Curse you fuzz you are making me go fire up my pc as we speak. I lola alchemy too much and it's gives me an excuse to RP my assign sme more.... I shall try combining the trolls fat and river Betty and ecto with other damage health ingredients. I did just haves thought about what happens if you mix in lingering damage health aswell.

Ok fuzz well try nightshade and betty and see what that gets us.

Would recommend

Troll fat + Deathbell
Troll fat + Falmer Ear
Troll fat + Human Flesh
Troll fat + Imp Stool
Troll fat + Nightshade
Troll fat + Nirnroot
Troll fat + Red Mountain Flower
Troll fat + Skeever Tail
Troll fat + Thistle
Troll fat + Void Salts

This pretty much , would be interesting to see it dne with river Betty aswell instead of trolls fat, that way we would find out which of the ingredients is the stronger

Oh great, math related stuff in games.

SOMEONE SAVE ME

Although is it that surprising? cause i always thought that the effects of the potion just depended on the ingredient, with nothing to do with cost o.o was this the case in oblivion?

How strong are poisons in the game actually? So far my own does 20 damage, this however is with only one perk and pretty low skill. My restore health potions heal close to 40.
Now as my bow does 45 in damage and the arrow 10 this is not very impressive so I wonder how strong they are with high skill and the relevant perks?

In oblivion the ingredients controlled the effects, skill and equipment controlled magnitude. In skyrim it seems a combination of skill and ingredients on troll he magnitude.

I have only one question.

Who is Betty and which river can she be found in?

OMFG

I was just testing all the combinations of the Damage Health effects.


And wait for it....


Troll Fat + jarrin Root = 3577 damage!


Ok... This is just getting bizarre. That surely has to be a glitch in their alchemical system. :S

I'm around lvl35 with 100alc. My current poison does 79 dmg, 50% Slow for 79 seconds (or similar) and a 30% weakness to poison (which should up the dmg to 100 or so I think) - and each poison hits at least twice. The last heal pots I made were for 90-100.

I've not crafted any for a while though, and they were made without any enchants so they may be a little low.

Jarrin Root is a known super poison. I've not found any outside of a quest yet though. : (

Nope jarrin root is a unique ingridient fr a certain quest. It's the strongest poison as its a one time deal. It's used n the quest do do something.

Edit: the quest is the ly way to obtain the singe sample.

Here you go. All Damage Health varieties (using Troll Fat as controlled variable). The numerical value is damage (based on my current Alchemy skill, obviously).



Troll Fat + Crimson Nirnroot = 107

Troll Fat + Deathbell = 54

Troll Fat + Ectoplasm = 36

Troll Fat + Falmer Ear = 36

Troll Fat + Human Flesh = 36

Troll Fat + Human Heart = 36

Troll Fat + Imp Stool = 36

Troll Fat + Jarrin Root = 3577

Troll Fat + Nightshade = 36

Troll Fat + Nirnroot = 36

Troll Fat + Red Mountain Flower = 36

Troll Fat + River Betty = 89

Troll Fat + Skeever Tail = 36

Troll Fat + Small Antlers = 36

Troll Fat + Void Salts = 36


So there are several ingredients that have multipliers. They all seem to be rarer ingredients.,.... So we can probably confidently theorise that there is some other hidden variable involved with ingredients guys...... Or maybe not. I am confused. Bah. I need to sit down with a pen and paper and think about this.

Woah, that's nuts. I was not expecting that much variation.

The things is river Betty is not rare n the slightest. It's easily got from rivers and lakes. I'm curious though about river Betty and deathbell now. That could prove quite potent

Yeah Deathbell and River Betty are my usual dmg base as they give you a free Slow.

And that's just for Damage Health. ...

AND

Not only do similar varieties exist for other effects... its not only magnitude.... the price and duration is also variable depending on ingredients *chuckles*.

So there is a LOT to work out here. Goodness.... I dislike not understanding the maths behind a game... I need the Creation Kit already damn you Bethesda!

I've seen it reported that potions are stuck at the power of the first time that particular combination is crafted together. If it's true, that could easily explain what is happening here.

And what about its damage effect?

It appears you are being confused about a glitch in Oblivion with identically-named custom potions.

Because no, potions dramatically improve when using the same combination based on your skill/perks.

I'm 90% sure that this is not the case.

I believe that there is in fact a bug within alchemy whereby the strength of a potion is stuck at the value it was when that particular combination of ingredients was first combined to make that potion.


Example (sorry I can't actually remember what ingredients do what at this point):

Ingredient A and B both have Restore Health. Alchemy is at 40. Mixing them for the first time at that point result's in a potion that restores 22 health.

Once alchemy is at 70, mixing the same two ingredients will still only result in a potion that restores 22 health.

However if you then, Alchemy at 70 still, made a potion from ingredient A and C for the first time, still only for Restore Health, the strength of that particular potion mixture would then be capped at 73.

Note - Those figures are just arbitrary, I have no idea what the actual figures might be but the principle is the same.

Edit - Perk's will still change the strength of the potion retroactively but my point still stands and even with the perks the combination of A and C will still be far stronger than A and B simply because of the alchemy level at which they were first made.


My point is that potions don't scale, once you have mixed two, or more, ingredients together to get a particular effect the strength of that potion will then never change no matter how much higher your alchemy skill is. Which explains why people are getting potions with different strengths from different ingredients despite having the same potion effect and alchemy level.

Nope, sorry! I used the console to add every single Damage Health item and half of them I have never encountered or used but they still had the same magnitudes of ingredients I have used.

The majority of them follow a pattern, and this is independent of which items you have already used. There MIGHT be some form of glitch occuring, but it is definitely not the "stuck at same value" glitch from Oblivion. That is disproven by what I have done above.



*EDIT* ------

Oh and yeah, I am a huge Alchemy player and I have been monitoring my potions increasing in strength using the same ingredients. Just to doubly disprove your suggestion. *wink

To summarize: Alchemy is far and away the least friendly-user skill in the game, and you'd better have a wiki open if you're interested in (1) making the best stuff or (2) spending a lot of time, money and ingredients mixing every conceivable combination for whatever type of potion you want to make.

Color me unenthused at the prospect. The Creation Kit seriously needs to be released so that I can download some mod that normalizes these variables or explains them in-game in some fashion. Perhaps a book.

I don't remember off hand, but it's pretty decent I think.I saw the post that suggested that, but it's false. I've made health potions ranging from 20 pts to 100 pts, among others.

I'm not convinced, I have alchemy at 50, no perks as I'm a warrior, because I have no perks I'm not expecting my potions to be great but I haven't noticed any of my potions actually improving.

And more to the point given this topic, I have't seen any ingredient that actually creates a stronger potion than other ingredients with the same effect.

Perhaps both issues exist but just aren't consistent between different saves. Would explain why all my different characters have not seen the other issue because I created a manual save just before you chose your race and do all the body customisation, from which all of my characters have been created from.

Looking at these results there appears to be a simple multiplier effect from the second ingredient. The base damage of the poison is 36 when the multiplier is 1. Deathbell appears to have a multiplier of 1.5, river betty a multiplier of 2.5, and jarrin root a multiplier of 100 (the slight differences in the actual damage may come from a rounding effect). Perhaps certain ingriendient have a multiplier applied to one of their effects. When creating a potion using two ingredients that share an effect, the system will apply the highest multiplier found on one of the ingedients. I good test would be to combine river betty and jarrin root (multipliers of 2.5 and 100 respectively) - this should result in either a poison that is 100x stronger than standard (if only the highest multiplier is applied) or a poison that is 250x stronger (if both multipliers are used)