I need DarnUI.

Same as yours. I found the exploring was a waste of time early game, only started to pay off later in the game once I reached the outskirts of Vegas. FO3 first impression was mind blowing in comparison to Vegas which was unerwhelming. I was exited about having a new land to explore (don't recall developers saying the game would no longer be a sand box game) weopon mods, survival skill had me drooling only to be disapointed with these new features... do I pump points into survival and sacrifice my character build to be able to actually use the survival skill? thankfully I spotted the recipee requirements just didn't pay off in terms benefits or value of the finished product and didn't use that skill

But as lots and lots of people have said (inlcuding myself), this game has a different focus. After taking a deep breath and trying to put 40 hrs of wasted exploring behind me I got stuck into the main quest and I am enjoying the game lots now.

Haha, in my opinion only, Vegas doesn't offer the same rewards you get for putting in time and effort exploring, whether its a set location for a bobblehead, skill book, weopon schematic, unique weopon or unique armor, or even a new location for a random encounter. Vegas just doesn't have this. Vegas also attempts to control where you can go at start by putting in cliffs and invisible barriers and entire families of armored giant criters which at low levels you have no hope of getting past.

I think more honest marketing would have avoided the disapointment or would have managed the high expectations and allowed me to focus more on the good things that would come with the game right at the start. I expect this would have provided me with a better feel good factor at the start of the game, instead of waiting until I'm 40+ odd hrs in!

I too was hoping for something that combined great open exploring gameplay with a great story line and NPC interaction, I don't think this is too much to hope for. Hole in the market if any other game devs are reading.... !

c'mon, thats hyperbole, and you know it. there are lots of unique items and skill books most of them hidden in vaults, caves, etc.
there's just less of it than in fallout 3.
fnv puts more emphasis on merchants. there are actually things you have to buy(like mods or impants or certain weapons), if you want them, while as in fallout 3 everything of worth could be found in the game world, rendering merchants pretty much useless.
in a certain way fnv just caters less to the inner collector in all of us. i've said it in different thread already, fallout 3 was the better 1st person diablo sandbox game(i don't mean that in a negative way), while fnv follows a more traditional route with a bigger variety of rpg elements.
just as an example, you can spend hours questing in freeside without any use of force, something impossible in fallout 3, where in 95% of the quests the only alternative to fighting was sneaking around.

It is quite hard to find ammo in Wasteland when you have none. Even in F3 you need to deal with merchants if you are not a Jack-of-All-Trades

When i saw the openning cutscene, I guessed this game would possibly be the best Fallout.

I was close to right, But FO2 beats everygame.

Sometimes.

I like New Vegas better than Fallout 3 and I really, really enjoyed Fallout 3.

I dont see how this game isn't sandbox, to me it still seems really sandbox.

uh... FNV has all of those except maybe the hidden radio signals lol

then you did it wrong. in my fo3 endgame saves, my pc sits on 6000 rounds of 5.56, 7000 rounds of ecp, 1000 alien power cells, 3000 alien power modules, 500 rockets, 80 mini nukes, etc
ammo is plentiful in fo3, every location offers way more ammo than you need to clear it

My first impression was "Wow this really feels like Fallout 2 and looks like Fallout 3, I love it." The more I played it the more I wanted to visit places like the Hub and Shady Sands in the new Fallout style (1st/3rd person open world). I hope some of the DLC takes us back to some of those old places.

Which is why NV is better, You actually have to scavenge.

Or just kill people..

BUT THATS NOT THE POINT.

I agree with you. Something is missing that has killed my desire to explore. I find myself opting out of it because I've been burned by too many empty map markers or abandon shacks.

However... before I incure the wrath of those here and I'm told that my personal opinion is wrong and blasphemous, let me say I do love the game, just not for all of the same reasons I love FO3. I'm also different because I actually enjoyed FO3 far more than Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics. (I just heard heads explode)

To address the topic better, though, my first impression was not good due to several already stated reasons. After about 20 hours of play though, I'm really happy with it, am very pleased I bought it, and would recommend it to anyone. The writing is really great and despite the bugs, the execution is good too.

Feels like home

First?
- "Let's go north to new vegas."
*runs into a dozen giant radscorpions.
- "Oh [censored] oh [censored] oh [censored] oh [censored] oh [censored] ME GET AWAY FROM ME!!!"
*dies*
/reloads
- "Wow... Awesome!"

Second?
- "So a laser pistol huh? Well I guess I'll help her kill the gecko's"
*shoots at gecko's with laser pistol*
- "OH MY GOD IT svckS!"
*uses varmint rifle until I got Incinerator in Primm*

Third?
*Helps powder gangers with all quests*
- "Man I really like this reputation system."
*Finds to hostile powder gangers at my current home, Jean Sky Diving*
*Kills them*
/Reputation with Powder Gangers went to Vilified
- ".... God [censored] damnit!"

Fourth?
*finds Primm*
- "NCR huh? Well I'm gonna join Legion so I guess I'll just kill them*
*Shoots NCR soldier*
*NCR soldier retaliates with blasting me full of lead*
- "...... Man I love this!!!"

Then I don't remember much else of my first couple of hours in the game.

I think that's a fair thing to say. Bethesda games include quests as a means to drag the player through the game world. Obsidian and Bioware use game worlds as a stage on which the players can act out the quests. Those who prefer Bethesda's approach will always feel slightly frustrated by games like those by Obsidian and Bioware because there's a slightly artificial feeling to the world, as though it's a set rather than a place. To those who prefer the other style, any game where they build the place first and then decide how to entertain the player there might naturally prove frustrating since the game-world, rather than quest design, was always foremost in the developers' minds.

There's no reason why both companies can't do both well, and to a large extent they do, and to a greater extent, all the leading RPG companies are improving in all areas. For example, I thought Fallout 3 had the strongest quest-writing yet in a Bethesda game, and Mass Effect 2 was certainly an exponential improvement on any previous Bioware game when it came to world-building. I'm just not sure that we're ever going to see a perfect game that does everything equally well in every way.

If we're in a position where one type of player enjoys Fallout 3 but prefers New Vegas, and another type of player enjoys New Vegas but prefers Fallout 3, I think that speaks volumes about the quality of both games, and makes us very happy players.

"This feels right ~considering."

Bingo! At times the ambient music in NV brings me right back to FO/FO2.

So after playing through New Vegas for the first time ending with the NCR,with an 80 hour save I find myself reinstalling Fo3. I think one of the main reasons why, the atmosphere. Fo3 was dark and gritty and mostly urban setting and some decent 50's flavor. That mixed with some nice mods for interiors and lighting effects I found it a much more immerse post apocalyptic environment. New Vegas seemed too alive for me, too many npcs doing nothing too much wide open spaces and brightness. New Vegas and Free side was pretty much the only urban setting, I really enjoyed those parts of the game. The open waste with it being mostly desert seemed off, more like Oblivion I guess. Not to mention all the power armor was very out of place in this western heavy new Vegas. I enjoyed the new story, the faction system, the crafting, hardcoe mode, different ammo types, and yes more npc out in the waste with you. That being said 90% of that can be found in the Modding community for Fo3. I understand that New Vegas was the return to the roots of the game. Fo1 and Fo2 were in the western deserts I understand that. I just think that world they built in Fo3 was more complete more immerse and a more compelling world. Fo3 felt like the world had ended and everyone you met was a meal away from death, where as New Vegas seem comfortable and the troubles and pearls seemed trivial in a day to day way. TWasn't about surviving with what ever you could find, it was about power and war true to fo1 and fo2. The only one surviving was ther player who had to hunt and eat food drink water. Every other NPC just went to the corner store or crop shares. I just miss mowing down super mutties in my 45D and not saying "I feel like I need to be in a Duster to fit the rest fo the game."

Just my 2 cents

The invisble walls I understand being frustrating. What I don't get is ppl wanting to be "God of the Wasteland" as soon as they leave Doc Mitchell's house. That's just me, I guess. But, man, does it feel really satisfying to come back and one shot something that would have previously mopped the floor with me. And except for the invisible barriers hindering you, you can pretty much venture wherever you want from the beginning, you just have to be willing to accept the consequences of your actions (death, dismemberment, death by dismemberment, etc.). It feels soooo much more RPG to me. I hated the fact that enemies were scaled in FO:3. Hopefully Bethesda does away with that feature permanently in future Fallout endeavors as well as Elder Scrolls.

That's not at all what he is saying. It's not about being a God of the Wasteland as soon as you start, because in FO3 you could die quite easily right off the bat too. The difference was that you had a fighting chance, it wasn't a colony of Deathclaws that you would have to face if you walked 500 yards away from the start point which are essentially animated invisible walls carrying reload screens with them. The desire is not to be able to run over anything you want from level one, it's the desire to walk in whichever direction you want when you start and play the game differently, find different things, start different quests and meet different people depending on what you chose. If I walked straight to Big Town and tried to take on the Supermutants by the truck out there, or by the Church, or at German Town they would eat me immediately ... the difference is that their placement didn't block off a whole portion of the map. Having to go counterclockwise around the map every single game with every character and do the same quests in basically the same order until I get to Novak (and can finally get a place to store my stuff) hurts replayability a lot. It's akin to the long Vault starting sequence from FO3 except much longer and with more illusion of openess that you can't wait to just get past so you can start the game finally.

Basically it's just an acknowledgement that this isn't as open as FO3 was in some ways. It's not a game killer because the writing makes up for it.



You're just agreeing that you cannot travel anywhere you want from the beginning.

The only thing that bothers me is the way that they changed the third person camera. You can't zoom out like you could in Fallout 3, which means that I have to play in first person all of the time unless I want the screen filed with my character's backside. Or am I missing something?

No, they did limit the 3rd person camera. The very first mod I downloaded was one that allowed you to zoom out more like in the previous game.

Oblivion is one of my favourite games of all time. I played that before I played Morrowind. When I played Morrowind (why the heck do I keep typing Morrowing, stupid terminals!) I thought wow this game just feels 1000 times better. I couldn't explain why, it doesn't look as good and some of the mechanics are kind of crazy. It was just different somehow.

Fallout 3 was the first game in the series I played. I had absolutely no plans on picking up New Vegas but of course I got it about 3 hours after the pre-order specials. When I first started playing it I had that old feeling from Morrowind back again. It wasn't as strong but it was there. I can't explain why but this game just feels so much better than 3. Now I really want to go back and play 1 and 2.

I must say, I like a lot of the new gameplay features and weapons that are in FNV. Especially the faction reputation. Awesome addition.

But I have to say i agree with the op as far as the "feel" of the game. The impact of seeing Washington DC destroyed by nuclear war was immense. And then having to explore though those ruins was even more emotional. And the fact that those building were actual real places, capitol, wash monument, all the buildings an museums aroung t he mall. That was awesome and really impacted me.

FNV doesn't do that for me. I love going to Vegas in RL and was very excited when i heard the next FO would take place there but i was very disappointed in how the vegas strip was presented. None of the locations are actual locations. All are made up fictional casino's. Doesn;t feel like vegas at all to me so really there was no emotional impact for me.

So gameplay goes to FNV but for setting and impact i have to give the nod to FO3

That Fallout 3 is less of a Fallout game than Fallout: New Vegas.

Well put. :thumbsup:

I just think that if Obsidian had as much time as Bethesda did, Obsidian could have crafted a better world. Would it be better than Fallout 3's? I don't know, but it would certainly be better than what we have now. But, at it's current state, the map in New Vegas is good enough.