Endings are uneven.

Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:19 am

Warning: spoilers contained in the following post, if you wish to remain surprised about events in the fallout new Vegas exit this page now.
... you're still there aren't you?

In preparation for what decisions I should make in the game I looked up the endings and was very disappointed with what I found.
There are certain endings which I believe are morally right but all these you can only get with the NCR are ending.
The main philosophy of the game is that your choices aren't necessarily good or bad, to that end I think there should be good and bad to be had with all four endings but when looking at the endings you can't deny the most fair and humane ones are only available after taking Vegas for the NCR.
For example, the boomers are hyper violent isolationists and I would like to see them brought out of their shell but you can only do that with the NCR. Also the Great Khan's suffer and wither in all but one of their endings, again only with the NCR.
I think this is very unfair, I would love to take control of Vegas and found a new country but it means a lot of suffering for all the other parties.
On the other hand if you win victory for the NCR everything is rosy and fine, multiple comments were made of their lack of manpower and heavy taxes but low and behold once Vegas is theirs everything turns out great. Indeed it is only with the NCR that everything turns out great.
If any of the game creators are reading this you should know that the NCR ending is often referred to as the “good” ending because by far it has the most beneficial outcomes.
Personally I feel this betrays the intended ideal of the game.
What is needed in future expansion packs is more endings.
Why should the NCR be the only ones who help the boomers? I imagine an independent Vegas would be just as good for trading with them and if the NCR were driven out great car and could indeed carve out their great empire.
In the yes-man ending it says the followers were swamped because an independent Vegas was more violent than before, that doesn't make sense because independent Vegas has an army of robots to keep the peace.
I look forward to taking over the strip and I imagined since I had made friends with many of these factions I could establish democratic relations with them, but apparently it makes no difference.
What is needed is a wider spectrum of endings for the various factions. Incidentally I have composed my own epilogue of what I think an independent Vegas would be like.


And so The Courier who had cheated death in the cemetery outside Goodsprings cheated death once again, and the Mojave wasteland was forever changed.
The Courier, with the aid of Yes Man, drove both the Legion and the NCR from Hoover Dam, securing New Vegas' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. {Beat, slightly lower} Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. New Vegas assumed its position as an independent power in the Mojave.
Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man/woman responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He/she ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas.
Though the threat of invasion was lifted, the people of new Vegas were distrustful of their new leader. But the descent was relieved when the Courier vowed that all these people would share the wealth of new Vegas. As part of his first mandate, he sent workers to the wall around the strip, a mark of segregation and indifference, with orders that it should be torn down and the scrap metal used in Mr house's original refurbishment project, which the Courier directed on all of Vegas.
The followers pledged to help organise the citywide reconstruction project and in return received the full support of the new government in aiding the community.
The lucky 38 was converted into a government building to house the new regime. It's hotel suites used for visiting diplomats and it's bar for dignitary dinners, the White House of new Vegas.
Their leaders destroyed by the Courier, the Fiends scattered throughout the wasteland. Without the organization of Motor-Runner, Cook-Cook, Violet, and Driver Nephi, they were easy prey.
With the new nation next door and their trusted friend in charge, the boomers emerged from their shell and established a healthy trade route with new Vegas while fiercely maintaining their own independence. Eventually exploring the wastes and interacting with outsiders, but always considered Nellis home.
With New Vegas' independence formally declared, Goodsprings thrived. More travelers stopped by Goodsprings on their way to and from The Strip, and the locals grew prosperous from the traffic.
Thanks to The Courier and Lily, a cure for the Nightkin's schizophrenia was found shortly after Doctor Henry's experiment concluded. Nightkin and other Super Mutants in the wasteland flocked to Jacobstown, and the town became known as a haven where a mutant could find peace.
In agreement with the new government, the Kings maintained their freedom and independence, in return maintaining order and stability in freeside.
During the Battle of Hoover Dam, the Great Khans quickly evacuated Red Rock Canyon and headed north and east into the plains of Wyoming. There, they reconnected with the Followers of the Apocalypse and rebuilt their strength. Bolstered by ancient knowledge of governance, economics, and transportation, they carved a mighty empire out of the ruins of the Northwest.
As predicted, the brotherhood of steel did not accept Vega’s robot army but the debt they owe to the Courier was strong enough to bear a non-aggression pact between them.
With the transplant of Lupa's brain, Rex gained all of the donor's experiences traveling with the Legion. These melded well with his own memories of the Legion, and his new mind quickly adjusted to the myriad memories.
With their defeat at the dam the NCR shrank back from Mojave wastes. For a time it's people cried out for retaliation against new Vegas. But to their frustration had not the manpower to take on the upgraded Securitrons. Without the much needed resources of Vegas the Republic continued to shrink but came to a respectable size that could more easily sustain itself.
After new Vegas was truly established the Courier sent envoys to the towns of Goodsprings, prim, and Novac with the offer of joining the fledgeling nation. Though initially staunch in their independence, their friendship for the Courier made them willing to listen to his proposal. In time they accepted and were united under the banner of the new Vegas collective. With the money brought in from the capital, new buildings were constructed in each province and the new nation prospered and solidified its place in the Mojave.
Ranger Andy of novac was offered and accepted the position of General of the NVC’s robot army. With his military experience the Securitrons patrolled the highways ensuring law, order and safety.
Though proud of his works, the Courier felt guilty per knowing he had seized power. He feared that instead of dethroning the tyrant house, he would take his place. With Vegas stabilised he called for a fair and open election and considered removing himself from the race but due to overwhelming public demand he returned and won the election. After the instalment of the Vegas Senate a series of protocols, government and computer, were initiated to ensure no one man would control the nation's army of Securitrons.
And so the Courier's road came to an end... for now. In the new world of the Mojave Wasteland, fighting continued, blood was spilled, and many lived and died - just as they had in the Old World. Because war... war never changes.

Now why can't the yes-man ending have options like that? Why should only the NCR be the beneficial one? As I've said I imagine in independent figures could do a lot of good for a lot of people. For the next expansion pack I request more options for all endings. What do you think?
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M!KkI
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:11 am

the game is bias.
nuff said
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Jamie Moysey
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:13 am

Legion taking control of the Mojave is not a good thing for Caesar?

Mr.House gaing control of New Vegas is not a good thing for Mr.House?

Yes Man taking control on your behalf if not a good thing?
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SexyPimpAss
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:39 am

Look at the endings on youtube.
You can't deniy that NCR helps people far more than any other, why can't independant vagas help the followers, Khans, boomers and brotherhood?
The point of the game is to make for hard moral choices but when you look at the options it's clear NCR is the only way to go.
At least they cloud have the option for more combinations but as I said, the only way to make a good ending for the Khans and boomers is with the NCR.
And the NCR has almost no negative effect, despite being streached and mismanaged.
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Mark Churchman
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:02 pm

Look at the endings on youtube.
You can't deniy that NCR helps people far more than any other, why can't independant vagas help the followers, Khans, boomers and brotherhood?
The point of the game is to make for hard moral choices but when you look at the options it's clear NCR is the only way to go.


NCR helps the people of the Mojave because they are the only major action there that wants to help. So therefore they help the most in the end.

Independant Vegas is just that. All the factions stay independant. Even if they united they would not help the whole Mojave as much as NCR.
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Dean
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:16 am

I agree with the OP, if this is going to be it the ending should be a bit more profound and maybe be a bit more evened out. Not everybody working for the legion thinks that it's the wrong thing to do or that they're going to destroy the wasteland :cryvaultboy:
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Reven Lord
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:54 am

I'm just saying it'd be nice to have more flexabilaty for those who want it. As leader of New Vegas why shouldn't I want to help the people? The choice to take over is there for those who think the others are inadiquite.
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sally R
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:30 am

I agree with the OP, if this is going to be it the ending should be a bit more profound and maybe be a bit more evened out. Not everybody working for the legion thinks that it's the wrong thing to do or that they're going to destroy the wasteland :cryvaultboy:


New Vegas endings don't pass judgment on the player only FO3 does that. Its up to the player to decide if the Legion's actions are good or not.
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Heather beauchamp
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:59 am

I agree with the OP, if this is going to be it the ending should be a bit more profound and maybe be a bit more evened out. Not everybody working for the legion thinks that it's the wrong thing to do or that they're going to destroy the wasteland :cryvaultboy:


Exactly. All factions are supposted to have flaws, aside from taxes, the NCR makes everything hunky-dory.
Even in my own epiloge I diddn't make everything black and white, though I admit I could have done better in that respect.

There should be side missions for all the factions to make their endings better/worse.
And if players don't want that they don't have to get the expansion.
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Melanie Steinberg
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:14 am

Why would it have to be fair?

**And why would siding with slavers have to have a 'good' ending?

The original Fallout (that being the first one of course), had a town in it with a sheriff and a gangster. The player could side with either, but siding with the sheriff allowed him to craft a military state and govern like a tyrant over peasants; While siding with the gangster caused crime to go up, but also saw the town thrive and become wealthy.

*They were forced to change it :banghead: (presumably) so as not to confuse the players or advocate crime as a positive solution. (talk about unfair :()
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mishionary
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:08 am

The thing is, we get to choose who we like to help.

IN Fallout 3 if we wanted to help the Enclave, we'd have to blow up the citadel whilst killing the Enclave.
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Eliza Potter
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:16 am

**And why would siding with slavers have to have a 'good' ending?




Civilization comes with great prizes and consequences
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Scotties Hottie
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:50 am

I don't know, I found Mr. Houses endings more inspiring. The NCR ending made me feel like that whole 'wasteland' feel would keep on, and Im sick of generic sand and brown, we've seen it for 5-6 games. I really loved Jacobstown for changing it.
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Tom
 
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Post » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:26 pm

New Vegas endings don't pass judgment on the player only FO3 does that. Its up to the player to decide if the Legion's actions are good or not.

it actually does comment on your karma at the end though. When playing for the legion I got "The courier, though fair and even handed in her dealing in the waste land sided with caesar" and "Brutal and merciless as the rest of them...etc" So if you're good you shouldn't be helping a certain faction. Cool stuff :sadvaultboy:
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Carys
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:56 am

it actually does comment on your karma at the end though. When playing for the legion I got "The courier, though fair and even handed in her dealing in the waste land sided with caesar" and "Brutal and merciless as the rest of them...etc" So if you're good you shouldn't be helping a certain faction. Cool stuff :sadvaultboy:


So your saying if you were good yet helped the Legion the ending shoud reflect the Legion going around helping people? Legion are Brutal. They did have one act of kindness and that was let the Followers live other then that they are merciless. The game does not say that your actions were wrong only that they were not gentle because the Legion are not gentle.

NCR kicks the Followers out of the Mojave and hunt down the enclave remnants, taxes drive people out of the Mojave. So their ending is not shown as all good.

At least we get to see our actions and get to help three major factions. FO3 all we got was "(S)he was good/bad blah blah blah blah but in the end (s)he was bad/good blah blah blah.. Did not find out what happened to anyone or any place.
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Emily Jones
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:15 am

The best ending is if you contact Talon Company, they swoop in and boot CL and NCR out of the place, give the Dam to House for a million caps, then go back to DC.
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Pat RiMsey
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:15 am

OF course the NCR ending is the best, it's a democracy spreading across America, bringing with it trade and commerce. It's only logical that's the best ending.
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Sherry Speakman
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:32 am

OF course the NCR ending is the best, it's a democracy spreading across America, bringing with it trade and commerce. It's only logical that's the best ending.

As Mr. House says, "You want to see how democracy has ended? Look outside the window."
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:17 am

OF course the NCR ending is the best, it's a democracy spreading across America, bringing with it trade and commerce. It's only logical that's the best ending.



Yeah, so does the actual democracy :whistling:
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Pumpkin
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:08 am

As Mr. House says, "You want to see how democracy has ended? Look outside the window."

Yea because Communist China didn't have anything to do with it, and autocracies and dicatorships ALWAYS turn out great huh?
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Vickey Martinez
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:14 am

Yea because Communist China didn't have anything to do with it, and autocracies and dicatorships ALWAYS turn out great huh?

dont forget the New Plague that made everyone paranoid, especially the US, and then there was the FEV experiments becoming leaked to the media, making all nations think the US caused the New Plague...
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Crystal Clear
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:51 am

I have a feeling this is going to devoid into a House vs. NCR thread so let me say this now.
It all comes down to whether or not you believe that House is a perfect man, who is above the corrupting properties of power. I don't believe it myself so I support the democratic republic which supports the majority of people's interest under a frame work of Human Rights and Free Trade. At the end of the day if you're on House's nuts you're basically the same type of sheep who'd believe any other intelligent charismatic despot end of story.

Bob :dmc:
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Tanya Parra
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:13 pm

Could be a bug that prevents the Followers getting a happy ending, just like in the original.
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D IV
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:13 am

I both agree and disagree with the OP at the same time. On one hand, I did hoped that there can be more positive outcomes for the Mr. House and Independent endings. However, the NCR having most of the positive endings make sense. The NCR, at its core, is a democratic republic. You would see them trying to improve the standard of living of the people in the Mojave now that they are the republic's citizens. Unlike the Legion, they are not the type that will go around (openly) oppressing and enslaving their new citizens.

And the lack of good endings for the independent ending make sense as well. So you killed Mr. House and kicked both the Legion and the NCR out of the region. You are only one person, even if you have a powerful army of robots under your command, there is no way that you can effectively govern and rule over this land. Unlike the NCR, you don't have an established system of bureaucracy. And unlike the Legion, you don't nearly have enough soldiers to keep law and order in all the major locations. Not one has ever suggested that freedom will be cheap and easy.
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jessica breen
 
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Post » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:47 am

So your saying if you were good yet helped the Legion the ending shoud reflect the Legion going around helping people? Legion are Brutal. They did have one act of kindness and that was let the Followers live other then that they are merciless. The game does not say that your actions were wrong only that they were not gentle because the Legion are not gentle.

NCR kicks the Followers out of the Mojave and hunt down the enclave remnants, taxes drive people out of the Mojave. So their ending is not shown as all good.

At least we get to see our actions and get to help three major factions. FO3 all we got was "(S)he was good/bad blah blah blah blah but in the end (s)he was bad/good blah blah blah.. Did not find out what happened to anyone or any place.

Awesome, that's not what I was saying at all, but sure, the Legion should skip around and give flowers to all of the orphaned children and help the fiends to kick their habits and set up brahmin farms.

You lose karma for helping the legion, you gain it for helping the NCR, how much more black and white do you want? :facepalm:
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Siobhan Wallis-McRobert
 
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