I could never for the life of me understand why armorless, weaponless citizens would rush up to a Dragon spewing fire everywhere and try to punch it to death, or why they would think bumrushing a Mage releasing giant exploding balls of electricity is a good idea. Hell, even the beggars get in on the action, with their cute little daggers and what not. NPCs should be flagged as Citizen or Soldier; NPCs flagged as Citizens would FLEE from a battle instead of rushing to it, while NPCs marked as Soliders (Guards, Followers, and characters flagged as essential who can't die anyways) would be the only ones dashing pell-mell into the fight with that Revered Dragon or random group of Vampires.


XD The scary thing is there are plenty of people in the world with Skyrim-AI-level intelligence who actually WOULD think that's a good idea.

My first Dawnguard experience was walking through Riften's North gate and hearing the sounds of battle. I rushed to the market area six NPCs were dead, four dead guards, and an assorted company of vamps, gargoyles, death dogs, and a thrall. Nothing I could do about it. However, the smithy was one of the people that died and his assistant took over his shop. Those non-essential npcs are fluff. They are added to the game for atmosphere, and yes they are supposed to be able to die. If it seems you have a bug, and every city is being destroyed just reload. It shouldn't happen after EVERY load. It is too bad this is happening to so many people. It does seem to be happening and it happened to me as I entered the cell with a level 80 character. So please don't be derisive to everyone's account. At the same time, to the folks that are having problems, do not exaggerate the problems. Beth monitors these forums and even though they may not write much here they do attempt to fix problems. I think uninstalling it is a last resort that may not be necessary.

I am so exited for dawnguard to come to PC... The first thing I'm going to do is create/upload a mod that give Guards cross bows... and silver weapons.

I am well aware of that seeing as I've also been in those very threads...

The people that complained about the world being static ARE NOT THE ONES COMPLAINING ABOUT THE VAMPIRE ATTACKS!!! This very "comparison" is a straw man fallacy.

You could NOT HAVE THE DRAGONS ATTACK IN THE FIRST PLACE if you did ignored the main quest...guess you forgot about that...

If you are in the same cell as Riverwood, Riverwood can still be attacked. This means you can NOT BE IN Riverwood, and it will still be attacked.

Do you know how tedious having to reload over one hundred times gets just to make sure the vampires don't attack?

Exactly. There's also another aspect that people forget: a good portion of TES core fanbase likes TES games because they can shape the in-game world and control it the way they like, be it filling a house floor with gems, or deciding which NPCs are to live and which not. Vampires storming the towns are bringing unwanted chaos and uncertainty removing the sense of complete control over the game world. That's the same reason why a lot of TES fans are against the very idea of a multiplayer TES game.

Well I personally can't wait for the chaos of vampire attacks when dawnguard releases on the PC I personally think that skyrim is too static this is just my opinion.

Skyrim is a Static world in the sense that no player accomplishment have a lasting effect on the NPCs. Also, unlike Oblivion, NPCs in Skyrim are a lot less engaged in activities that makes them more believable.

In Oblivion there were NPCs with weekly complex schedules such as travelling from one city to another and, above all, said NPCs could not be killed by wild fauna or daedra spawned by Oblivion gates. Why Bethesda didn't replicate this approach is beyond me.

Did they really though? I'm sure some people are of the COD mindset where if they're not killing something every ten seconds they get bored, but have there really been loads of threads complaining about towns not being war zones? I'm sure I've seen more people complaining about dragons killing NPCs and too many dragon attacks getting boring than complaining about the lack of carnage inside Whiterun.
IMO one thing Bethesda got right in Skyrim was not overloading the wilderness with an attack every five seconds and pacing the amount of spawns quite well so you have a chance to take in your surroundings. Maybe I missed it, but i just do not recall seeing legions of people moaning when you then walk into a town there aren't battles going on unless a dragon shows up.

This is Beth's revenge on fast-travellers and power levellers, "Hmmm...won't be fast-travelling from Whiterun to Riften to sell off all your junk now Whiterun's out of gold, will you?"

I second your opinion.
For me its always fun and realistic to have a real battle in a city, and then, mourn the poor dead people. But just happens.

Exploring is fun but after the 100th time you have to go back to the same town (TG quests!) you really want to thank Bethesda for having included the option (and I say... *option* ) to fast travel.

Not to mention that some people (usually those with a work and/or a family) cannot afford to waste 20 minutes of *real* time to go from Whiterun to Riften when they can play Skyrim only for 30 minutes a day or less...

I miss mark and recall, the interventions and the guild guide. I wuld change fast travel ( I never use it) for that.

I have no idea what Dawnguard is because i dont have Skyrim currently installed, but i just have to ask.


There is exactly the same problem with dragon attacks. With time, their random raids will kill everyone who is not essential. Why are you having problems with vampires but are fine with dragons?


Which is not that i dont agree, saving quest people from committing suicide was a biggest reason why i took a break from Sryrim, it just got too annoying. Dunno if they fixed the dragons yet.

"fast-travellers and power levellers" has nothing to do with it... "Hmmm" getting a juicyfruit4 vibe... silly

Actually my character has changed the face of Skyrim forever.

The milk drinking Imperials have been driven from Whiterun and Falkreath.

Jarls have been usurped by my own hand, fortunes reversed and the world forever changed.

Sorry to hear your character is a bit of an under-achiever.

Az

LOL!

Well, you should check the bards at the local inns... Some of them don't play a different tune when the hold switch side!

Okay - to answer http://www.gamesas.com/user/776001-ncknck/ and some other people about why dragon attacks in cities are not so much of a problem.......

In a nutshell - YOU HAVE A CHANCE AND A CHOICE!!!!!


1) You can delay the dragon attacks by simply not progressing too quickly with the main questline (do side quests etc) and this gives you time to prepare for the attacks by arming your character with a good enchanted bow or crossbow.

2) When they do attack (very infrequently by the way) you do at least have a chance to save your poor old citizens because usually you are fore warned with the sound of the dragon flying overhead and also his attack routines are sporadic and broken up with his repositioning on buildings etc.

3) Dragons are obviously easy to spot and target without accidentally attacking someone friendly and seting the town against you.


It can be a challenge and NPC's may die occasionally but often as not i have been able to save the town because of the above points. I just reload if i fail (which is not that often) and i have come to accept this game feature (even though i may not like it) because at least i feel i have a choice and a chance! In other words my RPG choice is still there!

The vamp attacks however are just completely unfair and many times it is impossible to save your good old NPC's from death. It happends far too often and as your character level goes up the vamp attacks become even harder not to mention the chaos of you and your followers trying to target vamps amongst all the friendlies getting stuck in to a big battle in town.

I trhink we have enough posts on the subject already (not to mention all the people that have the problem but are not posting) and i don't want to tread over old ground but i would like to briefly mention how random attacks have been done in an oldy but goody - MORROWIND.....



I started this thread very reluctantly as i do not like moaning and running people down etc and it is only because i have read so much rubbish from people underestimating and playing down the extent of the problems that i felt i had to do my best to get over the point that i really think these random vampire attacks in cities and smaller communities is a massive mistake on the part of Bethesda (and i'm sure they know it).

I love the idea myself of random and unpredictable enemy attacks (even in cities) but they have not implemented this properly or even play tested it much from the look of things?

I am an avid Bethesda supporter and Elder Scrolls follower and have loved all there games.

I still love and play the aging Morrowind on my PC (great to be able to fly everywhere) and i always used to use the excellent ' Giants ' mod which did introduce random vampire attacks in cities - it was a great feature but what made it work is the fact that the attacks ONLY ever happened strictly at night and 99% of NPC's were ALWAYS in there houses and stores etc so could not be killed. To those old codgers like me that remember Morrowind - only the guards were around patrolling at night in cities and these would respawn after a while if killed by vamp attacks.

It worked perfectly and really kept you on your toes and added an unpredictable edgy feeling when the sun went down.

So - i am all for these vamp attacks or any other threats that adds atmosphere etc and makes sense within the storyline and lore of the elder scrolls universe (random werewolf attacks as well would be okay) as long as it is implemented properly which it obviously hasn't been in Dawnguards case.

I just hope it is not too late for Bethesda to fix this in some way that will keep the majority of us happy as i have currently uninstalled the DLC and i am enjoying Skyrim much more without it!

After you finished the quest line, all attacks are gone... no need for uninstall.

Thanks for that info http://www.gamesas.com/user/681434-magyaronny/

There seems to be conflicting reports on this though?

Some say it depends on what side you choose and how you pick the 'ending' you want and some say there are greatly reduced attacks or none at all.

Regardless of all that though let's just say you are correct and assume that for finishing the DLC the vampire attacks stop completely.

I still have the problem that i would have to try and speed through the DLC at a very low character level in order to minimse any problems with dead NPC's.

Not many people's idea of enjoying the lovely new content and missions they have paid for.

I didn't pay for the DLC to make my game less enjoyable and more buggy and try and speed through it in the shortest possible time to avoid problems that shouldn't even arise in the first place.

YES - it is a very quick and nasty solution (if in fact you can stop the vamp attacks) and would then allow you to enjoy the extra content for the rest of your game.

My girlfriend has completed the DLC from the Dawnguard perspective a few days ago and what has happend so far in her game is that she still gets random vampire attacks in the wild but she has not had any in the last few days spawn in the 'walled' cities.

This is still not good though as all of us with this problem have always been saying that it is not just the 'walled' cities that are the problem but the spawning of vamp attacks all over the map leading to the smaller 'open' towns and communities being slaughtered.

LOOK - the occasional person comes on this forum and accuses us of exagerating the problem or over reacting etc - NOT TRUE.

i have had these vamp attacks kill my NPC's in two different attacks in a 4 to 5 hour play session. The longer you play the more risk and you shouldn't have to worry about every footstep you take.

By the way - i never fast travel but only use the inbuilt transportation network provided by Bethesda (coaches and now the odd boat trip introduced with the DLC - nice addition for the boat trips Bethesda - thanks)

Although i don't have the boat trips anymore as i have uninstalled the DLC now.

I did both sides, but i deleted my vl side and kept my dawnguard side which is fine thank god... i don't know what happen after vl side.

I can tell you this; i still have slowtime on my hotkey... yeah it messed me up pretty bad

That "occasional person" wants just to say that you've caused him a major headache with all your chatting

Try to be more concise and concrete if you want a chance that someone read what you've to say next time

Threads like this saved me 20 bucks. I go to cities to buy/sell stuff, get quests, talk to npcs. I don't need constant action inside cities from a poorly thought out feature made worse with suicidal weak merchants and quests givers offing themselves when dangerous creatures appear. Perhaps if beth had weak npcs react in a realistic way, had more npcs taking over shops moving in that town when npc dies, I would give this DLC a shot. Just a POOR thought out feature geared for people who require constant action inside cities. Inside cities, heh, now its a dungeon crawl to keep you on ur toes. Not for me. I have a vast wilderness for that.

I don't even think it's that bad. I mean I'd prefer it if they appeared later on and spiked after the Vale, only to reduce after the questline is done, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are saying. In my current play-through, which I've done maybe 15 hours since I got Dawnguard, I've seen one random vampire attack in I believe... uh, I think it was Dragon Bridge.

New to Skyrim, new to Dawnguard ... old hat to TES.

I am doing a master difficulty playthru (breton, 1H, shield, archery).

So last night, my toon hits level 10. I fast travel to Dragonreach, save and exit to eat dinner.

Come back later, load game, run to blacksmith and see two ash piles. Vampires got the blacksmith and the alchemist. Meh, fine ... I will see how this plays out. Fast travel to stables to get on my horse to ride off to a radiant ... two demon dogs chew up my horse and kill him before I can get them off/save him. Look over and see the stable master's ash pile.

If Bethesda is so hell-bent on leveling to my character level, why could they not tone the invasion level appropriately?

Due to the vampire encounters and the Breezehome alchemy lab bug, I have uninstalled Dawnguard until my character is of level to not be put-off by its "features".

Sincerely,

A Paying Customer

You could be level 1000000000000000000000000 and theyd still do all that before you got there.

Thats the problem.

Thats why theres so much complaining about Dawnguard.