its gameplay, they want you to be who you want to be, by lore, there should also be the odd talented two handed argonian here and there that could destroy most orcs easily and vise-versa. Remember your the Dragon-born also

Dragonborn means you can absorb souls which lets you use Shouts easier without training.

It does not mean you are Superman.

True, but it is a difference, and it have saved my ass a couple of times.

Yes, it is a difference, but not a good enough one because it's the only thing that separates an Orc as a "better" Warrior than a High Elf.

The races haven't been that much different in previous TES, either. I don't see why your complaining unless you've been for the past 10 years.

I love how people put up "Well you are Dragonborn" as a justification for some type of imbalance.

High Elves got 100 Magicka bonus in Oblivion.

And could pick birth signs.

At the very, very least, at least High Elves got double to basic bonus they do now.


Usually happens when you have no logical argument.

That's why i play a khajiit. Unlimited night vision!

...Though you need mods to make everything darker for that be useful in the first place...

Hey, another example of great balance!

I like the way the races are. No matter what race you are, you can be anything. I can play as a Bosmer, and be a heavy warrior, or an Altmer as an archer.

Yes, so we're all just playing Hawke from Dragon Age II.

Not exactly, Hawke is a [censored], and besides we have way more choises when it comes to both looks and playstyles.

Really... Hawke is a [insert expletive]? That's your defense? And more choices on looks? Really?

We have more choices on play styles... and every one can be the exact same quality for every play style no matter what race you pick.

Which is exactly how Dragon Age II worked. You could always be the exact same quality no matter what you took, because there was only one character; Hawke.

In Skyrim, since all the races have very little significant difference between them, they might as well all be the same character.

Well there are many reasons why I don't like Hawke one of them is that he killed a good franchise, and yes you have more choises on looks, Hawke was a rather generic human and no matter what you did you could clearly see the original hawke underneath all the changes. And on the quality of play styles I think we will have to agree to disagree, I think that an orc warrior is way more enjoyable that a Breton warrior.
And no we may not all be the same character because that would be incredibly boring.

What's wrong with that? I know in Oblivion and Skyrim, I pick my races based on looks. The racial bonuses certainly don't matter much - the activated ones, you forget about and never use (like the Dark Elf summon ancestor in OB), and the stat/skill ones mean nothing in the long run.


And honestly, unless the racial stats included some major penalties (like the Altmer resistance penalties in OB; lucky they're ugly as heck), the bonuses wouldn't really matter even if major. I'd still pick races based on what I'd like the character to look like / be, not based on what special rules they might have.

Awesome, so now races are just choosing between black socks or white socks. Love the depth there.


What's the damage difference between a Breton Warrior and an Orc Warrior when they are specced the same, with the same gear, and you've already used your once a day?

Not any less than before...

I didn't say that, minor things like that aren't a big deal.

8%. Nords and Orcs deal 8% more damage than other races when they have max Weight setting. They're also more stagger resistant, and dish out more staggers.

If Co-Op/PvP was present in Skyrim, i think you'd see the major difference in races. An Altmer Mage goes up against a Breton Mage, and they begin blasting each other. The Breton Mage is taking less damage than the Altmer Mage. When the Altmer Mage runs low on Magicka, he pops Highborn for 10x Magicka Regen, and begins to cast again. The Breton pops Dragonskin, and begins to not only take even less damage from the Altmer's spells, but is also being fed magicka by the Altmer's spells, even when the Breton is holding a charged spell, while the Altmer's Magicka ceases to regenerate when he's holding a charged spell. Each time the Altmer hits the Breton with a spell, the Breton is like "MOAR! FEED ME MOAR!" while each spell the Breton hit's the Altmer with, the Altmer practically crumples under the debilitating damage, until he finally erupts into a blazing inferno and becomes a pile of ash, leaving the Breton victorious, in large part because of his racials.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Races

there everyone, now you can see they are different

the have different hights, apearence, passive or active racial powers, skill bonuses, NPC interactions, countries of origin, beliefs, social structures, etc.

the differences are enough that you would play a race on preference instead of abilities, but if you really wanted to get the most out of a certain playstyle the option for that is there too.

Skyrim, more than other games in the series has been a do whatever you want game. with the removal of Atributes and birthsign most people have seen this as a bad thing. however all it has done as allowed your character to go from swinging an axe to casting spells if he/she so chooses. you dont have to if you dont want to, most people here tend to make a character for one style. say a khajiit thief that only sneaks, wears light armor, and uses daggers. its awsome, it all works with each other nicely. the player was not forced to play that style because of attribute points, skill points, racial bonuses or restrictions, birthsigns, etc. they choose too.

its all about choice, as it should be.

Through use of what exactly?


Height is meaningless. Appearance is cosmetic. Culture, also cosmetic. So let's get down to what matters in gameplay, in the PvE environment that Skyrim gives us.

Let's start with Skill bonuses. The difference in Skill levels at creation can be negated by normal play and time. An Orc eventually hits 100 in Two-Handed Weapons, as can a High Elf. So there's no difference there.

Racial traits... again, all of which can be negated by normal play and time. Dark Elves have 50% Fire Resist, all other races can enchant or purchase an item, or take a potion, that has the exact same effect.

Racial abilities are once a day. So... for 60 seconds once every day there is an actual real difference. Awesome.

Yes, it should be about choice... because those choices should have weight to them. If a High Elf can be on the exact same level as an Orc in terms of Warrior prowess, where is the weight behind choosing an Orc over a High Elf or vice versa other than simply cosmetic?

I have a problem with that. If they are close in the begining that IS NOT good. For Role Playing purposes it makes choosing a race not even a choice. Why even bother playing an Argonian or a Khajitt or a Wood Elf when I can be just a good thief with an Orc or an Imperial or a Breton or a Nord or a Redguard? Why bother playing any of those races when I can be just as good a heavy armor warrior with an Argonian, a Khajitt or a Wood Elf?

If there are no differences between the races in the beginning, so you have to make a CHOICE, than the Role Playing aspect of the game has been severly diminished.

Sarcastic Lady Hawke is the funniest character i've ever played A bit of [censored] on occasion, yes, but still mostly funny

I really need to replay that game sometime soon.

On topic, having certain races start out with some perks or spells would make an initial difference even without stats.

What other differences can there possibly be?! Of course an Orc could be a Mage just as well as a high of - that's like saying an Australian can't drive an American car. True, it'd be difficult at first (American steering wheels are on the other side to Australia) but in the end an Australian could be a better driver than an American. But an initial bonus makes a big difference.
Then you have racial powers - they can help A LOT in tough battles. My Breton would have did had he not used his ability to absorb hostile spells in a battle against a powerful Mage. Natural resistances - a Nord is a lot better in a fight against a Frost Dragon than any other race. And then there's the 'cosmetic' things, which make a huge difference - it's what defines a race, not only in TES but in any other game. Not to mention all of the amazing lore behind them.

So ... What other differences could there be?

The issue is that you need to balance out the capablities of each race so that player's aren't penalized (terribly) for choosing a race yet have noticable strengths, or sacrifice the whole concept of a player can do whatever they want.

If the divide was big enough (as some people want,) ONLY Nords, Redugards, and Orcs would be warriors, ONLY Bretons and High Elves would be mages, and ONLY Wood Elves and Khajiit will be theif-like, while Dark Elves, Imperials, and Argonians would be close to jack-of-all trades, but unable to meet any of the other 7 in any specific role.

Is that a game you want to play? Where your race determines what role you can play for the rest of the game, and if you deviate from it, you'll effectively be unable to beat the game?