I think it's not just a case of skill levels, or rose-tinted nostalgia. But also of people having different standards.

Like, back when I was shopping for some "good" (ha! my budget was $50 ) headphones, I went googling for reviews. And I kept stumbling upon uber-audiophile sites with incredibly-high-standards folks talking about how such-and-such headphones were stabbed-in-the-ear-with-an-icepick terrible because of some variance and cutoff in the upper end of a couple frequency ranges. Meanwhile, to your normal listener, they're probably great headphones, because they can't even notice that & hey - it sounds better than the crap headset that came with their mp3 player.

So yeah. For someone who's really practiced at twitch-military-MP-"trained my muscle memory to headshot"-pvp shooters? The shooting here is probably tough to deal with. Meanwhile, for those of us who just play some FPS sometimes, and thought that Bioshock/Borderlands/(insert pedestrian shooter here) were great? It's just fine.

Me, I'm in that second group. I'm not having any issues with the shooting, except for the delay sometimes when switching weapons. But, then, I don't generally notice mouse acceleration, and thought the shooting was good in FO3, too.

I'm going to start this game today on PS4. I'm sure it'll be just what I expect: Very much a Fallout game, but more on the shooter side and less on the rpg side. It will play beautifully and yet disappoint at the same time.

What I keep hearing from people is "well, I have settlements going for me". I love the settlements feature, too, but even without having played it yet I think that's a terrible reason to give long-time Fallout fans and CRPG fans something to hold on to. While it's something that should be in the game and is good, where's the depth of character building in the entire game?

Of course I don't know yet. I'll be having fun regardless, I know that.

Go play Fallout 3 again then if you just want more of the same [censored].

Proclaiming to the world; i havent liked bethesdas versions of fallout - yet i'll still buy them, play them, then complain because i assume bethesda is wholly dependant on making the game satisfactory for ME (when yknow.. theyre trying to please upwards of 10 million people..)

If you dont like the fallouts bethesda produce - and you knew this before even buying 4 - why bother buying it only to complain about the forum?

Like those people on steam who sunk 250 hours in within the first 2 weeks then wrote a bad review because "the games so bad its unplayable".. Well, 250 hours for a game isnt too bad is it?
￡40 ÷ 250 = ________

I agree, its not what i expected but its still a good game.

You just svck at FPS games OP or/and have terrible hand eye coordination, ive been playing FPS since Wolfenstein 3D and FO4 has some of the best FPS mechanics around that even put non RPGs to shame.

I only knew I didn't like Fallout 3. Are you telling me I shouldn't have come into the new game with an open mind? I try very hard to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I bothered buying the game because it is the new Fallout game and I am a longstanding Fallout fan. As for spending an adequate amount of time playing it, I've always thought being well-informed about a given topic is the best way to approach discussing said topic. ˉ\_(ツ)_/ˉ

Well if you didnt enjoy 3, bethesda NEVER advertised fallout 4 as being completely different to 3, they only noted the new features.
You cant expect the same studio within 7 years to COMPLETELY change how they produce a game just because the whiny few who already knew they didnt enjoy bethesdas games will
A - buy something that was advertised as a sequel of sorts to the previous game
B - is made by the very same studio you appear to hate

End of the day, if you dont like it - sell it and good riddance from the forums. You wont be missed.

I dunno, Holmes. 7 years is quite a long time. Look what Obsidian did in under 2. And in fact, many things which made me hate Fallout 3 have been nixed or improved upon. I don't hate Fallout 4. I just don't quite like it. It was a very listless experience for me. Akin to a flavorless meal. And I hate to tell you I'd rather discuss why I feel that way amongst other forum members than simply walk away. Fallout's always been a favorite hobby of mine, and that includes discussing and debating it on the various forums who've hosted it along the way. You should have seen the boards back when Fallout 2 was in development. Or Van Buren for that matter. This is all very tame by comparison. ˉ\_(ツ)_/ˉ

I really cant related with any of the OP point, i mean combat probably is the best part on Fallout 4 game, is a huge improve over 3 and NV.

Only significant issue i find with the game was the dialogue but i can live with it.

Obsidian isnt a large brand name anymore. Never really was. The games youre referring to by them were
A - franchised already and had an idea of how they wanted to progress
B - were an entirely different form of roleplaying experience anyway
Bethesda who have a solid fanbase cant just up and change their entire game design due to a small percentage of players because most actually enjoy their games.

If you were a fan of fallout 3 - whom the intended market is - they upgraded EVERYTHING a genuine fan complained about, not the people who sink hundreds of hours in to then turn around and say "its an awful game"

I get what you mean.. Kinda. I expected different. But its still a good game, you voiced your complaints stating you HATED it.

I Mean.. Would you rather fallout 3 gun mechanics or fallout 4 gun mechanics? Because there is a clear improvement.

I don't remember every single thing I've said, but I'm fairly certain I didn't say that.

?Also: The only Obsidian game I was referring to is New Vegas. In under two years time Obsidian managed to make a game truer to the roots of 'Fallout' than Bethesda managed to accomplish in 7 years. My point is that it is entirely reasonable for me to have expected more out of this game.

You have further confirmed what we already know; you're biased and have a very selective "hearing".
So.. Youre either a hardc0re rpg fan and hate how streamlined its became or played fallout original and feel the same as an RPG fan.

Youre pre-disposed to "not liking" bethesda and regardless of what obsidian do - even if its a reskin of bethesdas game with a few new features - youll love it. Why? Because screw logic and buissness-related sence.

Because.. Well. Fallout NV was literally JUST a re-itteration of fallout 3 with a FEW select differences - which were kept in fallout 4.

When new vegas came out.. Well. It was criticised for being a revamped fallout 3 and to me, it felt like a decently modded fallout 3. Enjoyed it but it wasnt a leap from bethesda..

Honestly, the only thing obsidian did better in that game was their references and use of weapon mods. Otherwise, it was just a revamp.

You cant use fallout new vegas as the SOLE reference for obsidians work because.. It wasnt their engine. And its not their franchise anymore.

Again, instead of complaining - sell the game and begone from these freakin' forums. Im sorry to say but bethesda DOES NOT care about the select few like you that play the game - yet constantly slander it and the devs. I highly doubt they could do anything to please you because "it could ALWAYS be better"

There is no pleasing people like you.

what's the difference between Fallout 3 and New Vegas that so many people talk of? °_°

they're basically the same games gameplay wise

Obsidian just continued to do what Bethesda did with 3 and released an improved version of the content that Fallout 3 had to offer

the world had more to offer, there were more characters, more quests... which is reasonable when you consider that NV came out a few years later than 3

but gameplaywise it's the same game?

Combat is amazing, so many options!

Lets see:

- sneak is very viable and fleshed out, there are perks that help with sneak, upping the sneak damage, allow to plant explosives on unsuspecting targets, stealthboy is always fun to use (especially in a pinch), rehide is viable

- cover mechanics are usable

- weapons can cripple enemy limbs, disarm, knockdown

- gun bash, grenades, mines, drugs, pacify and command, (are also great and very useful and spice up the combat)

- variety of mods for a prefered style of gunning (reflex sight anyone?), or beating your opponents senseless (bleed, stun)

- some great legendary weapon and armor bonuses (albeit some are abit too goofy for my taste)

I only scoff at:

- default reload speed is too fast for my taste

- perks rising weapon damage (would prefer if perks would for instance raise only accuracy, trick shot capabilities on criticals (knockdown, disarm, weapon destroy, knockout, instant death, limb severing, confusion, bleed...)

I wish for:

- dodge, I have seen enemies use it, so why isn't is available for player character?

What changed?

- Narrative design (coices and consequences)

- Quest design (multi path / multi solution)

- Companion systems and characterization

- World and NPC characterization

- Dialog system (the use of character skills and stats)

...well, writing overall...

- The HC mode and the gameplay changes it provided

- The usage of the character systems (SPECIAL and skills +TRAITS)

- Crafting system

- Armor systems design

- Little miscellaneous bits here and there (like skill and stat requirements for weapons, special attacks for melee, and such)

...and I might be forgetting some stuff too

It is true that on the outset the core minute to minute gameplay is very much the same as in Fallout 3 (which is a shame as far as I'm concerned) - if you had a green tint and went to the game or watched a video of it not knowing what it is, you might mistake it for Fallout 3 - but all those little changes combined provided a lot fuller and appropriate to the series experience even with the (unfortunate) shortcomings.

It's mostly in the quest design & dialogue - more intertwined quests, and more skill & stat checks in the conversations. Which I doubt anyone expected here, because that was the main "Obsidian" thing that they brought to the game.

The other little details.... ammo types & ammo crafting, tedious-eat-and-sleep mode.... those are just little tweaks, but they're ones some people liked.

I've never heard you mention this Obsidian or New Vegas before. Please tell me more.

I can't believe I must say this,

Fallout 4 is harder than any fallout game, especially in the beginning. True it become easy in the end (damage and def modifier from weapon mod up to several levels, perks up to 5 levels, crit boost, legendary effect) but that because you want's it in the first place. That happened to other FO too.

I died more often in FO4 than FO3 and FO:NV.

Enemy AI is much more refined, they hide and shoot, back off when health low and use a stimpack, use grenades, hide when they know being sniped.

What I complain is aiming in 3rd person view not as accurate than aiming in 1st person view.

So far combat is more refined than before.

I think Survival difficulty is enough right now, I want hardcoe mode in FO:NV to be implemented though, feel like playing simulation too, just don't make companions kill-able I want to reduce the need of reloading for unnecessary things (like when companion go away and killed themselves).

Yes, there are many improvements which I didn't mention, because I'm speaking mostly about the core of a FPS, the aiming mechanics. However, it's funny you should mention the NPCs hiding, because that's partly what makes the game so easy. They conveniently poke their heads out, giving even the world's worst FPSer all the time in the world to train his crosshairs onto their juicy heads. They should look out from behind cover, fire a quick shot, then immediately go back into proper hiding. This would be the kind of tweak which might improve survival; instead of making skulls out of titanium carbide, make the NPCs not expose said skulls in such a stupid fashion.

I dont know i think both game are different.

Ppl should stop comparing it with NV, bc obsidian didnt make alot on 2 years, bc they get the engine and the tec from Bethesda, really they only focus on make the game. And they still fail to make the world feel good like any Bethesda game do. Yeah the "narrative" is better on NV but that it.

Just to nitpick here total hours of playtime =/= total hours of enjoyment

Steam shows I have 155 hours of play time when I really have 111 hours and 15 minutes of actual game time per my save file (which includes AFK time.). I haven't had 111 hours of entertainment. I would put it closer to around 70, due to bugs, fighting the settlement system before using TCL to make it places junk fences correctly, going through the motions of repeatable quests, me breaking the game by disabling shaun and nora in the intro, etc.

I honestly think people who spend a lot of time playing the game are able to get a more in-depth understanding of the game and can write a better review than someone who played only say 40 hours, or just rushed the main quest line. Bethseda games require a large time sink to get a full review. I am leaning the game is above average at best, so 7 or 7.5 out of 10. It does a lot of things good but not great, I wouldn't call it the best game of the year, or the best RPG of the year. It is an above average game that follows a lot of bethseda's design tropes. "wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle".

I will say the gunplay is improved but still feels meh to me personally, but I am someone who was spoiled by mods like weapons of new millenia.

Isn't this what the AI did now?

If by proper hiding you mean keep changing hiding place I agree. They change behavior but not so often.

But that AI still can be wrecked with a reckon scope.

Try to make rule or play style that you need most.

add : at least when hiding they don't want to get shoot so bad like the other Fallout games.

Yes

No

Question

Sarcastic <------

The way i play my character. I like you Setokaiba, you get me!

Well that wasn't the question I was answering. The merits of New Vegas over Fallout 4 or vice versa if you will, is another topic. As far as I am concerned, Fallout 4 improves on nothing but trivialities (like graphics, enhancing the crafting system like you pointed out, and such). From my experience (both played and witnessed) the dialog system is a travesty, so is the new perk system, the companions act like monkeys, the story and writing ranges generally between awful and subpar, and the world is once again disjointed and overcrowded... and so on and so forth. What it does excell on is being a lot better open world FPS game.

This is all subjective and very vague, though. There's no argument for merits one way or another. You say "I like this and that" I say "I don't".