[RELWIP] Automatic Variants - Thread 5

Post » Sun May 27, 2012 12:11 pm

http://www.mediafire.com/?64j5gciq13boeoe
  • Added the in-game scripts to the distribution. Sorry!
  • Fixed a RACE import issue triggered by StarX Frost Giants.
  • Consistency file moved to "My Documents/My Games/Skyrim/SkyProc/Consistency"


Would you want AV to be able to have different textures for static items and world textures?

If it was possible down the road, then yeah. I haven't really looked into the mechanics of how those items work to know whether it would be possible at this point or not.
If everything else is done and solid, then I'd love to make it happen, though. 8)
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cassy
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 7:10 pm

http://www.mediafire.com/?yypbl6oab1qdrs4


Time for demon slaying!
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Rhi Edwards
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:04 pm

@Leviathan1753. Thanks for the AV update AND the Bellyache 1.7 AV package. Gonna try it out today.
I agree with AiTenshi1 for ppl with multiple characters/save games. I assume that once SUM is ready such a thing could/would be integrate there. I assume that Skyrim Unified Manager (SUM) will have the possibility to install/reinstall/deinstall AV (and the other Skyproc based programs out there like ASIS, realistic lighting with customization and future Skyrpoc programs) . I really wouldn't wonder if Skyrpoc would be embraced by other modders as well!!!

About the insanity AV packages not being converted to 1.3. I assume he is not going to do it, he's busy doing other Skyrim mods and seems to have left the AV community. Perhaps you could sent him a PM asking him to convert it or at least ask him for permission so that you can convert and have it for download here. I would be happy to do also, have PM-ed him a while back but sadly have NOT got a response from him...

Happy D3 Demon slaying, you've earned it, kill kill kill.....
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:34 am

I know mods that add armor / weapons / spells are small and people are likely to have a bunch of them. I personally find that way to many armour mods are focusing more on being sixy than anything else, and I've found few weapon mods to my liking and the spell mods tend to contain to many unwanted spells. I'm trying to make the other mods I have work together without blowing up everything.

Would you want AV to be able to have different textures for static items and world textures?

sixy is subjective with each individual as well as varies across time. However, if you use any body mod, you will need clothing and armor mods. This is required for the same reason as the vanilla clothing and armor is required, of course.

Of course, the point is to customize the game so it is enjoyable for you. I cannot play Bethesda's games with their character aesthetics, nor can many other people, which is why aesthetic mods have been so popular. My sister almost never plays Western games because the aesthetics are not to her preference and do not allow her to empathize with the characters.

I'm not sure what static or environment textures would be randomly varied. It might cause odd results ingame. Up to Lev, I suppose.

Anyway, this went a bit off topic for AV, I think. :smile:
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how solid
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 4:32 pm

Once I got the in-game script with av 1.4, it worked. Strange :P
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 3:23 pm

Well, I gotta say, I absolutely do not want AV to cater around all the custom body and custom body armor mods.

It should be the last on the list. First and foremost AV should and must run solid in vanilla Skyrim. Then and only then should Lev think about if he wants to add custom body/custom body armor mod support to AV.

If you can't play Skyrim in vanilla mode because you need to have Japanese and/or anime characters or you need your female NPCs/PC to have [censored] the size of The Hindenburg. Well, you're SOL then, wait your turn. On top of that, looking at http://i.imgur.com/Penmv.jpg I don't think people like that get what Skyrim is about, but that's just me.
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Mason Nevitt
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 9:17 am

I wholeheartedly agree with sounaipr, I am very excited for variants in stats per weapon/texture (jf possible) and more dynamic variations in npc levels. Could really care less about people wanting to see variance in chest sizes and other extremities for women (typically the only gender they'd like to see any variance in as well, so it's not about realism for these people).

It's a joke really. Present such ideas on that forum which won't be named, I'm sure anyone with these types of thoughts is familiar with it. Thanks again for the new AV update, will start testing it today.

edit: The StarX Frost Giants bug is resolved as well, awesome! You're the man, Leviathan! Hope D3 isn't a total letdown for you coming from great dungeoncrawls like D2 (Check out Titan Quest if you haven't already! Great Ancient Greece D2 clone!)
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Kanaoka
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:17 am

@Sounaipr and @cataxu. I think its good that we all have our preferences what should and/or should not be done. Sometimes its the way things are said (the tone makes the music) which can upset other ppl who also just voice their opinion. Perhaps I misinterpret your posts but I personally found them a bit harsh. I think Leviathan has already pointed out the general direction he wants to go with AV but in the end its entirely up to him WHAT he's going to implement and WHEN. Of course we can try to convince him with solid arguments to implement feature X or feature Y or what feature we personally find less interesting. You all know I have done this in the past as well.....
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Nicole Elocin
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 8:49 am

I'd love variations of NPCs....them wearing the same clothing everyday is disgusting.

Btw, I'm using 1.2.2 would it be safe to upgrade to the newest version?
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Natalie J Webster
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 7:55 pm

Just to add a point in favor of body mods; if support was added, mod authors could very well work on varied types of bodies (say, an aged body). This could add variety beyond simply different types of 'sixy' bodies.

Imo, I'd rather have the weapons/armor stuff done first. With the system in place it should be (reasonably) easy.
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Elizabeth Lysons
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:59 am

@vinu. Yes. See also Levi's announcement of AV 1.4/14.0.1 on page 6. BUT you will have to use the 1.3 compatible AV packages because 1.3.x introduced a new and more flexible package structure.
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Jennifer May
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 2:27 pm

I personally would like to have the weapon/armor (and later the variation in stats) first. As plutoman says and also said by Levi in the past implementing this would easier then clothing stuff because the basics are (more or less) the same..
NOT that I would not like to see clothing variants, because I do. One can only wonder what is/will be possible when a very rock solid and flexible codebase exists combined with Skyrim Unified Manager (SUM). It seems Levi is getting closer and closer towards that goal. (yup bad english).
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christelle047
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 8:44 am

@sounaipr:
No, you can wait your turn, thanks. :smile: FYI, eroticism varies with time and culture. The most erotic location on the female body in Japanese culture is the nape of the neck. Americans treat female briasts as sixual objects, but they are merely functional in many cultures and societies (and may mark a level of advlthood/womanhood in some instances). I find your comment to be very ethnocentric and misguided, and it does not generate any sense of community (just the opposite, in fact). You may want to check the idea of embracing diversity. You may also want to check my personal preferences (yes, I prefer moe, but also petite characters, so I don't use the types of mods you seem to think represent an extremely diverse artform... unlike vanilla, by the way, which is not at all diverse and is unplayable for many of Bethesda's customers). My sister happens to be one potential customer who avoids Western games because of the poor aesthetics and only plays Japanese (or East Asian) RPGs. She's a very heavy RPG gamer, but she cannot relate to the Western aesthetics (or the penchant for focusing on violence). Bethesda is a company and misses customers like her (without mods, of course).

@Cataxu:
It has nothing to do with female chest size (or male chest size, for that matter, which is certainly not "realistic" in either vanilla or mods). It's very odd that people think moe is the definition of anime (or manga, or games) when you have very popular examples such as Hayao Miyazai's films or games like Street Fighter that are not at all moe. It's also odd that people seem to be uncomfortable with diversity, but that's another topic.

Just a general note: armor and clothing have the same issues for body mods because clothing is simply armor with no protection. Bethesda realized this, too, and that's why they are in the same category now. I remember an effort to try to automate conversion adjustments for outfits in Oblivion modding, but I don't know if it was eventually finalized or not.

You see this in real life, of course. Imagine trying to take an outfit that's a size 12 and having someone who is a size 6 wear it, or vice-versa. If you ever travel between countries with very different average body sizes, you'll experience the issue firsthand. For example, various international students and business people who travel between certain countries (e.g., America and Japan, or any Western country and East Asian country) have pointed out that it is very difficult to find properly fitted outfits in the non-native market. It's really a matter of business and economics, so things have improved in variety as people have become more mobile, but it's still a major problem (just not impossible as it once was). This also happens for people in a native market who happen to be pretty far off from the so-called "average" (or at least the average that is used by textiles makers).

Personally, I always avoid armor because my characters prefer speed and flexibility. Unfortunately, Bethesda does not really offer anywhere near accurate depictions of what wearing armor, especially heavy armor, does to a human(oid)'s speed, agility, etc. :( There was a reason why knights had squires and horses, and why they did not normally wear their armor until actually starting battle. There was also a reason why few people had heavy armor, of course (i.e., it was terribly expensive and heavy footed and mounted units were not used in every battle because of logistics and cost... just like you do not see tanks in every battle today, for example).

Anyway, we're going farther and farther away from AV, I think. :smile: The bottom line is that something like weapons is one thing that may be possible, but if you randomly switch outfits, you will very likely wind up with visual results that have a lot of issues with clipping, tearing, etc. You can switch outfits, of course, but the results may not match up with the body, just like trying to use an outfit made for one body with a different body. It doesn't fit right. :smile:
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-__^
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 6:47 pm

Uhmm there's no av packages folder in the new version, do I have to make it?
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Stay-C
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:50 pm

@Vinu. YES.

Changes are Leviathan1753 forgot to create the directory, a bit the same as that he forgot to include the ingame script :wink:
Rest of the zip file seems to be precisely the same as the Skyproc Patchers dir on on my system. Don't forget the Script dir!!
Just create the "AV Packages" directory in the directory where file "Automatic Variants.jar" resides and run AV. Pretty sure this works.

Please file a small bugreport for Leviathan1753. Makes life easier for newcomers to AV.
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Sun of Sammy
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 5:34 pm

@ Cataxu
Don't you already get differences in the chest size if you use the weight slider in the race menu?


@ AiTenshi1
If you'd have to walk around in order to use heavy armour, then it'd be almost pointless, as quite few people would put up with that. While I agree that the movement penalty for heavy armour could be slightly greater, trying to make it all to realistic seem kinda silly. We do after all have a lack of magic, Dragons and living dead in the real world.

Also, if AV touched body mods and the armour made to fit them, you'd obviously use armour and clothes that was made to fit the body mod you had installed. The clipping would be the same as if you installed the outfit the regular way.
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Catharine Krupinski
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 5:59 pm

@Body size variations in AV

1) AV will never require anything. Period. Don't ever fear that you'll have to get this or that to use it aside from the fundamentals like Java, yada yada.
2) If automatic variance can be done on NPCs that get results that people desire (mainly in the different body types for -true- immersion reasons, I could care less about boob size), then I'll probably look into integrating it sometime down the line... though I admit it would be very low on my priority. I probably would go and finish Skyrim Dynamic Leveled Lists first
3) Weapon variations both in texture/meshes as well as spec file features such as stat variances / locational variances / naming pre-affixes, etc ARE the top priority of AV and will be until they are complete.
4) Less drama please. 8) I want this thread to be full of contributing diverse people even if I wouldn't ever install the same mods myself. It won't change my priorities that someone likes this or that; I've got my mind set on my goals. Let people stick their ideas/requests in and all will be sorted out and fine.

Hope D3 isn't a total letdown for you coming from great dungeoncrawls like D2 (Check out Titan Quest if you haven't already! Great Ancient Greece D2 clone!)

ERROR 37

So far it's been fantastic! 8) I think the team really did an amazing job on that game, from what I've played.
I feel like the team was a small faction of true gamers that had Blizzard's resources without the business slavers' tendrils sunk into them.. so they were just free to go spend 12 years making a kick ass game they wanted. Recipe for greatness.
Time will tell, but I think it's really intuitive, balanced, and challenging. 8D Bout time for a hard game people need to truly min/max for. I'm sick of these games where I can right click while eating pizza through the whole thing. 8X

I'd love variations of NPCs....them wearing the same clothing everyday is disgusting.

Btw, I'm using 1.2.2 would it be safe to upgrade to the newest version?

That's a cool idea! 8) I think AV could definitely handle a worn clothing variance. We would probably just feed it a seed outfit that people are currently wearing like farm clothes, and then a list of alternate items to choose from, and the script could just pick one randomly every day.
*added to the list*

Clipping would only be an issue if you tried to use an outfit for body type B on body type A.. but if you fed the system with all the same body type then it would be fine.
If we get body type variants for AV as well.. then we'll have to think of something fancy cool then. 8P

Upgrading from AV 1.2 will probably pose the same issues as upgrading from 1.3
I only mentioned 1.3 in my earlier post, but 1.2 has the same underlying setup.. and will suffer the same plaguing issues.

You can take a shot at it, for sure.. but I would make sure to back up your old AV setup just in case. 8)

Uhmm there's no av packages folder in the new version, do I have to make it?

Yup. 8)
Most AV packages listed make that folder themselves, so you don't really need to make it manually.. just unzip/install an AV Package from the list.
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Danii Brown
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 11:12 am

For some reason all my Whiterun guards are naked, headless, and floating along the streets. This seems to have happened because of upgrading this mod. Any thoughts anyone?

Okay, I just restarted the game; I wasn't that far along. However, so far all the animals look the same.
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Sophie Payne
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 1:37 pm

For some reason all my Whiterun guards are naked, headless, and floating along the streets. This seems to have happened because of upgrading this mod. Any thoughts anyone?

Okay, I just restarted the game; I wasn't that far along. However, so far all the animals look the same.

You should try spawning a bunch of mobs using console commands. Then it's easier to tell if there are different ones. I prefer spawning skeletons, as the bloody red skeletons are easy to spot in a crowd of 15.
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~Sylvia~
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 9:35 pm

@rayhne. If you don't know the codes needed when using a placeatme command to spawn creatures, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73082907/Automatic%20Variants/Batch%20Files/skyrim-batches-bellyache_v0_5.7zis a buch of .bat files (to execute from the console) which could make live easier. I use them for testing also.
With regards to upgrading. Leviathan1753 said earlier in this thread that it is NOT safe to upgrade from an earlier version of AV to 1.4.0.1.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 9:09 pm

Just wondering if AV is planning on changing any inventory or death item leveled lists? I know Skyrim Monster Mod changed lists so now animals drop weird items like rings and potions. I could see AV being a great way to get a more diverse game world and be super compatible with everything.
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brenden casey
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 2:12 pm

@rayhne. If you don't know the codes needed when using a placeatme command to spawn creatures, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/73082907/Automatic%20Variants/Batch%20Files/skyrim-batches-bellyache_v0_5.7zis a buch of .bat files (to execute from the console) which could make live easier. I use them for testing also.
With regards to upgrading. Leviathan1753 said earlier in this thread that it is NOT safe to upgrade from an earlier version of AV to 1.4.0.1.

I got that but I removed the previous version and installed the new then started a new game and I'm still getting nothing but the vanilla animals.
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Ebony Lawson
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 8:08 pm

@rayhn. I can't help you further I'm afraid. Leviathan1753 is the expert. The normal procedure is I believe that you have to sent him your compressed Skyproc Debug dir, AV.esp and since 1.4.0.1 also your consistency.txt file. His email address should be somewhere in this thread (can't recall). But he's pretty busy doing other things ATM....

The following comes to mind: You don't by any chance have spawned using placeatme or .bat file a creature which has no variants like a Deer/Elk. Good non aggressive test creatures are chicken and cows...
Have you placed Automatic Variants.esp at the very last position in your load order (even after a bashed patch)? This is VITAL AFAIK. The new AV comes also with a script called AVRaceAttachment.pex which has to be put in the Data/Scripts dir (better said the AV1.4.0.1 download consists of a Skyproc patcher and a Scripts dir which BOTH must be placed in your skyrim/data directory. Have you copied the scripts dir also? Concerning the ingame script called AVRaceAttachment.pex. The 1.4 download did I believe not contain this one, please check if you are using version 1.4.0.1 !! This is all I can think of............
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i grind hard
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 10:12 pm

@Leviathan1753. I was helping someone with creating an AV-package for Dragons. Iirc I did the following, created an AV-package for a Frost Dragon which consists of one very distinct looking green dragon texture and crated an AV.esp. After that I received three other textures for a frost dragon. I did gather&exit and added the three new textures to the existing Av package, created a new AV.esp. The option use vanilla skin was ON. Now I started a new game and when I finally got out of the Helgen Dungeon I spawned a few dragons. They were all either Grey (the vanilla dragon I assume) or green. The other three dragons are called Dark Purple white, Frost blue and White. Spawned a total of 40 dragons (very good rig) and they all were grey or green. Quit Skyrim and after reoading save game did the same. Still either green or grey dragons. Checked file consistency and there were 16 (4x4) entries. I assume for every creature 4 lines in the consistency are created. Checked also the textures/av package dir and their are 4 textures in it!! Have all public available and a few of my own enabled. Tested with cows and chicken and they did spawn correctly - seems to spawn all available variants!!!

My obervation. It seems as if when I create an Av package and later on add more textures to it that only the textures for the first creation of an AV.esp/consistency file are used and when I later on add more textures they are ignored. Does this perhaps ring a bell? I can supply you with everything you want, but now I'm gonna sleep 1:05 AM here. I can/will do tomorrow some more testing, but perhaps you can also look into it. VERY STRANGE.
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CRuzIta LUVz grlz
 
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Post » Sun May 27, 2012 8:14 pm

Just wondering if AV is planning on changing any inventory or death item leveled lists? I know Skyrim Monster Mod changed lists so now animals drop weird items like rings and potions. I could see AV being a great way to get a more diverse game world and be super compatible with everything.

Yeah maybe. It would be more along the lines of allowing modders to give special items to certain variants they made.

I got that but I removed the previous version and installed the new then started a new game and I'm still getting nothing but the vanilla animals.

Since variants are achieved via in-game scripts now, a good way to tell if things are working as intended is to look at the script logs.
http://afterimagemetal.com/AutoVar/Automatic%20Variants%20Readme.html#bugs for how to do this.

Other than that, a good ol' debug report with that script log + the AV patching logs will help me help you. 8)
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Monika Krzyzak
 
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