too hard to ignore? you mean like trying to pick up the alien blaster without getting svcked up into a spaceship?
BTW: it's unfortunate, it is a typo, it was supposed to read Barrettsfloyd but i am stuck with the name now and can't seem to get it changed. Oh well.

:rofl:

Even if he asks you your favorite color?

Show me the this context that makes it Alien as in ET? It is just an opinion that it means that. Just like mine is an opinion that it means strange unknown not of the norm but not ET alien.

That UFO was a "special encounter" a joke. Alien blasters Easter Eggs

Encounter, you come across an enclave, super mutant or mobsters that try to kill you. "Special encounter" you come across them drinking tea and playing with dollies. Or a crashed federation shuttle with dead red shirts all around. They are jokes if you take them for canon then everything from star trek to godzilla are canon and they should not be.

Personally, I think the aliens fit the FO setting very well. I never took Fallout as a serious game series. Come on people, it's meant to be a little silly sometimes! Super-mutants, ghouls, mirelurks, etc., I think aliens are an intergral part of the 50's view of the future; and Bethesda added them very tastefully into the series I think. I, for one, hope to see more of our little green friends, despite what the naysayers think.

Also, I understand that Fallout has SOME seriousness in it, but I still think you can work around with aliens.

Perhaps as some kind of Elvis android...or a clone made from his DNA...and he doesn't know that he's not the real Elvis...and can join you as a companion. Hmm...Las Vegas...I'm thinking this could actually happen. After all, I did predict a giant robot under the Pentagon months before any Liberty Prime info was released. I think that Bethesda is secretly using me as a playtester and then wiping my memory afterward. :blink:


Oh, it's not that I think the series should be serious...just not quite so in-your-face silly. The aliens were fun when they were mysterious. If kept that way I wouldn't mind more subtle references to alien activity. I just think that full-on alien abduction and battle on their ship was taking things a little too far. I liked MZ...I just thought it was too far for the setting. I also think that mutant animals are ok, but I draw the line at http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2008/07/17/sp-crazycrab18_p_421889648.jpg. I swear I saw one of those guys with his mask off smoking a cigarette behind Rivet City when he thought nobody was looking...

Elvis clone companion....I would adore that.

well I don't like mothership zeta I am not dumping on your view. You have good points about them being part of 1950's culture. That is why the makers of fallout 1 and 2 added aliens as easter eggs. special enounters because they did not fit into fallout universe that is so rich with other things.

I hope we don't see another mothership Zeta. If Bethesda says they are canon then find it will be a big mistake on their part half the people seem to hate any aliens, another 25% only want them as aliens as easter eggs and dead. Nothing on the scale of mothership zate. They can do all that they own the rights but what I am against is them using fallout 1/2 easter eggs special encounters as the grounds to do so.

Aliens starting the great war is Very bad. Humans started it watch fallout 2's intro all the reasons are given for what happened.

Id'e actually agree with that; I don't really want another mother ship Zeta, but a special encounter and maybe a quest would be cool.

Aliens are canon. They had their own DLC, a major point in the story (if I am not mistaken), and have not been declared non-canon by the devs. They are canon, get over it.

Now, I am out of this thread before it becomes a pit of fire.

Aliens are canon. They had their own DLC, a major point in the story (if I am not mistaken), and have not been declared non-canon by the devs. They are canon, get over it.

Now, I am out of this thread before it becomes a pit of fire.

They have their own DLC yes, Like I said Bethesda has the rights to do what they want now they own the rights. If they want the aliens in fallout 3 to be canon then fine. I hate it but fine I don't own the rights. I am against them using fallout 1 and 2 as the reasons for having them in fallout 3.

Aliens in fallout 1 and 2 are "special encounters" The games have lots of normal encounters but those are you just running into bad guys. Special encounter are you running into easter eggs.

If Beth wants aliens they can have them. They can't say they have alway been because they have not.

Indeed. They did take aliens to a whole new level compared to the other games. It was poorly executed, although still entertaining.

Yes... if you think Aliens are canon because it appeared in Fallout 1 and 2 so are Godzilla, Doctor Who, Star Trek, King Arthur, and all others.


But if you think because Beth made it canon, even the great Ausir can't argue with ya

Perhaps "alien blaster" means a gun to..blast aliens with? :rolleyes:

Ugh. Another one of these. Who even cares anymore? This is all academic, at best, anyway. I'm still a little curious as to why it matters enough to some people that this topic keeps popping up? Is it really going to ruin your playthrough if I've decided not to buy Mothership Zeta because I don't particularly want a bunch of aliens mucking about in my post-apocalyptic videogame? I consider aliens in Fallout 1 and 2 to have been nothing more than one of the plethora of little side-jokes that litter those games (Fallout 2 more than Fallout 1...)

I simply feel that implementing aliens in any major way (and that's the only situation in which "canon" has any relevence, to begin with,) thematically takes away from a game that I think is at it's best when it's telling the story of the tragic plight of humanity and their own self-destruction. Adding little green men shifts the focus away from that, and colors the franchise with something more along the lines of Buck Rogers (which is fun enough on it's own, but not something I particularly want combined with the Fallout universe.) This is the end of the world we're talking about - it's focused on the human cost of that. Why do I need a bunch of aliens running around to take away from that story?

To be clear, I didn't have any problem with the crashed alien spaceship in Fallout 3. It's a one-off encounter, it's done well, and it doesn't insist upon itself throughout the rest of the game. But I don't want to start seeing aliens playing major roles in Fallout. Others are going to feel differently, and that's their perogative - I'm not going to try and convince someone that their opinion on the matter is wrong. But the fact remains that no amount of discussion is going to convince me that aliens "belong" in Fallout to any greater degree than the very, very minor role they already play. Even if (hypothetically) someone could bring up some facts that could convince me that aliens have always been an intrinsic part of the Fallout experience, I'd still feel that it wasn't the correct thematic decision.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and I'll let everyone else get on with their debate, here. All these "canon" discussions (in a game that's supposed to be about the player's choices, and how they choose to interact with the game world,) never seem to accomplish very much, that I can see. I don't like aliens in my Fallout, and that's all there is to it. But I'm not going to try and convince everyone that my way of thinking is the only proper one.

^^^THIS^^^

Another Bubba Ho-tep... They never really go around to cloning correctly without them ending up psychotic. Elvis's Brain in a brainbot I could see as some sort of secret super soldier/morale thing

By "too hard to ignore" I meant in the context of the actual games and not the DLC. I didn't play MZ and I don't intend to--because I felt it was a misstep. As for the other comment, I didn't notice any misspelling--I was merely agreeing that I like Syd's Floyd better too!



Eh. The argument is more about "what was canon before MZ" than "what is canon because of MZ". I think most people who are upset about the alien thing are more upset about what I wrote about in my first post in this thread than necessarily whether or not they are canon before or after. The whole canon thing really is simple: they weren't really canon originally but I guess they are now. The major sore-spot in many fans minds comes from the shift in focus going from "small winks and nods" to "totally in your face and changing the idea behind the nuclear war". If it's not a big deal to you, it ain't, right? If it is something you care about though--I think it is a pretty big deal as it marks a major shift in the focus of the philosophy of human responsibility. If I care it's because of this reason. I'm like a post-apoc beatnik/hippie/punk that way. Don't put the blame on the outside when you know it starts from within. :mohawk:

Edit:



Yeah. Heh. I said this on page one, but yes--this is exactly my point.

Amen to this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Personally I had always thought that Beth did say somewhere that MZ was simply a nod to the whole Alien thing from FO1 and FO2, not nessecarily canon, but I cant remember the source so thats irrelevant. But oh well, this is just like how some people dispute Fallout: Tactics (whole game or just sections) from being canon, it really is up to the individual in the end.

I just wonder why you think that Aliens started the Great War when it was the Chinese who launched first. President Richardson said it himself thus the recording of the aliens trying to get the launch codes would be somewhat moot IMO. They could in fact want access to the codes and change them so that they can't be used.

Edit: I.e. humans use the nukes against the aliens when they invade

I definitely don't have a problem with aliens being canon. They fit the retro future style.

I haven't played MZ, but from what I've read on these forums, all that is implied is that the aliens attempted to mind read some launch codes. That's not the same thing as saying the aliens started the war. Launch codes don't work like a remote control for missiles. You send the coded message to the guys operating the missile silo, they get out the code book to see what the orders are, and if radio confirmation is available (and there's no reason to assume it wouldn't be) they're going to ask for confirmation.

Furthermore, it really doesn't matter if they tricked humans into starting it, because it wouldn't have worked without the same cold war paranoia that we already know caused the war.

To my recollection there is no clear cut answer to whether it was the US or China who started. Of course Richardson will say it was the chinese who started, as being a patriot he's not going to admit otherwise even if it was the case.

And would someone enlighten me, what is it about aliens that they have to be stuffed in, even if they don't belong (as in, not fitting in the context of the setting as they are an outside element and thus mere/unnecessery fillercontent - plus, I think they are extremely lame and overused in games today anyway)?

Well I think with Fallout, it was because during the 50s-60s era there was a large amount of alien/UFO superstition. Not so sure though.

Yeah, that's true I recon. But it doesn't really answer to what is this huge appeal to aliens that they have to be canon and included and what not.

I'm fine with well written small stuff that leaves the actual aliens in a cloud mystery. But otherwise they're just cheap and unnecessery distraction.

For the record, I don't even have a problem with Mothership Zeta. It's DLC, after all. I've decided not to buy it, and I figure you're allowed to have a little fun with the DLC if you want. It's my understanding that Bethesda thought they'd have fun designing, and I won't begrudge them that. As far as I'm concerned, there's a world of difference between something that occurs in the core game, and something that happens in DLC. It's like Oblivion's vaunted Horse Armor DLC - you're not "missing" anything if you decide you don't want to pay for something like that, but it's there in case that's something you really wanted to have.

And sure, little green men are a part of 50's pulp sci-fi. But I think there's a difference between having aliens as a major story point, and allowing them to maintain an aura of mystery. Let's say there's an explorable Area 51 in Fallout: New Vegas, for example. I think it might be cool if you went in there and found some videos of an alien autopsy, and maybe some alien skeletons, or some poor little green man preserved in a jar. But I'd be a little bit upset if they were to go too far and take away all of the mystery surrounding their presence. It's like the X-Files, which I always thought was a more interesting show before the last few seasons where they started blowing the lid off all the conspiracies. Or the Roswell Incident, which in reality is probably a lot less interesting a story if the "truth" were revealed.

Also, you know why I'll consider Aliens to have been "canon" in Fallout 1? Because it wasn't until something like my second or third playthrough of that game before I even encountered that crashed alien spaceship. For "canon" to have any meaning as it relates to videogames, it can only refer to that which has to have taken place. (ie, it's "canon" that in Fallout 1 Tandi lived, and that you got the good ending for Arroyo - because those two things have to happen in order for NCR to be around in Fallout 2. It's "canon" that in Fallout 3 there's a town called Megaton, but "canon" isn't particularly concerned with whether or not it got blown to bits - unless in Fallout 4 there ends up being a crater where it's supposed to be, etc.)

And the alien special encounter that started this whole gorramn thing is something that's not even guaranteed to occur while you're playing Fallout 1...

(And the whole "aliens tricked humanity into destroying themselves" theory is something I'd really have a problem with, were it true. Because that ties back into the whole thematic consistency argument again. The post-apocalypse is about humanity's hubris, and us being the deliverer of our own destruction. To have aliens behind the whole plot completely changes what the entire setting is all about. It would turn the franchise from Mad Max into something more like Battlefield: Earth - and I don't think anyone wants that to happen... )