You say the Blades are supposed to help the Dragonborn, yet you tell me where to go, what to do, and how you want it done. If you so choose to not kill Parthunax then they wont help you any more. Good riddance, Blades I say.

Please don't post spoilers on this board

Oi, we have a spoilers forum!

Moved

i agree, i could handle being told what to do if it were say phrased as "hey u know it might be good for you or such and such if u go and check out here or kill x". But ya the whole baldes setup ultimatium really killed the blades for me, felt like either the 2 peopel where blade pretenders or just forgot what thier order was about. It SHOULD have gona along the lines of getting the mission to kill Paar and either u did and u lose the Greybeards BUT get the perks from the Blades as well as a new spell/enchanted equipment/weapon/etc or u could just say no like ALL the other dragonborns the blades have served under with the regards of Paar and still been bale to keep them as a grp of followers that told u were dragons were, let u recruit followers in blades, and yes let u have a blades uniform BUT u wouldnt get the Perks and the what shoulda been added good misc treat.

because liek u said all in all the Blades are suppose to serve, protect, and advise the dragonborn and that waywe coulda keep the grp still going for years to come instead of the 2 people rotting up in that place waiting on u to come to ur "senses".

there are some other posts on a thread I started and one that was started almost as soon as people got to this part of the quest chain...

I figure I'm the Dragonborn and the Blades do as I say... sadly, Beth didn't feel that way and so I can kill Paarthurnax or I can go it alone. I chose to go it alone when I couldn't kill Esbern and Delphine for their inappropriate lack of respect for their leader's wishes. You can't even throw them off Sky Haven Temple, I tried.

well, all this new lore on the Blades doesn't fit very well with established lore anyway. leaves a lot of holes, so it is entirely possible that the Delphine and Esbern are just making [censored] up. Still, Skyrim is really confusing with all this 'new' lore.

agreed

I thought Alduin was an aspect, like Akatosh, and Auriel-Ei.

Well the books (which are notorious liars) say he's an aspect.

However, Alduin calls himself the SON of Akatosh.

Also, Big P calls himself Alduin's brother.

So that opens an interesting can of worms.

Agreed, I wish we could kill her.

The UESP wiki says this as well, that Alduin is the son of Akatosh and so is Parthurnaxx. The wiki does say, however, that this is often metaphorical and not literal - it might just be saying that Akatosh created Alduin and Parthurnaxx.

I have an image of Akatosh's wife plopping out eggs now for some reason.

I haven't dug into Blades lore, but what I've gathered makes a certain amount of sense and is kind of cool: The Blades were once an order of dragon-slaying warriors, traditionally led by the greatest dragon-slayers of all: the Dragonborn. Once the dragons were (apparently) extinct, the Blades continued to serve the Dragonborn Septim dynasty, evolving over time into an elite royal guard of sorts. I have no trouble accepting that historical sequence of events.

And since the the death of Martin -- and the end of the Septim bloodline -- the Blades have slipped into obscurity with a handful of individuals trying to preserve their traditions. Again, I have no trouble accepting this. Makes perfect sense.

So now there's a new dragon threat and a new Dragonborn. Suddenly Dephine's obscure order has a reason to exist again! She has something to rally behind! Of course she's going to be all over that. But while the Dragonborn has the natural talent she needs to accomplish her mission, she and Esbern -- not the Dragonborn -- have the knowledge required to make it work. So of course she's going to take a leadership role, directing the Dragonborn as needed to end the dragon threat as quickly and efficiently as possible. Once again, I have no trouble accepting this. Makes perfect sense.

If someone more well-versed in TES lore comes along and tells me why I'm wrong, I may concede. But as it stands, I have no problem with Blades lore or Delphine's actions.

I don't think that what you have said here is wrong. My problem is what happens when Delphine and Esbern make the ultimatum that they won't talk to or deal with me until I kill Parthurnaxx. That isn't exactly helping to end the dragon threat as quickly and efficiently as possible. They're effectively cutting off the only person in the world who can kill dragons permanently and not dealing with them. Why? It's one thing to tell me that Parthurnaxx should die. It's another to say, "If he doesn't die, then we are going to ignore you and not help you end the threat anymore." It doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you are truly looking to deal with the dragons. I should be able to say no, and we should be able to come to some sort of compromise. The way it is now, I refuse to kill Parthurnaxx, and she and Esbern sit on a mountain for the rest of their lives moping.

I see Delphine as a no-nonsense figure who's been around the block. I agree that's she's taken the leadership role because she's got experience on your character. Esbern is too much of a scholar type to take the role. The writing could have been better - for example, they could have explained why the desire to spare Paarthanaax was laughably naive.

If you kill P, does that stop the dragons from appearing? No? Well, perhaps not a good idea. Go back to sleep P.

That would require people to read which might cause injury for some.

I have dug deep into the Lore pages of UESP, and judging from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Blades http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragons http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alduin http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Akaviri the Blades were formed in the Second Era by Tiber Septim, based off of the Dragonguard of Reman in the FIRST Era

HOWEVER, the height of dragonic power in Tamriel was ended during the Merethic Era, during the Dragon War. By the time of the 1E, most Dragons had been wiped out, with only a small number living in isolation among mountains. It is true that the Akaviri, and later the Dragonguard slayed Dragons.

But by the time of Tiber Septim, 500 years later, Dragons had become so rare that they were already becoming the stuff of legends. Tiber Septim offered safety to the very few willing to swear fealty to him, but eventually they died off and truely did become legends, with the only people who claimed to know of existing Dragons being the Akatosh Chantry (I can not find any proof supporting thier claim of having 'tame' dragons).

There are rumors of dragons during Third Era, but no proof to support those claims. The Blades were never dragon slayers (because Tiber Septim, despite being a Dragonborn, was not a dragon slayer), although their predecessors (the Dragonguard) were. The Blades have nothing to do with Dragons, only with the Emperors (who happened to be Dragonborn).

Based on this information, it is my educated opinion that Delphine and Esbern are NOT trying to rebuild the Blades, but rather trying to rebuild the Dragonguard. In which case their desire to kill every single dragon in existance is completely understandable.

From this point foward, I will refer to the 'new' Blades as what they REALLY are, the Dragonguard.

From the Blades page: "The Akaviri Dragonguard and its successor, the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Blades, along with other heroes, hunted dragons and their followers throughout the eras until dragons were nearly extinct"

So Beth didn't really mess up the lore here. The Blades are essentially a government-sponsored continuation of the original Akiviri Dragonguard, who were the ones responsible for originally hunting down the dragons. At least, this is my understanding of it, but I think I may be missing something.

I concur. The Empire essentially threw the Blades to the wolves (the Thalmor). The Blades are simply returning to their roots.

okay i jumped the gun saying they NEVER hunted Dragons, but by the time of the Blades, Dragons were already nearly extinct, having been devastated during the Mythic Era and hunted throughout the First and Second Eras (Blades were formed at the end of the Second Era, so very few Dragons left, and the few known Dragons served Tiber Septim, so not very much dragon hunting going on)

I like how the most common complaint about the Blades is the ultimatum and mean attitude of Delphine.

"What? I'm not a living god that doesn't get fellated wherever I go? How dare you?!"

I blame most RPGs for instilling that mentality though. Where, in fact, we are living gods.

I think there's more depth between Paarth's story and the Blades, and one can choose either side intelligently.. But it seems like some reactions are mostly emotional to her type of delivery. Personally, I think she's relatively normal for someone in a militaristic position. They're all over the place. They all talk like she does. It can be grating, but it doesn't mean they're the scourge of the earth.

Yes. Maybe in the next game the REAL Blades will show up, what with the Emperor being killed by the Dark Brotherhood and all. It would be interesting to see how the Dragonguard and Blades interact. Both hate Thalmor, but both have their own set of goals and means of going about them.

Who says the Dark Brotherhood killed the Emperor?

You can kill Astrid and wipe out the DB, y'know. Since if there is an option there, I hope Bethesda has implemented a "flag" for those kind of choices (much like Bioware does). It'd be silly to include them, and then just revert to some default outcome no matter what. "Yeah, we coded hours of gameplay where you kill the DB, but... The DB is still alive and well and assassinated the Emperor anyways."

True. And the Skyrim chapter is supposedly the last, but it is possible there are others considering the amount of secrecy between their chapters. Maybe both will be canon, with the joinable chapter being wiped out, but the Emperor still being mysteriously assassinated...