Empire or no Empire? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:34 am

That statement is a lie.

Sorry.....I couldn't resist.

Ah Mr Original.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:35 pm

This is a lie.

Maybe I was joking, and made it look serious.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:15 pm

A large number of off-topic threads went away.

Those who want to discuss Star Wars should do it in Community Discussion.

If the extremely dead, pulverized far beyond the atomic level horse that is civil war/empire/stormcloak has to be beaten some more, at least stay on topic while you do it, please.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:21 am

No.

And I wouldn't support an Aldmeri one either. Well, maybe a little... Maybe... Or Ayleid revivalist conspiracies... Yeah, that.

Seriously, no. Tamriel is the Arena. Let all the provinces hate each other and kill each other. Empires just make it "sanctioned." Yet, even with the, oh so great Empire, wars and naughty stuff are done. Trying to unite everyone under one culture is messy. And boring.

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:38 am

No, I don't think the Empire is good (the current one at least. Back when it was tied with the mythic, it had some good points). I generally think this way of any Empire, and I could go on and on about why I don't like this one.

No, I don't like cake. I'm not gonna explain, because I'm just that much of a rebel.

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:33 am

Konahrik is planning to get the bros together to create a Dragon Empire last time I heard.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:02 pm

But of course, an Empire forged for the glory of Alduin's dark benevolence is an exception. Praise be. Is there any more just ruler than I, merciful Hevnoraak?

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:20 am

The only way the Empire can reconcile with Skyrim and Hammerfell is if they take the initiative and wage war on the Aldmeri Dominion.

I don't know what could be done about Morrowind, though.

In any case, it just seems easier to form an alliance with the many provinces that have left the Empire than hoping it's possible to unite everyone under their banner again.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:50 pm

Lies!

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:02 pm

The only way the Empire can reconcile with Skyrim and Hammerfell is if they take the initiative and wage war on the Aldmeri Dominion.

I don't know what could be done about Morrowind, though.

In any case, it just seems easier to form an alliance with the many provinces that have left the Empire than hoping it's possible to unite everyone under their banner again.

________________

Hevnoraak, have you ever...

...finished the MQ?

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:23 pm

Okay, just gotta say...

Neither the Empire or Stormcloaks are "evil" or "bad".. neither are they "good" or "righteous"..

they have both done things to help their people, as well as done some things that were not in their peoples best interest that have hurt their people..

Neither side is perfect...

the whole "evil/bad vs good" thing is a terrible argument.. it is to "black And white"..

in reality, there is no "black and white", only shades of Grey...

there I have said my peace...

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:37 pm

There's no point in conquering Morrowind anymore. Tiber Septim's rule was mythical. It represented more than Imperialism.. with the Septim Empire fulfilled in Martin there is no point in touching Morrowind anymore.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:20 am

By all accounts, it seemed that the Empire was preparing to wage war. Even Ondelemar seemed to agree. Sadly, it seems the Empire will be set back for a while.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:52 pm

Shadow is correct..

the only reason the Emperor signed the WGC is to give time to rebuild the Legions forces after the Battle of the red ring, he never intended it to be a permanent thing..

The Empire would likely have gone back to war the the Dominion after the Legion was reorganized, but then the CW broke out, thus the Empire is sending forces up there instead of preparing them for another great war...

this is why Ulfric starting the whole Rebellion was actually in the Dominions favor..

I am not saying that the Imperials are in the right, and I am not saying the SC means doom of Tamriel, I am just stating what info we have on the history and political climate of the whole thing..

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:01 am

I don't believe in the concept of "good" seeing as every single thing in someway has done something bad in Tamriel, even the divines have done not-so-good things. Now do I think the Empire is "good" for the humans nations of Tamriel? Currently yes because without a unified force there won't be a second war on the dominion until someone unifies the human nations again which knowing human history in Tamriel could take hundreds of years. Alone the human countries stand no chance against the Thalmor (yes that includes skyrim, Ulfric can't wage a war on the dominion on his own.) and I highly doubt there will be "a alliance of independent nations" crap that some idealists throw around. This is Tamriel, alliances don't really happen, yes I disregarding TES:O due to the fact that it makes no sense and the fact that these alliances don't last long further proves that even when attempting to build an alliance it will fail, also due to Tamriel being you know Tamriel I expect a lot of internal conflicts due to ancient enemies helping each other.

Especially an alliance among the human races, the human races being renowned as the most bloodthirsty and war-hungry race in Tamriel and this is proven by the fact that a lot of their history is plague with wars and conflicts.

Though once the Thalmor are dealt I could really careless what happens to the Empire, in fact having games portrayed during an Interregnum would be kinda cool.

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:12 am

I said Empires are inherently evil (this includes Tamriels) then supported this with the Empire from Star Wars as an example as I can't reference real world Empires or I'd be talking politics.

I was on topic discussing Empires so I call bad moderating on pulling my post...especially when you left in the silly cake ones that are neither on topic nor Skyrim related :thumbsdown:

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:07 pm

The empire is good

i. The Empire never invade Skyrim

ii. Skyrim was fine until Ulric rebel

iii. Ulfric rebel against his own people, killing his own king

iv. Empire trying to control the mess in Skyrim because the Nords kings can't do anything for themselves

v. The Empire help Skyrim clean up troublemakers that is Ulfric and his band

vi. The Imperial is not the enemy of the Nords

vii. The Nords themselves welcome the Imperial/Empire except Ulfric and his band

viii. Skyrim was ruled by the Nords, not Imperial

ix. General Tulius is there to help the Nord Jarls and peoples eliminating the troublemakers that is Ulfric and his band

x. Ulfric is the real traitor of Skyrim, killing his own king, peoples, creating a mess at his own place

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:29 pm

I try and remain impartial, though I lean slightly more towards the empire... but I see the good and bad in both factions

however, Qis, most of your points are ill-informed, I will name a few

2) No, Skyrim was not fine until Ulfric started the Rebellion, ever hear of the Markarth Incident?

4) hogwash, we see numerous Nord kings in various parts of the lore that show they are extremely capable individuals

5) "the empire cleans up troublemakers"? then why did they put Maven as a Jarl.. 40%-50% of Skyrim Support the SCs, to one they may appear to be Troublemakers, but to many they are heroes

7) No, Yes around the 50% mark of people welcome the Empire, nearly just as many support Ulfric and what he CLAIMS to stand for...

8) only in name really.. the High-King answered directly to the Empire and the Elder Council

10) well that depends, we have conflicting reports on the subject.. some Say Ulfric murdered the high-King, while others claim it was a traditional duel...

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:22 pm

i. There's a letter in Fort Neugrad after the Stormcloaks take it. It claims that the Imperials intended to move up through Pale Pass once the snow blockage is cleared.
ii. Really? ... You're kidding right? Thalmor freely taking Nords prisoner is fine? If everything was peachy there wouldn't have been a rebellion in the first place.
iii. As is his right. The King accepted his challenge after all.
iv. That's why Ulfric is giving them the boot.
v. Ulfric helps Skyrim deal with tyrants, that's the Empire.
vi. No, they just let the enemies torture them.
vii. Which consists of roughly hall the country
viii. Nord rulers who were ruled by Imperials
ix. Tullius is there to help the Imperial supporting Jarls by eliminating their opposition
x. It was already a mess. You can thank the Empire for that.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:04 pm

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:05 am

When two guys on opposite (sort of, since you're leaning but not full blown empire) ends of the cw discussion agree, you know something's up.

» Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:01 am

Tell that to Markarth and those not fine with religious intolerance (being "allowed" to worship in secret is NOT religious tolerance and is NOT ok.)

religion have nothing to do with anything, because there are many gods, Akatosh is worshipped by everyone, the Daedras also, Talos is just one of the gods, the Nords themselves worship many gods such as Kinareth, Dibella and so many others. Religion is always a good excuse to justify holy wars

He rebelled against Cyrodiil. And Torygg to him was unworthy, and to his supporters. He had a right as Jarl to do so in the duel.

Nope, he kill the High King, that is his own king and that started the so called rebellion against the Empire

Ulfric could apparently.

If not because of Alduin, he dead

Only half wants their "help"

If not because of Alduin, no more half

Half of Skyrim disagrees.

Half after Ulfric propaganda

Half of Skyrim

Half after Ulfric propaganda

The Empire demonstrated that their law supersedes local laws and tradition.

In which agreed upon by the High King and the peoples

Again, half of Skyrim doesn't even want their "help", and the Imps came on their own anyway.

Half is after Ulfric propaganda

Takes two to tango. It starts with the WGC. Ulfric was well in his right as Jarl to challenge him to a duel. He's no traitor to Skyrim. The Empire, but we obviously doesn't care what the Empire thinks.

It started because Ulfric can't control his anger, he claim it is a fair duel but he use shout, the thing that only few can do, he defile the sacred thing to kill his own king, then he pursue the throne by killing his own peoples, he manipulate religion to justify his cause, then he spread hatred toward races and blame the Empire for everything. He destroy Skyrim himself

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:40 pm

Too be fair we have no actual hard evidence that dueling a king in skyrim and winning means the challenger has the right to the throne is legal new or old tradition, all we have is mortals saying it was despite the only known dueling in nord society was between tongues in all accounts of lore and we have what Paarthunax said that thu'um battles were nothing but violent debates and the winner has the right due to their word being more powerful. So essentially it's possible that the concept of dueling is incredibly misunderstood due to nord tales being passed down throughout history through tongue and songs and many mortals have the complete wrong idea about said dueling.

Mortal opinion is not hard evidence, we can't use it to prove that something is true and can be shot down as misinterpretation or completely false. It's entirely possible that these "duels" were nothing but heavy debates which the common people misunderstood as dueling for power, we have enough evidence to suggest this. Of course it's hard to say if either is true but we can't say for certain that dueling between non-tongues is legal in both new and old skyrim.

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:20 pm

What Ulfric and Stormcloak supporters like to forget is if Alduin not show up, Ulfric is DEAD, the rebellion crushed. So Ulfric is just lucky at the time of his execution, a dragon trolling the Imperial.

If not because of Helgen event, no more Ulfric and no more Stormcloak

» Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:12 pm

No, we know it. It just has nothing to do with the cause.

What you like to forget is after Tullius got a lucky break, he was stuck in a stalemate without ambushes to rely on.