[Danial Zachery]

I'm not even remotely sure how this statement relates to my post that you quoted...

but we'll work with it? I guess?

lol

You asked why people are finding fault with the exclusive business practice...

[Ebony Lawson]

That statement right there literally contradicts numerous things you have said. In your previous posts you show anger towards Microsoft for doing such terrible things like gaining exclusivity for a particular DLC, yet right here you admit Sony has indeed done the same thing. How does Sony differ in comparison to Microsoft iconcerning this aspect? Like I stated before, it's basic business, both companies do it.

Bottom line is Microsoft paid Bethesda extra to temporarily get the first two DLC's that are released exclusive to their console and their console alone. "Temporarily" is in bold font because the other systems will get this DLC. It's just a matter of time so there's no need to act like Microsoft and Bethesda are conspiring against users of the other systems.



No, you're right, Sony cares about their consumers so much more...

If it wasn't for customers, the people who buy the product the company makes, then the company would not be in business for very long. Do you understand how what your saying does not quite add up? Customers are literally the driving force behind every company that puts out a product. I'm really not trying to argue here but you should understand the basics of business before beginning an argument based around it.

Who says I care about Sony?

Sony paid EA to delay not only DLCs but also bugfixes for BF3, a game that's not remotely as "complete" on console as PC. Hell, the large maps are mutilated to meet technical limitations / accommodate fewer players.

Microsoft and Sony (and their closed platforms) are both toxic influences on the industry at the moment. Sony used to be a lot better but has had to stoop because of MS' market share.

Back on topic: Hate the game, not the player. Every business in every industry makes use of this practice to help gain an edge over their competition. Why is it now that people are finding fault with it? That's the question we should be asking.

Actually, MS was fined lots and lots of money for doing very similar things to get Windows into the position it's in today. Paying and otherwise incentivising software devs to delay / cancel software for Mac OS and Linux ...

But it's okay, because despite video games being a multi billion dollar industry they're apparently not serious . Well, we'll see how long that lasts.

[Richard]

Yeah It would be kinda nice to have a set release date for PC/PS3, I'm looking forward to this DLC and it svcks not knowing when I can buy it!

One month for an exclusive is a lot aswell IMO, 1 week is more than enough for something like this, by the time we get it everyone has finished it MULTIPLE times.

[mishionary]

Yeah It would be kinda nice to have a set release date for PC/PS3, I'm looking forward to this DLC and it svcks not knowing when I can buy it!

One month for an exclusive is a lot aswell IMO, 1 week is more than enough for something like this, by the time we get it everyone has finished it MULTIPLE times.

A one or two week exclusive would have been enough. My brother beat DG in under 6 hours. Now he's waiting for the PC version of it for mods.

[Cat Haines]

Who says I care about Sony?

Sony paid EA to delay not only DLCs but also bugfixes for BF3, a game that's not remotely as "complete" on console as PC. Hell, the large maps are mutilated to meet technical limitations / accommodate fewer players.

Microsoft and Sony (and their closed platforms) are both toxic influences on the industry at the moment. Sony used to be a lot better but has had to stoop because of MS' market share.




Actually, MS was fined lots and lots of money for doing very similar things to get Windows into the position it's in today. Paying and otherwise incentivising software devs to delay / cancel software for Mac OS and Linux ...

But it's okay, because despite video games being a multi billion dollar industry they're apparently not serious . Well, we'll see how long that lasts.

To re-iterate a point I have already made to you regarding your last remark - the software delayed for all but windows had business applications; businesses which would have relied on it were made to suffer, livelihoods were at stake. This exclusivity deal makes only gamers wait, for an entertainment product.

And to pre-empt 'what if it costs Beth jobs/money' it wont cost jobs as there is plenty of precedent in the industry of this practise NOT leading to job loss (see rockstar and the GTA DLC), and as for money, if anyone thinks the marketing boffins failed to factor lost sales into what was paid to Beth, they are sorely deluded.

I'll say this again, as no-one has yet been able to refute this: for us, the consumer, this shift away from complete exclusivity to temporary exclusivity benefits us FAR more. Why are we whinging about ultimately having more choice? Time was you'd have to buy a PC if you wanted to play a TES game full stop. Given the choice, I'd happily risk having to wait every so often

[Claudz]

I'll say this again, as no-one has yet been able to refute this: for us, the consumer, this shift away from complete exclusivity to temporary exclusivity benefits us FAR more. Why are we whinging about ultimately having more choice? Time was you'd have to buy a PC if you wanted to play a TES game full stop. Given the choice, I'd happily risk having to wait every so often

I don't... I just... I refuse to believe you aren't trolling. That has to be one of the biggest piles of ignorant, misinformed [censored] I've seen for a while. You have my pity.

[Sierra Ritsuka]

I don't... I just... I refuse to believe you aren't trolling. That has to be one of the biggest piles of ignorant, misinformed [censored] I've seen for a while. You have my pity.

I might have your pity, but you have no rebuttal. Anything else?

[Kari Depp]

To re-iterate a point I have already made to you regarding your last remark - the software delayed for all but windows had business applications; businesses which would have relied on it were made to suffer, livelihoods were at stake. This exclusivity deal makes only gamers wait, for an entertainment product.

And to pre-empt 'what if it costs Beth jobs/money' it wont cost jobs as there is plenty of precedent in the industry of this practise NOT leading to job loss (see rockstar and the GTA DLC), and as for money, if anyone thinks the marketing boffins failed to factor lost sales into what was paid to Beth, they are sorely deluded.

I'll say this again, as no-one has yet been able to refute this: for us, the consumer, this shift away from complete exclusivity to temporary exclusivity benefits us FAR more. Why are we whinging about ultimately having more choice? Time was you'd have to buy a PC if you wanted to play a TES game full stop. Given the choice, I'd happily risk having to wait every so often

Exclusivity needs to go away. There are a lot of ways to reward customer loyalty. My friend on XBox is being punished from discussing the DLC his friends because it's not out on PC. So he's waiting just like us. He would rather get it $10 and the others pay $20, but release on same day.

"We love how you choose to use our XBox 360 console. For this loyalty we'll sending you a $10.00 rebate if you buy the Dawnguard addon. This is us showing we care about you and hope you continue to use our services in the future."

[Kaley X]

Exclusivity needs to go away. There are a lot of ways to reward customer loyalty. My friend on XBox is being punished from discussing the DLC his friends because it's not out on PC. So he's waiting just like us. He would rather get it $10 and the others pay $20, but release on same day.

"We love how you choose to use our XBox 360 console. For this loyalty we'll sending you a $10.00 rebate if you buy the Dawnguard addon. This is us showing we care about you and hope you continue to use our services in the future."

And what about their loyal customers who DON'T play skyrim? They have to go whistle?

EDIT: and, as an afterthought, are you really telling me you've never seen a DLC launch at a lower price, to be raised a little while after release? There's an example of that within the TES series as it happens.

[Dean Brown]

You asked why people are finding fault with the exclusive business practice...

I had to read it almost three full times, but now I get the context you answered in. lol

Actually, MS was fined lots and lots of money for doing very similar things to get Windows into the position it's in today. Paying and otherwise incentivising software devs to delay / cancel software for Mac OS and Linux ...

Microsoft was fined in the past. They were never made to fix/redact their actions. Now it's seen as valuable marketing strategy, and Microsoft is seen as a pioneer, not a pirate.

Fines aren't even handed out for this any more as it's seen as rewarding a company's customer base for their continued loyalty.

I don't... I just... I refuse to believe you aren't trolling. That has to be one of the biggest piles of ignorant, misinformed [censored] I've seen for a while. You have my pity.

And you're prepared to offer proof to refute Bieltan's claim, right? Proof that it doesn't actually benefit us more than a permanent exclusivity?

Because without proof, then your rebuttal just falls into a pile already overflowing with obtuse opinions already laid out on this subject.

[Rachie Stout]

How is it false? They would've gotten DG on the same day or within a week, only it would launch for everyone.


False. 360 players have paid for tons of DLC that PC and (sometimes) PS3 players got for free in patches. See: Left 4 Dead.

MS also forces updates to add ads. You're delusional if you think Microsoft even slightly cares about their LIVE customers.



So was Left 4 Dead's major 360 update illegal?

Microsoft: "Oh, here's some free DLC. That'll be $20, svckers. Keep payin' for peer to peer multiplayer too, lol."



In all fairness my launch PS2 still works. My RL friend has been through 4 360s though, one of which he had to buy because MS refused the warranty twice even though it was E74.



If you're perfectly okay with supporting these kinds of practices, sure. The 360 is one of the single most toxic gaming products to ever see release thanks to how M$ has mis-used the added influence and abused their closed platform. What could possibly go wrong if the next one is successful too?

Well, I guess we'll get to see if they follow through with their plans for in-game advertising. Supposedly it's only for loading screens, but I'm willing to bet a month later some hacker / modder would figure out and prove that the loading times are artificially extended to make sure the full ad plays.

In any case, I don't think Bethesda is faultless. I think Microsoft bears most of the guilt (you know, as the instigator), but to say Beth is innocent is a stretch since they are complicit.

IN GAME ADDS!!!!!! **** that!!!!

I would never buy an Xbox again if there are in game adds! I don't mind them on the main menu I actually see stuff I like or interested in usually, but in game HELL NO!

As a DG beta tester I felt quite happy owning an Xbox for the first time ever, and Although I think the 30 day exclusive completely svcks and is stupid! I can see why Beth took the money, their a company they need money so i don't blame them.

But Micro$oft ate pricks and I will not be giving them my money when the new system comes out with in game ADDS! Greedy bastards won't even let me use my Netflix or Hulu account without their stupid Gold member.

[Robert DeLarosa]

Time was you'd have to buy a PC if you wanted to play a TES game full stop.

Still do, in a way.

[Mashystar]

IN GAME ADDS!!!!!! **** that!!!!

I would never buy an Xbox again if there are in game adds! I don't mind them on the main menu I actually see stuff I like or interested in usually, but in game HELL NO!

As a DG beta tester I felt quite happy owning an Xbox for the first time ever, and Although I think the 30 day exclusive completely svcks and is stupid! I can see why Beth took the money, their a company they need money so i don't blame them.

But Micro$oft ate pricks and I will not be giving them my money when the new system comes out with in game ADDS! Greedy bastards won't even let me use my Netflix or Hulu account without their stupid Gold member.

I agree, in games ads would be HORRIBLE. Fact is, this is the first I've heard of it and it sounds like a potentially lucrative business move for all gaming companies

I suppose I could deal with it on loading screens. It would still be annoying though, "oh look, your product is in my game and I STILL don't want it!". At least itd be less intrusive than cold calling...

EDIT: hahaa touché zinthros

[Nitol Ahmed]

I agree, in games ads would be HORRIBLE. Fact is, this is the first I've heard of it and it sounds like a potentially lucrative business move for all gaming companies

I suppose I could deal with it on loading screens. It would still be annoying though, "oh look, your product is in my game and I STILL don't want it!". At least itd be less intrusive than cold calling...

EDIT: hahaa touché zinthros

I couldn't deal with it on loading screens, I'm not really an hardcoe RPGer but it will ruin immersion (we are TES fans after all) Besides its just plain greedy! I don't care how much a gaming computer will be I'm buying it of both xbox 720 or PS4 have adds in their games.

?????? ????? ???

[Sammykins]

I couldn't deal with it on loading screens, I'm not really an hardcoe RPGer but it will ruin immersion (we are TES fans after all) Besides its just plain greedy! I don't care how much a gaming computer will be I'm buying it of both xbox 720 or PS4 have adds in their games.

?????? ????? ???

We'll see. I imagine there has been a pretty overwhelmingly negative response to this possibility, so that should make MS and Sony stop and think. The sad fact is though, who says this wouldn't extend onto PC as well?

[Tiffany Holmes]

We'll see. I imagine there has been a pretty overwhelmingly negative response to this possibility, so that should make MS and Sony stop and think. The sad fact is though, who says this wouldn't extend onto PC as well?

Your probably right, which is pretty sad
But I would hope they don't do it. Besides I'm thinking about getting a gaming PC anyway, just for mods and better visuals. I hope PC games don't do this.

[Claire Mclaughlin]

Actually, MS was fined lots and lots of money for doing very similar things to get Windows into the position it's in today. Paying and otherwise incentivising software devs to delay / cancel software for Mac OS and Linux ...

But it's okay, because despite video games being a multi billion dollar industry they're apparently not serious . Well, we'll see how long that lasts.

MS was fined because they held a near monopoly in the OS market. Microsoft's competitors were able to continue their incentive programs with business partners. That is not nearly the case in the Home Entertainment Console market.

From my view, the marketing plans change margin, which is good for the company, no mistake, and it makes their overall return much nicer, but it's not really a case of 'Well we need to make up the million dollar usd exclusivity money by raising the cost 10$ per unit.' [numbers are magical and worthless] With luxury products [especially luxury digital products], the driving market force is how much the consumer is willing to pay.

I don't see exclusivity going away either, it's a good sign of a competitive marketplace between the hardware.

Although, one more remark, don't think that when Dawnguard is released on PC/PS3, that it's going to have fewer bugs, my experience tends to be that the exclusivity period doesn't result in more bugfixes :/.

[Rhi Edwards]

Your probably right, which is pretty sad
But I would hope they don't do it. Besides I'm thinking about getting a gaming PC anyway, just for mods and better visuals. I hope PC games don't do this.

I'm heading to my local computer fair after I get paid to see if I can find a cheap tower I can use to thrash Civ. Highly unlikely I'll find one that could manage skyrim though

I hope NO gaming platforms do this!

[Matt Gammond]

I'm heading to my local computer fair after I get paid to see if I can find a cheap tower I can use to thrash Civ. Highly unlikely I'll find one that could manage skyrim though

I hope NO gaming platforms do this!

This already happens on existing gaming platforms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-game_advertising#Dynamic_in-game_advertising

Right now they're pretty much, but you also have companies like doublefusion who do rather indepth ones. There are some fair remarks on them though.

[Rex Help]

I'm heading to my local computer fair after I get paid to see if I can find a cheap tower I can use to thrash Civ. Highly unlikely I'll find one that could manage skyrim though

I hope NO gaming platforms do this!

I'll look into PC gaming once the new consoles are out or even when the next TES comes out I'm in no rush.

And yes I hope NO one does this stupid I game add thing. Whats next adds in our dreams!

[Tessa Mullins]

Looks like Beth not only has DLC deals, but also patch deals too. PS3 still doesn't have 1.6 patch. I can't name one game I ever owned when one console received a patch while the other had to wait one month or more.

[bonita mathews]

This already happens on existing gaming platforms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-game_advertising#Dynamic_in-game_advertising

Right now they're pretty much, but you also have companies like doublefusion who do rather indepth ones. There are some fair remarks on them though.

Oh product placement is nothing new, and done correctly is non-invasive. I think we're talking more of "HEY GUYZ, WHILST YOUR GAME LOADS GO OUT AND BUY A DYSON!!" loading screen style ads. Which we (mercifully) don't have yet...

[Rhysa Hughes]

Oh product placement is nothing new, and done correctly is non-invasive. I think we're talking more of "HEY GUYZ, WHILST YOUR GAME LOADS GO OUT AND BUY A DYSON!!" loading screen style ads. Which we (mercifully) don't have yet...

Quite, although I do want to make sure I'm clear, I'm more referring to the dynamic advertising, wherein the ads in game change as advertisers change. It happened in City of Heroes specifically a while ago, nike kept trying to sell its players Jeter shoes, showed up on the in-game billboards. Much like the EA remark in that article though, they really just don't generate that much money [or return on investment].

For my own clarity sake, you're referring more to the more obtrusive methods used by many 'free' games [especially on cellphones]?

If so, while I can see that advertising being enabled in future consoles, I think we're not likely to see those in the short term except for free or freemium games. As you said, when someone puts down 60$ for a game, they don't want to click through an add for axe body spray to play their Halo.

[Arnold Wet]

Nah, just to the fact that it may be dawning on games companies that a loading screen could be gamings equivalent of TVs commercial breaks.

[sally R]

We'll see. I imagine there has been a pretty overwhelmingly negative response to this possibility, so that should make MS and Sony stop and think. The sad fact is though, who says this wouldn't extend onto PC as well?

There was an overhwelmingly negative response to paid online too. And dashboard ads. And Sony removing features with a forced update (Linux support removal).

The console companies do not care. They know that most of their audience isn't willing to go PC and that most of them aren't willing to go all Nintendo either.

Your probably right, which is pretty sad
But I would hope they don't do it. Besides I'm thinking about getting a gaming PC anyway, just for mods and better visuals. I hope PC games don't do this.

PC gamers are a lot more serious about "oh no you didn't" with big companies than console players. When there's a backlash with them it means terrible sales compared to the expected numbers. Just look at Dragon Age II, Modern Warfare 2, or Crysis 2. PC gamers hated every one of these games vehemently and they vastly undersold the previous games in their franchises. Piracy helps with that. IMO it's actually a positive effect, stopping games that, for whatever major reason, do not deserve to turn profit from becoming successful. Piracy as a whole would probably be healthy for the industry if more pirates restricting their YARRRGH ways to deserving titles like those three (albeit Crysis 2 left the list with their major PC patch). I doubt a big in-game ads thing would take off on PC, just like paid multiplayer failed when PC gamers refused to buy Halo 2 or any of the other early GFWL games.

Hell, Steam has "dashboard ads" in the sense that it opens to the store by default, but you can turn this off completely in the options along with any other form of "advertising." I can't imagine Valve doing a complete 180 and pushing in-game ads.

Anyway, my stance on in-game ads is thus: put them in sensible places and make them sensible products. Realistically placed and sized Coke billboard in a modern or near future city? No problem. Loading screens, the whole world only drinking Coke, or any other nastiness = not playing it.