Ok, i have to admit that i`m quite furios right now!! I just recieved my retail copy of New Vegas today and was excited to get it installed. Overjoyed by getting the chance to play a new chapter of my favorite game series Fallout i press install... only to find out that you HAVE to have an internet connection to even install the game, which you can`t even do until the official release date! Don`t get me wrong, it`s not that i can`t play the game until tomorrow that upsets me, it`s how you disrespect your paying customers by forcing us to have an open internet connection just to be able to install the game!! Shame on you! Here the pirates are already having fun playing the game without needing an internet connection after downloading the game, and you guys are punishing your PAYING customers like this. Seriously, if you find a foolproof way to protect the game from piracy go for it. But when you use outdated methods which gets cracked day one, or even prior to to release, you`re just making your own customers upset. Right now i`m actually considering downloading the crack just on spite.... Nah, i`ll be patient and fume off for another 2 hours instead. I only have one request, and this is crucial if you want to keep me and those like me as paying customers, respect us by not implementing stuff like this in the future. When everyone stops paying for their merchandise it will be too late, review your methods for piracy prevention now. Maybe it`s just me being weird, but i made a poll so we can find out if there`s more than me that feels that game developers should change their anti piracy strategies.

I actually feel better now for letting out some STEAM, get it??

*Edit: FNV CAN be played in offline mode, the reason for this discussion however is that for a physical PC DVD, you HAVE to have an open internet connection to be even able to INSTALL the game, so if you don`t have internet it won`t help that Steam has an offline mode if you can`t even install the game.

Its 2010, even the homeless have access to the internet. Any form of DRM always hurts legitimate customers the most, there is no denying that. There has to be at least some form of DRM though and we are well past the age where disc checks are enough.

Wait, how are you complaining on the internet if you can't access the internet?

Also, you only have to register it online, after that you don't need the internet.

hahahahaha. yeah. I do think it's kinda stupid to require internet connection. But that's steam for you. They tell companies that unless you let steam pollute your game you'll never sell a copy because everyone will pirate it, then they help put up marketing dollars which pc developers are hard up for right now since no suits want to invest in marketing for pc games which are so easy to pirate. So developers make a deal with the devil to get their game out.

But along the same lines as the quote above, if you don't have an internet connection in 2010 natural selection dictates that you should be extinct by now.

Acces to the internet is different from having an internet connection...

No, and that's why I game on consoles

I have a fast and stable internet connection so it doesn't affect me at all but as a matter of principle I think that an internet connection should not be required for a single player game.

I have read these forums for a long time, but this really made me want to create an account just to respond. You are complaining that the pirates don't need an internet connection after 'DOWNLOADING' the game. Which they needed an internet connection for....

Since when did online registering stop any kind of pirating ? Or when did anything stop pirating really ?
It's useless and just a pain in the ass for nothing. Oh and not evryone has internet....

What i`m complaining about is the lengths game developers go to just to create the illusion that their game will be safe from pirates. If they can make an uncrackable version i`m all for it, but as long as they use methods which gets cracked even before the game is released they are just making things much more difficult for us paying customers. If i had chosen to pirate this game, i would have been playing it since a few days ago. And that is the reason for me being upset, that i can`t even install the game without being connected to the internet. Why make the price higher just to implement a DRM that doesn`t work, it`s easier being a pirate if they continue on this path.

I bought the game from Walmart today. I couldn't even install it because our local internet provider is switching companies (transferring from Windjammer Cable to SuddenLink). Our internet connection has been down for two days at home so I had to go to my parents house to use their internet connection just to install the game. It kinda pisses me off that I had to leave my house and go to a place that had internet access just so I could INSTALL the software. Jeez, whatever happened to buying an offline game from the store, going home and installing it and playing it right then? I know, I know... software pirates. But, you know what? From where I'm standing, people downloading their cracked games from pirate sites don't get rootkits, resource-draining DRM, and gestapo-like tactics (having a 'net connection just to install?) when they play their game. Yeah, they might get a virus or two, but that isn't the point here. The point is, it is the honest paying customer being put through the ringer every time they want to purchase and play a game.

Just a bad way of saying it:P Pirates don`t need an internet connection at all with dvd`s or external hard drives, as long as they have it on disk. Now i sit here with a physical disk in front of me and if i don`t have an internet conection it`s useless!

Yet again, the pirates have to connect to the internet, so how is it easier? This is funny There will never be an uncrackable DRM, but they have chosen to make this a steamworks release, as most companies are going to do since it brings in a lot more customers

Since when did anything stop pirating? If someone really wants to pirate something they will do it regardless of whats put in place to stop it. My point was that disc checks are simply not enough to comfort the shareholders these days. No DRM isnt good enough for the publishers and any DRM is too much for the consumers. Disc check = no DRM basically.

No its not fair.

Neither is it fair that people play the game for free.

Please refrain from discussion of piracy. It happens, developers of games, movies, software, handbags, shoes...everything can be expected to fight it anyway they can.

And discussing it here only means someone will come along and post admission of piracy or encourage it and lose their accounts here. Best just to stop the discussion of it.

Or, I can just close the thread.

Lol, english is not my native language, so expressing myself correctly in english can be a challenge, especially when i`m upset;) Only one person needs to connect to the internet, and that`s the downloader, this person can make copies to other medias as cd`s dvd`s external hd`s etc etc, So if i had a pirated copy right here infront of me i could install and play with no problems, on the other hand with a retail copy i`m screwed without an internet connection, just read about TheOxMan`s experience.

This is in no way an attempt to justify piracy, that`s the reason i`ve spent good money on products from Bethesda and other companies who makes quality products. My point is only that the strategies used to fight piracy harms us legitmate consumers and that the game developers should instead focus on more consumer friendly aleternatives.

Another thing that I should point out, is that steamworks eliminates second hand sales of the games.
Buying the game second hand may be a little cheaper for you, but it is the cost of a whole game to the developer. Selling games through steams, means that to have the game you need to buy an original and register it to your account.

This money goes towards developing new games, new titles. I guess I can't complain about not buying second hand games if it leads to that, hence not complaining about having to register it online!

Definitively and categorically not OK. I will pay for the game and support its developers as I love their work and want to see more from them, however I will not bog down my system with useless bloatware and tie my own hands together at GFWL or Steam's behest. I say 'no' to an undesired "service" eating any resources I've painstakingly freed by closely monitoring my startup apps/services. I don't want to sign into anything to play any game. Why should the outside world be notified in any fashion that I've decided to fire up a video game? Ugh! Steam does nothing for me in-game, thus it's completely useless to me save the acquisition of new patches which could be even more easily obtained like FO3's, via direct download from this site. 'But Steam tracks my Achievements for me and has online this and that', some may say. Great, make Steam optional...? o_0

pV=nRT

*raises T and decreases p*

Steam evaporates... hopefully sooner than later.

Exactly it happens, means they still dont get it ! Hence why discussion this topic should be allowed.
Instead of wasting money in a attempt to 'protect' their products and failing in the process, they should reduce the price of the product instead. Cheaper product more people who buy it, where as more expensive product less people will buy it and get it elsewhere from a 'certain source'

Edit: and im not promoting piracy, infact im against it. If i wasnt i would already be playing so i wouldnt be posting on the forums...

A good product, people will buy it no matter the price.

No offence, but that sentence just make's me wonder in wich world u live in...

No, no they don't. They'd have to have a computer - and not everyone has one, you know! There are still people with anolog TV's - they had to delay the termination of anolog signals because people "weren't prepared."

As for killing the second-hand sales - yes, and that is bad for the consumer. Switchgames has the option where you can donate a percent (determined by you) of your profit to publishers. But, honestly, if I'm selling the game, it is because I don't like it, and I don't want to reward the publisher for making crap. One person bought one game. Now I sell it to someone else. One person still has one game. I'm just the middle-man, like a store. That's how I view it.

Hey, do you think Steam will refund me my all or part of my money when I don't want the game anymore? According to them, I'm just buying the right to use the game - so, what if I don't want that right anymore, can I get a refund, huh?

EDIT: do you see car companies getting in a snit about used car sales? Do you see clothing companies throwing a fit about consignment shops? What about furniture companies, do they spew righteous indignation at someone selling their unwanted dining room table and chairs? Do book publishers get outraged when people donate their books to a library?

EDIT2: and for people with ISPs that charge by bandwidth, or have caps - doesn't having to connect to play eat into that budget?

Well, the same can be said about the car manufacturers, they will loose the sale of a new and in most cases better car if someone buys a second hand car. Of course there`s a huge difference there, but i just had to say it;) Personally i never buy used games, only vintage hard to get games if i had to. And i have to agree that Steam can be a great way of distributing and letting people know of your games, i have bought my fair share of Steam games. But the point of this discussion was that we are forced to register online with physical retail copies, and again if you don`t have an internet connection, for what ever reason, you`re in trouble:( Luckily i have a great connection, i`m just worried that the game companies will go too far with this and i want to express my concerns before they do.