have fun. Leveling is just a side benefit.

level scaling is really bad it's so bad that some skills make you OP (smithing enchanting) if you get them at early levels and some skills get UP (destruction, conjuration) if you get them at high levels also shouts become useless at high levels I think the worst part is the UP skills force you to not level it's pretty horrible that you can't level in an rpg