I hadn't read your most recent post when I made mine. It's still rather generic, but that's not the main problem with it, the main reason why it wouldn't work for an Elder Scrolls game. What is the primary problem is that it tells you what your character wants (revenge). One of the most important concepts in a series like The Elder Scrolls is that YOU decide what your character wants. You, the player, decide his (or her) ambitions, hopes, desires, disposition, morality, etc. Once the game starts deciding for you, it begins to become a story driven game like the Bioware RPGs rather than the true sandbox game that The Elder Scrolls games are supposed to be.

I actually found it pretty good, I don't understand what you mean by it being easy, and how that goes over into the quality of the story. What's you're definition of a casual player anyways, I don't find Oblivion a casual game.



Caring seems like something that should be determined by the character that you're playing, they aren't gonna make me care, if my character sees no value in what is a stake, or is simply a careless person.



How you deal with the mythic dawn also depends on your character as well, I mean you actually don't have to kill anybody at all, unless that is what your character would do. Baurus doesn't die if you don't let him die, and after that, you can go up and get some skill boosts from him as thanks, and even after that, he will be help you through the game, even in the last quests of the main quest.



I'm pretty sure you can have baurus with you while you defending bruma. If he survives that is.

There's a verson out for the PC.

but this would over-the-top conflicting with my rping

i dont rp as a farmer, im a lord, a heroic lord who goes out and defends his city-to-be town. at age 15. heroic lord at age 15. im not a farmer im a lord. at age 15. im a 15 year old lord defending his town, not a farmer.

or, my argonian mage, setting out with the lord who metes out justice, to unlock the secrets of the world.

or my khajiiti thief, who steals to survive, and seeks to find his fortune by travelling with the argonian mage and the lord.

im full of cliche, but its not as cliche as being a farmer

in fact my story can be found http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1065219&st=0&start=0. (scroll down to mah post)

I like Zalphon idea for Oblivions story and think that the same idea should be applied to TESV. Instead of a whole "OMG! Deadra! and once you stop the crisis everything is fine" focus more on the politics and interactions between the different cities. The whole save the world idea is great, but not when thats the only thing in the story. More focus on the smaller things would make the story more realistic.

I would imagine IF it is set is Skyrim, have more focus on the political aspect, and more choices. Some people dont like bieng stuck as the "savior of mankind" charecter, and it doesnt fit many roleplays. If the story had more options and choices, choices that would affect the outcome of the story, it would create story that is more dynamic and realistic, and more interesting at the same time.

That sounds good.

A political powerstruggle between whatever factions and the player affecting the out come comes to mind. With added choices and consequences, sometimes even unexpected consequences.

[A crude example]
Get rid of two rival oppressors struggling over the rule of the land and give the power to the people. A seemingly good deed, but causes the region to fall in anarchy because the people - having lived ages under a stric rulers and laws - don't know how to cope without them and start pillaging and fighting over power them selves eventually ending up in the same situation you just solved. On the other hand, help either of the "oppressors" to the power and the end result has both good and bad sides which are up to the player to decide whether or not they are preferable.
[/End of crude example.]

So far, the OP has proven the opposite point of what he set out to do with this thread... His story ideas cannot be considered "Good" for a TES game, partially because as Umbrage has pointed out, you need to start at a point where you could have been "Anyone" prior to game start.

I'm going to use the respective "meh" and "horrible" qualities of Star Trek I and V to defend the Developer's position. The first Star Trek movie was bankrolled, production started, but they had no script. The entire movie was based around the premise that "Star Trek can't go Wrong". They finally worked out a script that was "Not great, it works, it fits the Mythos, and won't entirely disappoint the fans". We got "Meh". The lesson: Don't start spending money until you have a workable idea, and don't rush the brainstorming.

Star Trek V ran off with the premise you suggested. By then, the Star Trek movies were an established franchise, continuously cranking out New Star Trek movies while the profits supported them. So they said, "We need a script and fast"... So they bought William Shatner's on-the-spot. The Executive Producer, upon learning they were stuck with it, threw a fit and tried to cut down on the glaring "Un-Star-Trek" qualities, but it was unsalvagable. So, the Star Trek fandom got hit with the Worst Star Trek Movie ever. I find this a very appropriate parallel to draw, considering that we are working on the Fifth mainstream Elder Scrolls installment. Your "story" ideas stink as bad as Shatners for different reasons.

Important elements for TES stories include:
1. A generic start such as a prison, ship, or similar area anyone could be for any reason, regardless of background or actions. Boat on Morrowind and Daggerfall, Prison in Arena and Oblivion.

Example: You start on a ship bound for a small town in Skyrim. You generate your character, it gets attacked by Pirates, you can either hack your way to the Lifeboats (Fighter), Sneak past the action to the Lifeboats (Thief), Offer magic support to clear a path to the lifeboats (Mage), Kill all the Pirates and abandon the inevitably doomed ship (Heroic [censored]), or just kill everyone aboard before abandoning the ship (Sociopathic [censored]).

2. Slow start based around an impersonally personal relation with someone. Caius Cosades from TES III, Jauffre/Martin in TES IV, any of the powers of the Illiac Bay in TES II, or Ria Silmane in TES: Arena.

Example: You were on the boat to visit a friend acquaintance in a small town in Skyrim. When you arrive, you find him murdered, and if you search the place out of curiosity, it's not hard to learn he was secretly a member of the Blades, with information to allow the player to contact his superior and rough details of his mission conveniently available. This would allow the player, if he were so inclined, to start the Main Quest by speaking with this Superior, and taking over your friend/acquaintence's position... All four numbered TES games take this start.

3. The plot is more than it initially seems. Not seen in TES I, but TES II had the awakening of Numidium and discovery of the Mantella Crux, when you only went there to put a ghost to rest and destroy a "personal, sentimental letter". TES III had mild Blades tasks to learn about a prophesy to lead to the Awakening of Red Mountain and Horrible Truth of the Sixth House. Oblivion's is actually more dramatic and complex, but the engine makes it too obvious too soon (Inventory Window Spoiler for the lose)

My example: Your excursions for the Blades to evaluate the crumbling Empire's situation in Skyrim, eventually lead to learning that there are several dissident Nordic Warlords and Nobles on the brink of successful secession. This can also be learned just from freelancing, albeit at a slower rate. Once you learn of the schemes, you can choose to side with any of the numerous factions, sort of like the Plot of Daggerfall. As another twist, as the story progresses, you learn that there are spies and Advance Scouts from Akavir, either Tsaesci or Ka'Po'Tun, who are going to invade shortly. You can even have the option to join them, on the condition you and those you indicate will be spared in the invasion.

4. Eventual World-changing scale/disruption of the Status Quo. This is mandatory in all TES games. In Arena, you overthrew Jagar Tharn, but the events cause the empire to fracture, weaker than before. In TES II, you change the political dynamic of the entire Illiac Bay, though that gets a Cosmic Retcon. In TES III, you save the world from Dagoth Ur's Zombie Apocolypse, while overthrowing Morrowind's tribunal. In Cyrodil, you stop Dagon from destroying Tamriel again, but the empire is still on the verge of collapse.

My example: Your actions lead to Skyrim being dominated by your chosen faction. Either a Warlord/Greater Noble conquers the land and the Akaviri remain a looming threat, the vestigial Empire consolidates its hold on Skyrim, creating a strong Skyrim/Cyrodillic empire, or the Akaviri come in and establish a powerful foothold in Skyrim.

5. An ending that can be declared "canon" as long as it's assumed the player does the Main Quest. Jagar Tharn was overthrown, Morrowind is in a state of Disarray, Dagoth Ur Lost, Almalexia and Sotha Sil are dead, and the Septim Line is at an end, with the Empire crumbling. We don't want a Dragon Break as seen in Daggerfall.

My example's canon storyline has Akavir win, then lose, then assimilate for a metastable situation. Pretty much, the game ends in a full war between Akavir and Tamriel, they eventually brush away the remains of the empire but lack the manpower to prevent a rebellion from driving the most obstinate Akaviri off, while a vast number remain and become part of a new series of cultures.

Also, judging from the sheer number of high-quality fanfics based on the Oblivion Crisis, that is an awesome story, just poorly executed.

Save the world stories are clich?. Some guy that manages to get out of prison suddenly is the one and only that can save the whole universe from supreme demigod.

All I ask is that the person(s) who write the story for the new TES game would be bit more original and come up with story that hasn't been done by pretty much every western RPG there is.

This man, with his five points, speaks truth. The particulars of whatever story are largely irrelevant in my view, so long as they uphold those.



The only other thing I would stress for a better story is moral convolution and ambiguity present all over the place. One of Oblivion's larger failings, in my book, was the saturation of good vs evil in virtually everything it touched (world vs daedra, MG vs necromancers, etc).

Adding another point, to crown off my story:

6. A memorable, awesome End-Game fight of epic quality to make the MQ truly worth doing. Morrowind was full of these (Almalexia, Dagoth Ur, Hircine). Redguard had a Fight with a Dragon and eventually the Governer Himself. Battlespire let us down here by having us Talk Dagon To Death, but there were memorable instances before that. Arena had the Showdown with Jagar Tharn.

My example: when the full-scale War breaks out in Skyrim, the Empire calls in a Lore-Friendly Imperial Dragon just to be awesome. If you are with the Empire, by then you would have been proven worthy of fighting alongside and possibly even riding the magnificent icon of Imperial power. If you are against the Empire, you get the honor of killing both the Dragon and the morale of all that remains of the Empire. (Dragons, when handled properly, ARE AWESOME. Just ask Cyrus the Restless, and Prince Atorr. And Dragon Riders were an elite faction of Battlemages prior to Tharn's rule. And yes, there are Dragons in Tamriel! They aren't the symbol of the Empire for nothing!) Call it a fantasy cliche, but it would still be 100% lore-friendly. And Fun. And Awesome.

You start off as a regular character. You can choose the town in which you want to live. You begin to play as the character in this town, it becomes your home. You get a job, the town becomes yours as much as anyone elses. You begin to know it and love it, maybe even a few other characters in it. After a certain amount of time has progressed or you have reached a certain status within the town, a force come through. Pillaging your village, your home, your friends, your family (If you chose to have one). This would trigger your emotional involvement (hopefully), and you would truly want revenge instead of being tasked to do so. So you would have to go through and eliminate this force on your own terms. You won't be some big hero that is like Hercules. You will be a nobody, taking matters into your own hands. Maybe you'll make some new friends, allies and acquaintances along the way.

"Twenty Minutes with Jerks" in the "Doomed Hometown" stories is a bad story idea, considering it's based on the premise that the "Real" story doesn't happen until "The event"... The five minutes going through customs at the beginning of Morrowind is enough to drive me crazy... Having to got through 3-4 hours of gametime to test out a new character would make me put the game down.

My story idea averts the "Get on with it" problem.

Yes, I agree with this fully.

What did you mean with this?

Ok, you are in jail or a carriage full of people travelling along the road. People or one person in the same cell with you wake you up and tell you to do things (pick up, etc) The jail or carriage gets attacked and everyone escapes (movement) but it seems that the people who attacked the carriage or jail didn't want to free you, they want to kill everyone (combat) because they want to send a threat message to X city. You and others escape but fall down a (cliff?) and thus have to help each other get out of the dungeon and avoid traps. You may talk to your friends (speech) and use items around the dungeon (inventory and magic) and as soon as you get out, you are far enough away from the attack, you may go anywhere you want. (The attackers go back to their own city or country, whatever, while the carriage or jail is left destroyed for you to see.)

Later in the game, when you find someone in need of help, they ask you if you want to join brotherhood guild or fighters guild (NOT final guild choices but more of a karma thing) and they tell you to follow them into X room.
The guild leader reveals that there is a conspiracy against X and that you are needed to help stop it. 20 guild members are sent with you and you are told to either dig under city X to assassinate X or fight and help X. After the mission is over, you are rewarded and they help you on whatever you wish to do. (mages guild or whatever else)

*later in the game*

You discover that you have been used by these two guilds (or one) and you need to defend yourself against X. You rush to the area of defense but are quickly outnumbered. You escape but everyone in the clan dies. (Building still stands so you can use stuff)
You are recruited as a spy to find out what happened etc etc and you can decide whose side to join for X. (Is it evil or good to you to join side with conspiracy or to not believe it?)

*ending*

You fight whose side you did not wish to join because of X. Suddenly there is explosion and your own side fights you (if evil or if good, alternate endings) and the opposite side starts to help you. (You choose who wins.)

How is that? Choices between good and evil and a double spy sets up a potential backbone for a story. (Like two conspiracies at once and you have to decide what is morally good for you)



Povuholo: He means what is used in the main quest is spoiled too early. Like Imperial Dragon Armour shows empire wins after battle. stuff like that.

Well I thought only the beginning was something that's been done before. I dont know much about Skyrim after Oblivion to have really elaborated the way I wanted too

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. The whole Divinely chosen, unstoppable, immortalized hero figure is overplayed and in my opinion boring. Starting as a regular Joe-Schmoe would make the game more immersive. Say you start the game coming over the mountain pass, and you come into Skyrim as an "outsider" of sorts(kind of like Morrowind I know) and you can choose to join all the guilds available in that city. The Main quest wouldnt start right of the bat and slam you right in the face, instead it would require you to become part of the community, by increasing guild rank, accruing wealth, ect., and after you gain some fame points(or infamy ) the main storys plot would begin to come into play.

I feel that the would increase immersion, and if Beth made the Main Quest play out based on your choices early in the game and effect the end, it would also increase replay value. Of course you wouldnt be confined to said small city, and you can go and do what you please, but I think that Bethesda should make the main quest contain a lot of interaction between the different citys of the region, and have interesting plot twists that keep the quest interesting.

Edit- Typos and made it easier to read

Exactly, my earlier post wasn't a literal translation. I was just trying to get the idea out that there is too much Epic Hero stuff. Let's tone it down a bit and make it a little deeper.

1. Excuse me if the very beginning of the plot has a slight resemblance to Fallout 3
2. Also note that this is just the beginning to a main plot, I could not flesh out a whole plot in under an hour
3. Also note I just kinda conjured up (excuse the pun) the idea of a necromancer army, just in general any large opposing force to your homeland

You start out in a village as a young child playing in a school yard after school. A teacher walks up to you and asks your name (you choose your name), then the teacher informs you that your parents are here to take you home for the day. There is a group of parents you must go to and (race selection) you must choose who your parents are. You go home with them, its your birthday (choose your birth sign) you eat dinner etc, and go to sleep. (Time Lapse). You wake up as an advlt. Your parents (now they look older) inform you that since you are of age you must report to the capital city for military training. As a parting gift they give you an ancient family heirloom for good luck. You and your friends meet in the village square and set off for the capital. In route your party is attacked by a strange animal (of about the strength of a mud crab). Your party quickly kills it but someone gets injured in the process. You run ahead with half of the party to find a basic health potion. You find the capital city as darkness quickly approaches, the gates close and your pleas to help your friends are ignored due to the fact of an army of necromancers is advancing from that direction. You are told that your friends are likely dead by now and you must go to the training session to be ready to defend the city. Once at the training session (basic tutorial) you get a quick introduction to each skill and you get to choose your major attributes. After the class you are sent to the barracks for dinner and sleep. In the middle of the night your instructor comes in with the dreadful news that the necromancers have breached the outer walls and the new recruits are needed to help defend the city. You and the other recruits assemble on a castle wall to repel the ghouls and spell-casters who are climbing over the walls. The other recruits each die from from various causes and you are the only one left pushing the ladders off the walls and hitting anything that decides to come over the wall until a mage blasts you into the air with some sort of spell and you fall off into the castle moat. As your body drifts away, you pass out. You wake up as an Argonian pulls you out of the river, he was on his way to the capital to enlist in the military. You have floated for many miles (leagues, kilometers, etc) and are very sick, pass out again. You wake up in an Argonian village (where you confirm your name, race, skills, birth sign, etc). You must report to the village elders with news of what happened at the capital. After this you are given $400 (for supplies) and a map to scout out the state of the capital with another Argonian who pulled you from the river.

As you approach the capital giant plumes of smoke engulf the capital and as you notice the creature of the necromancers patrolling the walls, your worst fears are confirmed that the capital has fallen. You and your Argonian friend are ambushed by two patrolling scamps, in the fray your companion is killed. You report back to the Argonian village with the horrific news and you are advised to go to another city where you might be safe.


I really don't have enough time to flesh out a whole main plot but basically the rest of the game would be your quest to prevent the spread of this army by stealth or brute force. Some quests would involve taking back territory and others would involve invading necromancer's homeland (a network of caves, a parallel world). A quest involving the journey into a deep cave that eventually led to the underworld where the final boss might lurk? There are so many options that I can't begin to list them all and those finer details are for game developers, like at Bethesda, to figure out.

Sorry OP but that story you posted is the same as every generic fantasy game/movie/book out there.

Mr Pete the farmer lost his family, Oh no!, now he becomes a god and kills his enemies!

Blah, this is turning from "whole storyline" to which "intro will fit best".

Many of these intro ideas practically force background into the PC.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075029/

:P

Do you care to write out something interesting? And you can't say the past elder scrolls games didnt already force background onto a character whether it be from working in service of the emperor to being some guy who got a jail sentence.

But that's not forcing a background. At all. In every TES game you start in a prison (except for Morrowind where you are being released via boat) and your past is up to you. Whether you were falsely imprisoned, etc.

Not in TES:II. You were taking a ship to the bay area (not as a prisoner), ran into a really bad storm, and ended up in a cave after swimming for hours in order to get to land and escape the wreckage and storm.