Can someone explain the whole Steam situation to me? : Fallout: New Vegas

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:58 am

[...]

There should be no problem at all with that. As long as you don't get special East Asian keys to Valve's own games registered on your account, about which they are a little picks, you will be fine.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:44 am

thanks for the speedy response

And yeah play asia is good, the key will be a US one, so i guess it will work then

(scurries away to preorder new vegas)
thanks again
Diablo

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:46 am

I concur...But what am I going to do with all those 'extra' Microsoft points left over from the Fallout 3 DLCs? You need 800 points..but can only buy 1200 at a time...bahh..Can't get a refund huh?Good riddance to GFWL...!

I was thinking this same with MS points in past.
I chose to run it to a zero balance, meaning I never bought Mothership Zeta from GWFL, MEaning after purchasing 4 DLCs I had a balance of 0 MS points left.
I left it there as I never deal wiht them under normal conditions anyway.
I bought the GotY version of Fallout 3 instead.
The scam of MS points, or any other outfit using such, ends up with them growing fat off unspent points, which is cash spent on them.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:07 am

The scam of MS points, or any other outfit using such, ends up with them growing fat off unspent points, which is cash spent on them.

Points systems svck. Unless you can use Points and or some other payment method. Anyway, that issue is gone with Steam.

» Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:11 pm

Considering that it's happened before, I'd say that yes, it IS something we need to worry about.

Nonsense. Nonsense. If you lose your password and login, it's your own fault. And even if you do, Valve support is typically very helpful about getting it straightened out if you contact them. If you lose games you pay for because server hiccups, Valve is also typically very good about fixing the situation, and they'll often give you a bonus as a way of apologizing. If you're concerned about this, the simple answer is to write down your login and password, and print out the receipts that steam gives you when you buy games. Keep the receipts from retail steamworks games you buy too.

That's a good precaution to take in general, in fact.

I'd agree that it's a good thing too if it didn't come at the price of needing to use Steam instead. At least in Fallout 3, I could safely ignore Games For Windows Live and still play the game, sure, it's there, but as long as I don't have to use it, I don't care, on the other hand, Steam doesn't give me that option. So, to be perfectly honest, if I had to choose between a game which I must use Steam to play and a game which includes Games for Windows Live but uses it like Fallout 3, I'd choose the latter any day.

How about a game which uses GFWL as its DRM? Because it's pretty obvious that for whatever reason, the Fallout 3 "DRM" scheme isn't acceptable to the publisher any more, and for good reason considering how easy it was to circumvent.

I'm glad you like it, too bad I can't agree. So I can play without a disc? So what? I'd rather go through the simple step of inserting the DVD into the drive then need to have Steam running every time I play the game, and so what if I get all my updates in the same place? I can download patches myself, thank you, and when I do that, I can choose to download them when I want. So, if, for example, the latest patch for the game introduces some bugs (It's happened to Fallout 3 before.) I don't need to download it, I can wait until a new patch that fixes them is released, or if a mod I have doesn't work with the latest patch, I can wait until the mod is updated to function with the latest patch. I can't with Steam, with Steam, if I activate it in online mode, it downloads the patches automatically, whether I like it or not. And so what if I can redownload games when I need to? If I have the game disc, I can install them from it when I need to and I don't need to wait for my computer to download the game. And a large community? I don't care! I've never desired to be a part of the Steam community, so it doesn't make me want to use it any more. All I use Steam for is for playing games, and only because it's the only option I have for playing certain games, as far as I'm concerned, every feature of Steam that ISN'T directly connected to playing games is entirely pointless. And yet, even those who don't want it still need to use it if they want to play the game, and that's my problem, I don't mind it if a Steam version of the game exists, but it's ridiculous that I should still a seperate program to play the game once I've bought a retail copy of it, and if Steam was just there for the players' convenience, there WOULD be non-Steam versions, but the real reason it's being used is for DRM, obviously. In short, it's a program that causes invoncenience for players for the sake of making piracy slightly more difficult, EXACTLY like Securom, the method is somewhat different, but the purpose is the same.

Steam has an option to turn off automatic patching of games, you know. Also, Securom installs stuff into the root of your computer. Steam does not. The methods here are what matters more than some nebulous "steam is DRM, securom is DRM" false equivelency.

I really wish the people who rant about steam would actually take time to research their arguments.

By this reasoning I could also defend the developers if they decided to turn the game into a generic FPS with a completely linear path, no RPG elements, and make every single living thing in the game hostile towards you, after all, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play it, so it's fine, right?

That would be your cue to vote with your wallet.

Yes, no one is forcing anyone to buy the game even though it uses Steam, but when the developers are offering me a choice of "Use Steam." and "Don't play our game at all." it's really not much of a choice, and besides, maybe if enough players object to the decision to use Steam, they'll decide to stop using it, it's unlikely that it will happen with New Vegas at this point, but maybe with future Bethesda or Obsidian games, if we can convince them that using Steam is a bad idea, they'll stop using it. I'm not sure what the chances of that happening are, but I know it's definately not happening if all we do is praise them for choosing Steam.

The thing there is that steam isn't a bad idea. From a developer perspective, it's great. From the perspective of some of the playerbase, it's also great. It's only a bad idea from a subset of the player base. A subset who, if you're any indication, will be buying the game anyway.

» Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:46 pm

its called you get a steam account, then use a credit card, then you download the game, and their you have it.....

» Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:05 pm

Nonsense. Nonsense. If you lose your password and login, it's your own fault. And even if you do, Valve support is typically very helpful about getting it straightened out if you contact them. If you lose games you pay for because server hiccups, Valve is also typically very good about fixing the situation, and they'll often give you a bonus as a way of apologizing. If you're concerned about this, the simple answer is to write down your login and password, and print out the receipts that steam gives you when you buy games. Keep the receipts from retail steamworks games you buy too.

That's a good precaution to take in general, in fact.

It is a good precaution; but why should a game that I paid for demand a password and username, on the system that I bought and installed it to ~this is just trading the Disk for a login.

None of my other games have this problem. If Steam breaks (including password loss), every game I may have bought through Steam breaks.

***Question... Since Steam can be exited during play (Just read this a few minutes ago, but do not know if its accurate). Could Steam be set to Offline mode and a Batch script written load a game through Steam, then automatically kill the Steam process after a small delay? Make the whole thing automated.

**** Someone should do a parody of the Monty Python SPAM sketch, rewriting it about Steam. :lol:

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:03 am

I was thinking this same with MS points in past.
I chose to run it to a zero balance, meaning I never bought Mothership Zeta from GWFL, MEaning after purchasing 4 DLCs I had a balance of 0 MS points left.
I left it there as I never deal wiht them under normal conditions anyway.
I bought the GotY version of Fallout 3 instead.
The scam of MS points, or any other outfit using such, ends up with them growing fat off unspent points, which is cash spent on them.

Not that it matters now, but you could buy MS points in increments of 800. You just had to do it through the Zune store, not the GFWL store. It's the same account so wherever you buy your points, they show up. In the end I bought all five Fallout 3 DLCs and had no MS points left over.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:55 am

Points systems svck. Unless you can use Points and or some other payment method. Anyway, that issue is gone with Steam.

*Cough* http://store.steampowered.com/news/4406/ *Cough* Lets hope they don't make this the only way to buy things on Steam.

It is a good precaution; but why should a game that I paid for demand a password and username, on the system that I bought and installed it to ~this is just trading the Disk for a login.

None of my other games have this problem. If Steam breaks (including password loss), every game I may have bought through Steam breaks.

***Question... Since Steam can be exited during play (Just read this a few minutes ago, but do not know if its accurate). Could Steam be set to Offline mode and a Batch script written load a game through Steam, then automatically kill the Steam process after a small delay? Make the whole thing automated.

**** Someone should do a parody of the Monty Python SPAM sketch, rewriting it about Steam. :lol:

To the person you replied to suggesting writing down your password, that is the worst precaution to take with a password. As for why your game should require a password, you pretty much answered your own question. You're trading a disk for a password. A physical disk is proof of purchase and your way to access the game, and on Steam, your password is your access to your game(s) and proof of purchase(s). If someone steals your game disk, your game is gone, go buy a new one if you want to play it again. If somehow someone steals your Steam password, at least you have a way to recover it, and you lose nothing. There are advantages and disadvantages to each one.

I still prefer to buy new games in a box on a disk, unless there is an incentive to buy it from Steam (lower price, extra stuff). I've also bought lots of games during Steam's sales, more than I have time to play, and even some I already own on disk just to have a digital copy to play and be able to store the disk in a safe place. New Vegas is the first game I've bought on disk (CE) that requires Steam. I'm not happy about that because I feel it doesn't give me a choice.

I don't know if Steam can be closed after you launch a game from it, I've never tried it, but why would you want to do that? It doesn't take up a lot of resources, and you will just have to load it again if you exit the game or it crashes, before you can restart the game.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:48 am

*Cough* http://store.steampowered.com/news/4406/ *Cough* Lets hope they don't make this the only way to buy things on Steam.

To the person you replied to suggesting writing down your password, that is the worst precaution to take with a password. As for why your game should require a password, you pretty much answered your own question. You're trading a disk for a password. A physical disk is proof of purchase and your way to access the game, and on Steam, your password is your access to your game(s) and proof of purchase(s). If someone steals your game disk, your game is gone, go buy a new one if you want to play it again. If somehow someone steals your Steam password, at least you have a way to recover it, and you lose nothing. There are advantages and disadvantages to each one.

in that case I'd prefer the disc check, then again I'm the type that will gladly buy a game again if I think the game is worth it but invasive, viral DRM is a major gaming turn-off to me.

I still prefer to buy new games in a box on a disk, unless there is an incentive to buy it from Steam (lower price, extra stuff). I've also bought lots of games during Steam's sales, more than I have time to play, and even some I already own on disk just to have a digital copy to play and be able to store the disk in a safe place. New Vegas is the first game I've bought on disk (CE) that requires Steam. I'm not happy about that because I feel it doesn't give me a choice.

exactly there isn't one

I don't know if Steam can be closed after you launch a game from it, I've never tried it, but why would you want to do that? It doesn't take up a lot of resources, and you will just have to load it again if you exit the game or it crashes, before you can restart the game.

I never done that either but I can understand why some would do that. Some people want to streamline their computers operations as much as possible when playing like disabling the anti-virus while in game.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:06 am

Steam Wallet is nothing like the "Points" system on GFWL. For starters, it's real world equivilancy values, not some weird scrip system. Secondly, if you want to just make one purchase, you can buy the exact value of your purchase with the Steam Wallet, instead of forcing you to buy a 1000 "point" card for a 800 point purchase.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:17 am

I'll never understand why some people think the world of Steam. It's so overrated in my opinion. And I really hope this trend of games -needing- Steam ends soon.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:37 am

One of the main reason's for Steam with Fallout New Vegas =

Anti Piracy , you haft to go online one time through steam to play the game & the game get's registered through steam and it makes it that much trickier for pirates.

Among the other reasons, no reason for a disc, automatic game updates, can log on any computer connected to the internet & download the game basicly. Does not hinder modding the game at all ethier and there is no conspiracy with steam like some people think, it is simply the best way especially from a developers stand point.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:37 am

One of the main reason's for Steam with Fallout New Vegas =

Anti Piracy , you haft to go online one time through steam to play the game & the game get's registered through steam and it makes it that much trickier for pirates.

no, it doesn't/wont bother the pirates abit.

Among the other reasons, no reason for a disc, automatic game updates, can log on any computer connected to the internet & download the game basicly. Does not hinder modding the game at all ethier and there is no conspiracy with steam like some people think, it is simply the best way especially from a developers stand point.

unless the gamer has a slow connection.
Automatically updating IMO is a bad idea for a Single-player game.
why dl the game again if you already have it?
Sure there is a conspiracy from what I can tell Valve wants to control all pc/Mac game distribution that's why they're letting publishers use Steamworks for free source -> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:00 am

Steam Wallet is nothing like the "Points" system on GFWL. For starters, it's real world equivilancy values, not some weird scrip system. Secondly, if you want to just make one purchase, you can buy the exact value of your purchase with the Steam Wallet, instead of forcing you to buy a 1000 "point" card for a 800 point purchase.

Yes it works like that now, but the introduction of this Steam Wallet worries me that they're eventually going to switch a system where you have to load up your wallet before making a purchase rather than let you use a credit/debit card or PayPal.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:44 pm

unless the gamer has a slow connection.

The entire game will be on disc and the Steam Authentication will simply involve decrypting certain files. At worst, you'd be looking at a few minutes to half an hour on top of the disk install.

Patches would depend on their size.

Automatically updating IMO is a bad idea for a Single-player game.

Why? It's still helpful to explain an opinion. Why is auto updating a single player game a bad idea?

why dl the game again if you already have it?

If you lose the disc or it gets damaged. Or your disk drive explodes or simply stops working.

Sure there is a conspiracy from what I can tell Valve wants to control all pc/Mac game distribution that's why they're letting publishers use Steamworks for free source -> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making

The article loses a tremendous amount of credibility with the Direct-2-Drive quote.

"We don't believe games should force the user to install a Trojan Horse."

Any new Ubisoft or EA game bought from there (Command And Conquer 4, Splinter Cell: Conviction) all come with their respective 'Always Online' DRM. And those are worst and far more insidious.
Lose the connection mid way through a game and you can't even save.

Not to mention, D2D isn't going to want to help support a rival -and superior- digital distribution system. THATS why they wouldn't sell any game that used Steamworks.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:37 am

Why? It's still helpful to explain an opinion. Why is auto updating a single player game a bad idea?

broken patches, like the FO3 1.5 patch fiasco

If you lose the disc or it gets damaged. Or your disk drive explodes or simply stops working.

Buy, buy & buy a new drive (help support the industry)

The article loses a tremendous amount of credibility with the Direct-2-Drive quote.

"We don't believe games should force the user to install a Trojan Horse."

Any new Ubisoft or EA game bought from there (Command And Conquer 4, Splinter Cell: Conviction) all come with their respective 'Always Online' DRM. And those are worst and far more insidious.
Lose the connection mid way through a game and you can't even save.

Not to mention, D2D isn't going to want to help support a rival -and superior- digital distribution system. THATS why they wouldn't sell any game that used Steamworks.

Steam isn't above having games that use additional drm in their store either. So Ubi-DRM on Steam is possible. Maybe D2D gets the games already rigged.

At least D2D isn't essentially saying "All your games are belong to us!"

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:42 am

"Why? It's still helpful to explain an opinion. Why is auto updating a single player game a bad idea?"

i can vouch for this with Metro 2033 and the ranger dlc patch auto update on steam it totally broke the game for some people while it was fine for others i like many others couldn't even start the game because it would crash think it was broken for at lest 3 or 4 days before the community found out that the patch deleted 2gigs worth of files you needed to run the game

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:02 am

Yes it works like that now, but the introduction of this Steam Wallet worries me that they're eventually going to switch a system where you have to load up your wallet before making a purchase rather than let you use a credit/debit card or PayPal.

You did not read my post in its entirety, it seems. In it, I stated that you can put just as much into the Steam Wallet as you are needing for your immediate purchse.

Steam isn't above having games that use additional drm in their store either. So Ubi-DRM on Steam is possible. Maybe D2D gets the games already rigged.

At least D2D isn't essentially saying "All your games are belong to us!"

Any additional DRM is the client publisher's fault, not Steam. Blame Ubi for their absurd always-needs-connection DRM, not Steam. Steam people probably roll their eyes over that as much as we do.

And as for worrying about auto-updates borking things up... Turn it off! :banghead: The shoddy patch is, again, NOT Steam's fault!

As for D2D, they are doing exactly that. Did you know that the executable is encrypted? The FOSE/OBSE Team won't be making a compatibility update for D2D games because the file is encrypted and it's apparently illegal to tamper it. Steam, on the other hand, actually offered some technical assistance in adapting the FOSE/OBSE loaders to work with Steam versions.

Base your dislike of Steam on opinions or facts, but fer chrissakes, stop with the fallacious statements! :banghead: Jeepers H Christmas... :rolleyes:

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:04 am

Does anybody know when we europeans can activate our game on steam? According to their internetsite it will be at 7 PM CET, but wouldn't the logical time be at midnight?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:05 pm

Bethesda, we demand to choose the form of DRM used on the games we buy! Please release a version of your games with each form of DRM so that we may choose at the time of purchase. Thank you.

To the folks saying that Steam is the same type of DRM as SecuROM...really, it only takes a couple of minutes of research to find out that's not true. Anyway, some people aren't reading the thread anymore and are making statements that have already been refuted earlier in the thread. I also don't see how it makes a difference whether a game's DRM is embedded in the game or runs as a separate app. I care more about how the DRM works and what it does than whether or not it's embedded.

Steam isn't above having games that use additional drm in their store either. So Ubi-DRM on Steam is possible. Maybe D2D gets the games already rigged.

They're not "above" it? Well, first of all, Steam has nothing to do with the way the original publisher packages their game. If the original publisher packages their non-Steam DRM along with their Steam distribution that's their bonehead move, not Valve's. Funny thing is that original publisher's DRM is probably worse than Steam (especially if we're talking about contemporary Ubisoft). Second, you're making it sound like they're purposely trying to inconvenience people, which is a ridiculous notion. They're a business. They have no reason to inconvenience you beyond the basic functionality of their service. Do you really think they'd include several layers of DRM just because they're jerks?

At least D2D isn't essentially saying "All your games are belong to us!"

Maybe not, but D2D, in my experience, is also a lot more flakey than Steam. I've never had technical issues with Steam, while I've had a ton with D2D to the point that I won't use them anymore. Sure, that's just my own personal experience, but I found their delivery system to be less reliable than Steam. Anyway, the way D2D works is a lot like Steam. The main difference is that the certificate they issue you doesn't expire as often.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:11 pm

Sorry, but I when buying a game, all I want is a classic .exe file witch I execute and play the game - it's that simple.

As for the anti-piracy of Steam....don't make me laugh.....the pirates today already crack Steam games ( and even release the patched versions of the games ! ) easly...Steam already is ineffective in fighting off the piracy.

In the end pirates play afterall, and we - who buy the game - have to play with this damn thing ( Steam ) running in the background.
Steam has it's huge pro's, I don't neglect that, but Steam should be made optional - not an enforced thing.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:48 am

Sorry, but I when buying a game, all I want is a classic .exe file witch I execute and play the game - it's that simple.

As for the anti-piracy of Steam....don't make me laugh.....the pirates today already crack Steam games ( and even release the patched versions of the games ! ) easly...Steam already is ineffective in fighting off the piracy.

In the end pirates play afterall, and we - who buy the game - have to play with this damn thing ( Steam ) running in the background.
Steam has it's huge pro's, I don't neglect that, but Steam should be made optional - not an enforced thing.

:thumbsup:

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:19 pm

Sorry, but I when buying a game, all I want is a classic .exe file witch I execute and play the game - it's that simple.

As for the anti-piracy of Steam....don't make me laugh.....the pirates today already crack Steam games ( and even release the patched versions of the games ! ) easly...Steam already is ineffective in fighting off the piracy.

I agree 100% that it's not going to stop pirates and seems like a futile exercise, but that's a pointless argument. Publishers are going to use some form of DRM whether we believe it to be effective or not.

In the end pirates play afterall, and we - who buy the game - have to play with this damn thing ( Steam ) running in the background.
Steam has it's huge pro's, I don't neglect that, but Steam should be made optional - not an enforced thing.

Most forms of DRM keep something running on your machine while you're playing the game. :shrug:

Again, everybody would be happier of there was no DRM, but that's obviously not happening. Between Steam, SecuROM, always-connected models like Ubisoft's, and the list goes on, Steam seems like one of the least intrusive and problematic. Can anyone offer some viable alternatives, or does it really just come down to the fact that everybody won't be happy until DRM is a thing of the past?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:28 pm

Considering that it's happened before, I'd say that yes, it IS something we need to worry about.

I'd agree that it's a good thing too if it didn't come at the price of needing to use Steam instead. At least in Fallout 3, I could safely ignore Games For Windows Live and still play the game, sure, it's there, but as long as I don't have to use it, I don't care, on the other hand, Steam doesn't give me that option. So, to be perfectly honest, if I had to choose between a game which I must use Steam to play and a game which includes Games for Windows Live but uses it like Fallout 3, I'd choose the latter any day.

I'm glad you like it, too bad I can't agree. So I can play without a disc? So what? I'd rather go through the simple step of inserting the DVD into the drive then need to have Steam running every time I play the game, and so what if I get all my updates in the same place? I can download patches myself, thank you, and when I do that, I can choose to download them when I want. So, if, for example, the latest patch for the game introduces some bugs (It's happened to Fallout 3 before.) I don't need to download it, I can wait until a new patch that fixes them is released, or if a mod I have doesn't work with the latest patch, I can wait until the mod is updated to function with the latest patch. I can't with Steam, with Steam, if I activate it in online mode, it downloads the patches automatically, whether I like it or not. And so what if I can redownload games when I need to? If I have the game disc, I can install them from it when I need to and I don't need to wait for my computer to download the game. And a large community? I don't care! I've never desired to be a part of the Steam community, so it doesn't make me want to use it any more. All I use Steam for is for playing games, and only because it's the only option I have for playing certain games, as far as I'm concerned, every feature of Steam that ISN'T directly connected to playing games is entirely pointless. And yet, even those who don't want it still need to use it if they want to play the game, and that's my problem, I don't mind it if a Steam version of the game exists, but it's ridiculous that I should still a seperate program to play the game once I've bought a retail copy of it, and if Steam was just there for the players' convenience, there WOULD be non-Steam versions, but the real reason it's being used is for DRM, obviously. In short, it's a program that causes invoncenience for players for the sake of making piracy slightly more difficult, EXACTLY like Securom, the method is somewhat different, but the purpose is the same.

So yeah, I don't want to use Steam, yet the designers still insist on forcing me to use it, and as much as I'd like to refuse to buy the game because of Steam, I want this game too much to do that.

By this reasoning I could also defend the developers if they decided to turn the game into a generic FPS with a completely linear path, no RPG elements, and make every single living thing in the game hostile towards you, after all, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play it, so it's fine, right?

Yes, no one is forcing anyone to buy the game even though it uses Steam, but when the developers are offering me a choice of "Use Steam." and "Don't play our game at all." it's really not much of a choice, and besides, maybe if enough players object to the decision to use Steam, they'll decide to stop using it, it's unlikely that it will happen with New Vegas at this point, but maybe with future Bethesda or Obsidian games, if we can convince them that using Steam is a bad idea, they'll stop using it. I'm not sure what the chances of that happening are, but I know it's definately not happening if all we do is praise them for choosing Steam.

WOW this is a long post to complain about nothing..
Seriously nitpicking at being forced to breathe this air instead of that air over there.
I firmly believe Steam is the best thing to happen to PC gaming and your wall o text saying absolutely nothing doesn't change that.