well since this is a game and equipment is not based on actual statistic's all that much on rl stuff and as ppl shouldn't be worried about double-triple penetration....-.-; just pull out the fat man and call it a day!

I would really like a place that reloads ammo since that is an issue at times. Then ammo prices will be lower, and it adds to the realism.

Sounds like you've been playing some bioshock. While the FMJ and Hollow Point sound good (maybe even ones with radscorpion poison inside), incidenary or electrical etc... sound too out of place for me.

Hehe. More like "Lukvarmt" No idea what it means though. I only know the expression

.45 ACP (thompson and M1911)

eh it?s ammo types, not calibres.


Anyway back OT, I prefer they keep it simple if they have a ammo type system, variety is good but when I spend more time staring at my inventory balancing numbers then I spend shooting my guns, something is wrong.

for bullet based guns (aka everything from pistols to rifles)

AP= targets armour counts as having lower Damage Resistance and Damage Threshold when calculating damage, slightly lower base damage since the bullets doesn?t convey as much energy into the body of the target.

Standard= just like it says on the label, no ups or down.

Anti Personnel= mirror opposite to AP, targets armour counts as having higher DR and DT for calculating damage, basic damage is increased tho.

for shotguns

Standard= the same pellet shots we seen before, short range but spreading to hit target better.

Slug= one solid slug, higher base damage but just one single shot thus requiring better accuracy.

there, simple, to the point without being overly complicating and confusing to those people who don?t go nerdy over a copy of guns & ammo.

man...are we really going to get this far into gun geek territory?

you guys forgot Total Metal Jacket (completely encased in copper vs. FMJ almost completely encased)

not to mention tungsten armor piercing rounds...or wadcutters....



personally...i'm perfectly fine with one ammunition type per weapon... just because it exists in the real world, doesn't mean it will make a game any more fun to play...

Your list seems good to me, but on a somewhat similar note, I want a 7.62 Assault rifle!

FMJ, hollow point, an incendiary for slug-throwers. Maybe some thermobaric missiles to make the launcher more interesting.

Ugh.. guys please no. This isnt Bioshock, no offense I just relly think these ammo types make the game silly.

liquid nitrogen for the flamer.(oh the irony)
shredder rounds (fictional) on impact on a enemy the bullet shreds around and messes up everythin in that limb

Bullets actually do shred into bits on impact. Well, certain ones are made to, but l think a lot tend to shatter on impact.

hollow points? anyways 50 cals pistol and sniper baretta

one ammo type that would be neat is a blended metal design, which retains its composure upon striking a hard surface, like armor or a wall, so it's good at penetrating, BUT, when striking soft fleshy tissue it fragments like a hollow point, ripping and shredding the foe into meaty bits. This would be the ideal round for any situation. Good against armor, robots, unarmored targets, you name it.

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You don't need to wait for it hombre, and you don't need quantum physics. Blended metal tech is already here. The only reason the US military doesn't use it, I believe, is the same reason they don't use hollowpoint ammunition- it's considered inhumane to do that much tissue damage to an enemy. Don't believe me? Check out this video. Goes right through and armor plate, but the results from hitting a porkchop could almost be described as explosive. Also is designed not to go through drywall, so if you use it in say, a self defense situation in your apartment your neighbor's head doesn't end up like that pork chop if you miss. Your assailant on the other hand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poV4xM9Nxps&feature=related


No, no no. I'm sorry, but you're completely wrong. First, observe this completely fact based chart I have uploaded for you.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6149/assaultrifleroundwounds.jpg
Each caliber has different levels of penetration, frangibility, and force imparted on the target all play a role in how much "dead-er" each shot makes your target. Admittedly, all of those take a backseat to shot placement, but this stuff is still important. So each caliber behaves differently, not the same. Sure, they all kill things, but to say this makes them alike is oversimplifying it. Not only that, but take the same caliber of ammunition, and fire it out of two guns with different sized barrels, or barrels with a different rifling twist ratio, and you'll be looking at two very different ballistic profiles. In fact, the US military has had issues with the M4 carbine, in that the terminal ballistics at engagement range for the M4's shorter barrel are inferior. As a result the military had a new 5.56mm load developed that had optimum terminal ballistics for carbine length barrels. It is in use by special forces as we speak and you can see it on the chart as the Mk.262. I won't go into depth about the pros and cons of each and every round, but you get the idea from the chart that tissue damage is NOT going to be the same.


I most certainly agree, for variety's sake. But please, don't tell me that all the guns should behave the same in combat, even if it was true in real life, this is an RPG, and RPGs NEED for different weapons to have different stats; it's part of what makes upgrading to a new gun fun. If every gun was the same it would be a matter of aesthetics only, which seems boring to me.

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Those bullets that shred... They're more for military use, and not really big in civil use. Hollow Points do more Mushrooming than actually shredding, just to be clear. :thumbsup:

Yeah, I have a problem with the permanence of the mods too, but I got over it by just thinking about how you could go get another copy of the same gun. The only problem is, if we can mod the unique weapons, we won't be able to un-mod them...
As far as the damage discrepancies, I see your point, but all I can say is that it's still an RPG. Those same kinds of damage discrepancies were present in the original games, and their presence here is part of the game. It's two different ways of distinguishing the weapons, I suppose, but I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. There's no reason why the guns can't stay the way they are, with a variety of damage and fire rates- but also have unique ammos too. In fact, the unique ammos are another thing that was lost from the old games.

But like I said, magic gun or magic bullet? How about both? In oblivion, which F3 was based off of, you had bows and arrows. You could get a stronger bow. You could get sharper arrows. You could also enchant your bow. You could also get enchanted arrows. (Think modded guns and special ammo types for this anology). So there's no reason why both couldn't happen, except they'd need to alter the ammo system so it's like oblivion's arrows, where you have to "equip" your current pool of ammo to shoot it.

One of the best things about STALKER I thought was switching between ammo types. For shotguns, as an example, you could get buckshot, dart rounds and slugs, and they all had their uses. Other types of ammo had +p or AP variants. I think you and I would both agree that New Vegas would do well to take a page from STALKER here.

Given that Power Armor will be significantly tougher than in FO3 there's definitely a case for the inclusion of AP rounds, however having a multiplicity of types of rounds for a given caliber would be a nightmare when restocking at the local gun shop.


As far as damage discrepancies between weapons sharing an ammo caliber, there's also things like spread to take into account, if the weapon that does 8/shot has 1/2 the spread of one that does 12/shot then the damage difference is a lot smaller than the raw damage numbers would suggest. A simplified example, assuming 6 shots from each weapon:

6 shots at 8 damage/shot gives 48 damage, while 6 and 12 gives 72
with 1/2 the spread, the weapon that does 8/shot will hit 2x as often, thus the actual figures are 48 damage for the first weapon and 36 for the second
as a result, the first weapon is actually BETTER than the second, even though the second has a higher base damage rating

Of course the actual model for gun spread is a LOT more complicated, but you get the general idea.

I deliberately omitted things such as the HP and wear rate of the two weapons, as that makes things FAR more difficult to compare.

this kind of stuff wouldn't work for fallout. I mean c'mon FMJ!? You are clearly one of those stupid CoD fanatics who wants fallout to be like that

Also electric and explosive ammo? It's not really the fallout style

As a veriation, what about F.E.V bullits, the enermy hit disolves into a bubbling pile of goo, if not kllled by crittical then the damage conunuts to burn though the armor do damage over time

Why would it be a nightmare, its never been a prooblem in the other fallout games? i realy miss using JHP to the groin lol, hope they bring back the groin and eye shots

i hope you have played fallout 1, FMJ is standard ammo for any balistic weapon, JHP and AP where also in Fallout 1&2, tatics brought us the evolving idea of EMC, flassette, and buck shot not to mentchon the ofthers like DU, witch i'd like to see make a return, come om what post nuclear simulation dosn't have Depleated Uraineum bullits!
(Also electric and explosive ammo? It's not really the fallout style) i think it is, for a game that you can don a pair of spiked knuckle dusters and aim for someones groin with crippling damage, i think that HE & EMC is just up fallouts street, pluss they have already been in the fallout world when intreduced in Fallout Tatics.

i'd like to see FMJ,JHP & AP. Others would be nice but not essential.

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