I disagree. I think Bioware is showing just how faulty the formula they use in their games is with Dragon age. Unless they can breakaway from the "go to the various areas and deal with the problems; ONce that's done, time to fight the big-bad," model they use the they'll eventually have the series dwindle and die. For only a new setting can make that formula feel fresh.

Multiple paths, yea, but not if it means "good character - evil character", i hate it if THAT is their concept of a branching storyline.



Well it doesn't need to be THAT complex, it was just a example of how the story COULD have branched out. However there also was the "back path" of Morrowind which was a alternative way to play the main quest. There should at least be a back path like that.

I'll give you that one. Back path FTW!

I'm having trouble trying to see what you find faulty with something that's also used in the elder scrolls when it comes to quests? And Theda just doesn't consists of Ferelden

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/File:ThedasMap.jpg

I think this can best up my feelings of what the next ES should be in terms of story:

[BG II] allowed me freedom without a loss in quality or storytelling.

Most "free world" games nowadays have vast, empty worlds that feel more like grim homunculi draqed in the dead flesh of a living breathing world than really feeling like another world

Multiple paths that consists of alignment based choices but also branches that take into consideration a specialization.

I remember trying to follow and get into that one... But honestly, all I can think of right now is mocking that RP... What's it's current status? Dead? Concluded? Still staggering along at its "one post per month" rate?

It got VERY off-track. Up unitl about the 25th thread, though, it was great.

No, no, no, sorry but no "allignment" stuff, i HATE it when the game dictates me what decission was good and what was evil. I already hated the Fame/Infamy system of Oblivion for that.
Especially since the "bad character" path usually plays it as kinking dogs or being a complete monster.

So my call, no "good or evil" paths, just PATHS.

where the hell did i imply that? if i said that somwhere among the lines, please tell me so i can edit it out. me? i just thought out some random thing and thought that over time beth could easily make it awesome. so, to make you stop annoying me, i will think of something that will follow the lore. follow it. not mis-follow it like my other post. now good day sir

Tangent @Verlox...
After the 25th thread was when the party found itself with too much downtime and decided that then was the best time to remind people that Khajiit and Dunmer, the two races that made up ~60% of the party, are, by lore very promiscuous? Even I got sick of trying to follow the story after it went from "Next Oblivion Gate to Plow Through" to "Next time we have to pair off our characters by opposing gender to temporarily remove them from the action to not go into AO territory."

@Umbrage: Unlike Darth, I did provide a story idea. That did mesh with lore, and pointed out needed elements to make a TES game (Game Lore can be retconned. Game Spirit can't). Ergo, I am qualified to say this: Your story svcks as a TES quest.

Sorry, not intending to flame. Just paraphrasing a funny review of a stupid movie when the author attacked a critic for being "Unqualified".

What I mean is, bioware has consistently made games in which you must "go to a series of locations that all coincidentally have major problems." Its not the same formula that was used in the elder scrolls. But it is the same formula they used in KOTOR, for example. My main criticism with Dragon age is that I don't think they implemented their own overused formula very well. I'd like to see them try something else. Either more linear or a proper sandbox.

Theres more to it than just good or evil, I dont understand the whole system well enough to explain it though.Regardless, TES already sets you on the "good" path whether you wish it or not.

I think Daniel's concern is that he doesn't want to be rail-roaded into either the saintly saint of saints or the puppy murdering axe crazy psycho 'cause the devs weren't imaginative when they made a branching quest system.

I would like to bring this to everyones attention.

"Ok, I've just about had my '''FILL''' of riddle asking, quest assigning, insult throwing, pun hurling, hostage taking, iron mongering, smart arsed fools, freaks, and felons that continually test my will, mettle, strength, intelligence, and most of all, patience! If you've got a straight answer ANYWHERE in that bent little head of yours, I want to hear it pretty damn quick or I'm going to take a large blunt object roughly the size of Elminster AND his hat, and stuff it lengthwise into a crevice of your being so seldom seen that even the denizens of the nine hells themselves wouldn't touch it with a twenty-foot rusty halberd! Have I MADE myself perfectly CLEAR?!"
?The Player Character

I have to agree with this statement. Why does every place we go have to have some major problem with it? For the most part, TES avoids this sometimes. With my story/plot, I was trying to keep the urgency and plot-danger pretty low till around the 2nd third.

If they didn't have any problems the game would be over in a few minutes. And TES is guilty of doing the same thing when it comes to gaining enough disposition so you can advance in whatever quest you need to do. Like for example the gathering of the allies for Bruma. My point being is it's not exclusive to Bioware and making it more linear or open world isn't going to change that.

Yeah I understand his point and agree with him there, but if you're going to add a bunch of grey areas just to be different the two extremes need to be there also for people who want to roleplay their character that way

I also hate the "Good/Evil" Pathlines, yet I'm also not quite a fan of "Everything's a shade of gray". I prefer White and Gray morality. Being a "Paragon of Virtue" should be very much an option. It should be difficult and often unrewarding, but just as in the real world, it can come with awesome bonuses for staying on the Straight and Narrow, against temptation... A flaming blue sword and the title of Paladin would be appreciated

Exalted rules are something I love about PnP D&D...

Maybe a story where you can actually make choices that make you a "bad guy", of sorts. I've always liked movies and books that take place from the villains point of view, and there are so few of them that the idea is still somewhat original. Of course, this would be more of a choice for the player to be the "bad guy" and not so much a story. I've noticed lots of folks putting what are really just backgrounds for the PC and not stories, so I'll try and think of a possible story for an ES game......

Hmm, maybe one thats all about influencing politics or daedric princes or gods to create an outcome you want, but that wouldnt be the end of life as we know it if you dont do it, and if you dont then things carry on without you instead of time just being stopped ahem, every ES game, ahem. Also, and i'm certain this has been said before, the story should most definitely avoid the "epic battle"" cliche.

Well, thats my contribution to the thread, mightve rambled but oh well.

Note: This story assumes TES:V takes place in Skyrim.

Recent happenings: Members of the Elder Council are assassinated, leaving the Empire with no rulers. The Imperial Legion, as well as the Blades, are doing whatever they can to find the culprits. All suspects are sent, by heavily guarded caravans, to an inquisitor in Skyrim. You are one of the suspects.

~~~Player arrives at a small city in Skyrim, so the guards can restock supplies. All the prisoners are chained together and are guarded by several blades. Out of nowhere, arrows and throwing stars flutter everywhere, and the guards run out into the forest to fight the attackers. A chain of lightning flies and breaks the chains. All the other inmates run, but a mysterious spell holds you in place. A figure in a black robe and black hood slowly walks out of the shadows, draws a golden shortsword, poisons it, then as he approaches the screen fades black. You wake up sitting down in a chair, with another shady figure talking to you. "Ah, there you are... tell us a bit about yourself..." {Character menu, class menu, birthsign menu} "Very good... Now come with me, for our master is expecting you..." {Follows person to another room} "Our master... is expecting you, now..." {Player walks up to a tough looking... daedra?} "There you are, mortal. I am Rehmuhnz the Watcher, right-hand of Mehrunes Dagon... before he was banished! Ever since that day, all daedra stranded on this world joined forces with the Mythic Dawn to root out the ones responisible for Dagon's banishment... We are the Order of the Sigil, and we will flush out our enemies in a rain of blood... you shall help us in our task..."
[Why me?]
"That is not the point... Now, will you aid us, or will I flay you personally in the dungeon?"
[Join them]
[Run away or attack]

Now, to save myself the time, I shall make my leave. Goodday!

see, someone can disagree with a sense of humour! not the bluntness of some people that makes others feel dumb

...but yes, i have to agree :ninja:
i barely thought my story out, which is why it svcked. beth has years, with tons of practice :ninja:

I didn't like the intro at all. That is practically shoving a dagger down my throat.

And what up with people suggesting "its always" prison or in a form a prisoner? I never did get that part at all.

The elder scrolls series has never made it a central plot point though. (Well, Arena was a big ass fetch quest) In oblivion it was just an optional thing that actually made since strategically. (Mehrunes is gunning for Bruma and the heir, so he launches diversionary assaults with his limitless forces until the gates can be opened) Bioware has made it their central plot point to go to the several areas and solve their problems then kill the big-bad. I think they need some new flavor to their designs.

I'd just like to see more political nuances in the next game, honestly.

I loved that in Morrowind you had to actually choose which Great House to belong to, and once that decision was made you could not (with the exception of glitches and exploits) join another. The differences were just too great. Flash forward to Cyrodill and you can become a member of every Count's court, and run errands for them. I'd rather see two or three well made political factions than ten or fifteen petty jobs that don't conflict one another.

I'd also like to see more role playing options in the main quest - decisions and alternate dialogue that actually MEANS something. We didn't even really get this in Morrowind. You could either complete the main quest, or screw it up. That's it. No possibility of an "evil" ending. I like the idea that I could side with the baddies if I want. Sure, there should be political ramifications for such a choice, such as not being able to come near civilization.

I only used one example for Oblivion. You're trying to criticize Bioware by saying they don't make there stories so shallow that when someone tells you to do something it's as easy as it sounds. With the main quest of Oblivion I was constantly doing fetch quests for Martin to get what he needed to open the portal to Paradise. Before that when I requested him I had to close a gate. The Shivering Isles is guilty of this as well same with Morrowind. It's not exclusive to Bioware and it's not a bad thing. It stretches out the plot and adds in some background information as well as allows for the player to establish some sort of relationship with whoever he's working with to meet a goal. You probably don't notice it in a ES game because it's a lot easier to get sidetracked if you don't want to do something in a ES game than it is in a Bioware game, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exists.

Time to review your next intro idea:


While this is nice for setting up the scene... it's screams "Expository Cutscene!" Don't make a non-interactive part of the game interactive... people will sue the creator for making them break their keyboards or controllers as they mash all the buttons in frustration to skip watching this for the 100th time... Also... as Qawsed mentioned, it unnecessarily forces a background on your character.


This is possibly where the game should begin... you can fill in the blank as to how you got here yourself... Mild amnesia is implied. Of course, the problem with this quest is that it forces you full-thrust into the MQ immediately. And... either Stupid Dictation of Allegiance or a "Very Short Main Quest" makes it unfeasable due to the ability for the player to "Join them", get released into the sandbox, quickly abuse the trust of the Mythic Morons, then report them and their plans to the nearest army captain looking for public support... Captain brings his legion to flush out and destroy the scattered cultists, becomes a hero in the eyes of the people, and your character goes back home, a mild footnote in the script of the Elder Scrolls without so much as a name given.