I agree. Neither is wrong.

And at a knyght than wol I first bigynne.

Why is everyone arguing about how the word is pronounced in English? They don't talk English is Skyrim, they talk Skyrimian [citation needed].


And it's pronounced Arrr-Chi-maye-Ghi (Think of Dan Aykroyd doing a bad impression of an Italian cheeseburger salesman).

The languages of men evolved from the language of the Altmer. The correct pronunciation probably requires a knowledge of 27-dimensional mathematics and a full history of all the Arch-mages from previous Kalpas.

English doesn't have a version of L'Académie fran?aise to dictate correct pronunciation. English is an extremely utilitarian language and, in general, if you can be understood then you're doing it right. That's the beauty of it, it's more focussed on the primary concern of communication; making oneself understood. Pronunciation and even spelling are largely secondary considerations, subservient to the need to be understood. It's why it changes so rapidly; it is constantly adapting to the world around it.

I say it both ways depending on my mood and how I think the person I'm speaking to would pronounce it.

I think it was knygts originally, and then knyghts, and then knights...

And did you know? "You" was the formal and "thou" the informal second person singular pronoun. People tend to think it's the other way around.

English is kind of fascinating.




P.S. Pronounce it as you wish. Just keep in mind that "archmage" is the correct pronunciation.

Well a cockney might. From what I've read silent aitches were standard in English until the 19th century when it started becoming associated with lower class speech patterns.

'Knights in white satin' - great song! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpGGu6kmAS4

'Nights of the round table' is another great song! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0

Another great song (to some) is 'I'd lich to teach the world to sing.' - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jr9hPbYmBo (not the best quality of the recording!)

Tallen has a good point with 't kniggits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

EDIT: Deliberate incorrect words BTW for those that dina ged id!

Back on track with the whole 'Archmage' thing;

The teasing and kidding about in this thread just goes to show how English is such a diverse language.

In English, we have a language that can be strict or laid back, serious or funny and (interestingly) sometimes all of those at the same time. English is, in some cases, open to interpretation and sometimes not so ambiguous.

There are narrow and wide dialects of the English language - I know this as a person that lives in the South East of the North of England! My home is within thirty miles of Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough and this gives me a raft of dialects and colloquiums to draw from. Yorkshire, Northumbria¹ and Cumbria² are but a very short drive away from my home in Durham - can anyone say 'eclectic'?

I have relatives in Scotland, Wales, Southern England and Australia and have been, for want of a nicer way of putting it, exposed to all their dialects. I have also, some Irish in my ancestry!

The question is 'archmage' or 'arkmage' (or ‘arch mage’)? Everyone in this thread has an idea or opinion as to how we should pronounce the word in question and we all have our preferred way.

To give a good, solid, educated, well reasoned and true answer to the question of how to pronounce 'archmage' is, at best, difficult. We are each biased to such pronunciation due to our upbringing, education, regional dialect and (I am sure many) other factors.³

At the risk of reiteration, enjoy the game everyone and pronounce the word(s) as you see fit.

To the OP: Sorry I cannot give you more a definitive answer; I am sure others will try to though.

¹ & ² I am aware of regional mapping, naming and pride issue - please, please do not take offence at my wording or 'pull me up' on it.
³ Again, no offence meant!

To be fair, the explanation you gave was a claim that The Imperial Library supported your belief in their being pronounced that way.

The Imperial Library is not canon. Frequented though it may be by Devs, and even if posted between the lines BY a member of the Dev team, until it appears in game it is in no way official.

No spoken voiced character in Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim has used those pronunciations. And as your assumed pronunciation is contradicted by quite a wealth of sound samples it's safe to assume that while you may have read it as so in text it's not how it's pronounced in the games.

This is one of my biggest gripes at transatlantic corruption of the English language. That 'H' is not silent in 'Herbs'. Unless you have an accent which ignores the letter 'H' in all cases. And in which case you would still be pronouncing it WRONG. But regional accents in Britain do drop some interesting variations.

In RP English it's a very definite 'H' in 'Herbs,' 'Herbal' and 'Herbalist'. Always has been.

I had this train of thought after paying Oblivion. I always assumed (to use your example because my own hypothesis is three years old and forgotten) that like "Arch-enemy", "Archmage" doesn't follow usual custom but in reverse, being pronounced Ark instead of Arch. It makes it easier to accept that voice actors sometimes butcher pronunciations

Very interesting post! My response is not meant to be taken negatively and not given in anger - though it may at first seem that way.

Received Pronunciation (RP) or 'The Queens English' is also referred to as 'Standard English' or even 'BBC English' and is described as "the standard accent of English as spoken in the south of England".

Why is this so interesting? Quite simply because the idea of RP and the real life reality of speech are quite different. In the south of England alone there are many regional dialects or accents to start with!

RP has its uses in teaching, business, international communications and snobbery! RP is a joke though when it comes to real life and widely used language.

Sadly, it is all too easy for those outside any language to take only the RP version of that language as a hard and fast rule. Spoken German for example is usually quite different from learned German when the pupil only has the RP version of German to go by and no exposure to day by day German speech.

Language is amazing to me. I love the differences in English and the way the language can be toyed with.

Any way, I gotta go. I need a rest and tea is ready (evening meal* - not the drink). I think my tea was probably cooked with some 'erbs in 't pot.

*Tea, dinner, evening meal - its all just food to me.

Yeah, I should have made it clearer. I did type out three paragraphs explaining why America modelled some of its pronunciation after French rules. Then I remembered nobody cares. Let's just say it's an American quirk introduced by the newly-formed upper classes who were somewhat clueless, and who didn't want to model themselves too closely on their enemies, the Brits.

The issue with that is that it is "archimage" is actually the french word anglicized. In that case yes, it definitively becomes ark-mage, but it is still kind of inconclusive. Did the "i" just drop out, or is archimage actually a totally different word from the English Archmage?


So glad someone got that

Also, nice input into the conversation, good to see someone citing sources.

last time i checked, tamriel was not earth and magic is not spelled magicka, so what's your point OP?

Is that how it was originally spelled? I learned something new today.

I've always liked the archaic form. Come on: how funny is it to be a kniggit in scirham (knight in shining armour)?

As I see it, it doesn't matter how you think a word is pronounced in a TES game (Or any other Videogame) when read as text. If the in game characters pronounce it differently to how you thought it would be pronounced you have to really cede that they are right and you were not aware. If the studio who created the game believed it was meant to be pronounced differently then they wouldn't have voice actors deliberately pronounce it wrong. The recorded pronunciation is final.

Comparing how it 'should' be pronounced, based on a real English word, actually doesn't make a lot of sense. This isn't the real world. This is a made up world. And if they choose to pronounce a word differently then, ultimately, that's just how the word is actually pronounced in that world. Regardless of what anybody might wish to the contrary.

A few posts back I posted my general frustration at people who do not pronounced the letter 'H' in 'Herbs' 'Herbal' or 'Herbalist'. Now, in standard English failing to do so is incorrect. But this isn't standard English. In Tamriel 'Herbs' has a silent 'H'. That's how it's spoken. Debate it all you like, but if that#s how the residents pronounce it then that's just how it is.

'Tas been a pleasure.

I likes me http://www.heinz.co.uk/Sauce-Partners/hp-sauce with me tea!

Seems the subject of our little debate, for all the arguments¹ is as yet unresolved. You really know how to pick a good topic².


Scirham - brightly coloured mail as I recall. You got a chuckle from me on that.

---

1 Argument - point of view as apposed to fight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument
2 Topic as in theme as apposed to luvverly 'lil choccy bar! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic_%28chocolate_bar%29 Yummy!

But "Arc-Mage" sounds better.

This is the definitive answer:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tomato

Agreed in part!

You are correct - in game pronunciation is how it is and how it should be and that is that.

I think the debate has moved on though.

We started out questioning how a certain word could or should be pronounced in game and moved to a debate about that word and some others in general.

Just a note on a professional game maker having voice actors deliberately use incorrect pronunciation. This happens! Variety in language is often recognised in many types of media by many media makers as they realise that in the real world, these differences exist. A writer seeing and accepting the difference in accent, dialogue and such can make that writer turn an otherwise dull piece of media into something wonderful.

To me 'arch mage' sounds not only betterer but also more correct like. It's the old 'horses fer courses' argument. Here, the pronunciation one way being preferred to other.¹


You say tomato ... I say ... Let's call the whole thing off.²

Of course, I could return to my earlier Forte quote on this.

1 Horses ... http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/horses_for_courses
2 Let's call .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7sYNptYjsE

Sometimes errors do occur, I agree. But as a guy who works in that industry I have experienced Producers requesting mispronunciations to be cut rather than go out, and on several occasions re-recorded. Which is never easy. Because even when you get the same voice actor in the studio there are differences in tone varying from very subtle to quite obvious. Especially when accents were. Adding the odd phrase is easier, but trying to marry up a new sample, sandwiched between others, it almost always sounds a little bit... off.

Personally I pronounce it "arch," but I love the way Nelacar says it. Vive la difference.

Grammar Nazis FTW! Lol.

Or in this case, Pronunciation Secret Police.