Where did I try to excuse Bioware from anything? I just wondered how much of a part EA played in how things ultimately played out. Unless something verifiable leaks from within EA that takes that blame off Bioware, the TOR devs have no excuses--They messed up on so many levels, it was pathetic. I know a guy that played later in the TOR beta, and for a short time after release--he phrased his experience as Bioware going "we've got a story to tell, forget the gameplay". My snark about the cash shop stands--EA loves microtransactions, and I'd bet money that if TOR had 3 million subs nonstop from launch to today, there'd still a cash shop with exclusive (better than you can find in the game) stuff in it.

While yes, I agree that ports should be easier on the developers than previous console generations because of the closer resemblance that the next gen consoles have to PCs, it seems you're not taking into account the fact that the XB1 and PS4 will have operating software that won't be identical to the PC. The rulesets that the software uses will be closer to the PC "baseline", but there will probably be enough differences that the easier effort may still end up being cost-ineffective. This is before we take into account that the developers are still fairly inexperienced with the SDKs for the XB1 and PS4, so it will take them some time to learn how port the code efficiently.

All that's without getting into how they're handling the console versions internally--Did they hire more people to handle the ports, or pull people from the PC/Mac versions? We don't have that answer.

As a PC gamer you can anticipate the console companies trying to play hardball with the developer. Look at that crap we already had to put up with up from Bethesda having to . . blah I cant go there . . . Those Skyrim DLC's were delayed for PC because Microsoft Bought excusive timed rights to them. I have a lot of respect for Paul Sage and Mat Firor, but when it comes down to it, Neither can guarantee us expansion rights and content release for PC will not be interfered with to give exclusive rights to the other Platforms if they start throwing their weight around. You can bet these console guys will be jockeying for position to make their product more competitive and kicking the PC market down is the easiest way for them to do it. They have a record of doing just that with this very franchise.

Do people even know who the chairman of the board is for Zenimax Media? I'm just saying that is a serious money dude who plays for keeps. Will he come here and tell us he has the PC gamers interest at heart and wont sell rights for content to Sony this time instead of Microsoft?

I am not saying it Will Only Happen that way. But to ignore those simple facts is closing off your mind to reality.

I never got into the closed beta, but I did follow leaks quite closely so I do remember that debacle.

With teh change in architecture the biggest problems for porting are basically put aside. The OS's of the consoles are simple, light weight and no where near as complicated as the OS differences between Mac and Windows. It should take no more effort coding for those than it does coding for the Mac and the consoles have a much larger potential playerbase than Macs. If it is profitable to code for a mac, it is profitable to code for the consoles.

Mhoram, I 100 % agree with that statement, mainly because its has happened over and over in other cases in the past. Though I must say, after reading the recent posts, IF Mr. Sage sticks with his word and keeps the PC version a focus and treats it as a separate entity, I will be overjoyed! Who am I kidding anyway.... I am going to buy the damn thing no matter what, I always do. I just really hope we do not have another SKYRIM port to PC issue that was epic fail and, as stated above again, I hope the exclusivity issue does not happen. I also am very hopeful that there will be UI mods, I love creating my own UI for gameplay that fits me--------------- Glaring at YOU Curse ADDONS!

But the issue with Skyrim was that it was basically a console port over to PC. ESO has been developed as a PC game for over 5 years now. So it will be a PC port over for consoles. You don't have to worry like you did with Skyrim.

1. My first point is that the development of the two must be kept separate. The PC version must have nothing to do with how the console version is developed. The PC version must remain a PC only game, or it will degrade into a Skyrim.

2. Your second point simply denies what we have seen. Magically the game is pushed back six months at the same time that we are told of the port. This is not a coincidence.

Well it sounds like they are developing the game depending on what system you are playing.

It is still money and time they would otherwise not have to put into the ports. You're leaving a lot out because you're equating 'simpler than before' with easy and effectively free in terms of time, money and work, and it still isn't, even if your simpler argument is correct. 'Simpler' is just not a mathematical process where everything approaches zero, and your handwaving arguments illustrate this ('once UI and controls are in place,' 'almost identical'); you're simply glossing over too much as if it means nothing.

As for the last- the pc version getting content while waiting on console approval- history (with the same parent company and MS & Sony) tells us the exact opposite. PC content can and often is forced to wait until the console versions get theirs- and that is assuming the consoles don't get exclusivity first, and the PC gamers are forced to wait on the pleasure of Microsoft (or Sony).

IF developing it for the Mac, it will be just as profitable to develop for the consoles this generation. In fact probably more profitable as the console player base can dwarf the Mac playerbase.

Lets do some recent history. Defiance... not the greatest game but guess what, PC gets content and patches first when they have to wait for approval.

And that has nothing to do with it going to console. The investors will flip when it loses a mass player reguardless of it being on console or not.

I wish someone would sit down and tell the investors to chill the [censored] out. Nobody is going to hit those WoW numbers again, for a long time if ever. Not even WoW itself could sustain it.

Also, little late point, but the PC sales numbers for Skyrim are verrrrry skewed in favor of the consoles because of one thing: Piracy. I'm willing to bet the number of PC people playing Skyrim was equal or higher to the Xbox/PS, but the sales numbers weren't matching it for that reason alone.

The Mac is a false paralell--The needed code base for the Mac is as well-established as that for the PC. Developers have had access to the code base/SDK for the new consoles for perhaps a year at most (and ZOS likely for less than six months). There's still a learning curve while the developers figure out a new code base. The people working on the Mac portions of the program has years of experience (even if they didn't when they started). Nobody has years of experience with either new console, and by the time they do, the generation following the upcoming one will already be in development.

Defiance is also the intellectual property of a media giant (Defiance is owned by SyFy, which is the property of NBC Universal, which in turn is mostly owned by Comcast). That's not even getting into who owns Defiance's publisher, Trion Worlds. With enough clout, you can release to PCs on any schedule you want while the console manufacturers drag their feet. All it does is establish the PC version as the favored one in the minds of the players, and make Microsoft and Sony look bad for delaying updates to their customers.

I agree, the people with the illegal PC copies definitely caused a skew--I made a point to use the word "legitimate" in terms of getting it on PC in that regard. It also disregards "second hand" copies, which would skew the numbers across all three platforms.

ask funcom how that worked out.xbox aoc got the plug pulled before it even released.sold almost 1 million copies on PC release and xbox was pulled from release in 60 days

In every MMO I've played that had a console version the PC version always suffered from it one way or another.

Perhaps the console version suffered because of the PC version? It works both ways. In the early 2000's when MMOs really started to become popular, consoles could not support MMOs. Nowadays, especially this new generation, this is not the case.

There was never an xbox release of AoC. It was cancelled for similar reason that CO never went to Xbox. Microsoft on their 360 had some strict regulations. It had nothing to do with investors.

And what MMOs would those be? I haven't heard of an MMO on a console yet.

Come on dude. Just come on. We don't need to dance again about how the PC has absolutely none of the roadblocks a console does.

You misunderstood me . I never said it was released and according to Craig Morrison of Funcom the Xbox version of AOC missed its window of release and was pulled from production there was to many problems making it port to Vista, you remember vista don't you the platform that was gonna make Xbox players and PC players be able to play on games for windows live. it had nothing to do with Microsoft wielding some cudgel of regulations over them.

Final Fantasy 11, DCUO.

Both developed for the console first and took nearly no effort to make the pc better. Everything taht has been said so far is taht the pc version is being developed for the PC.

PC has suffered in the past though when there has been cross/multi platforming with the consoles. Ports are legendary for being really [censored]. But you're right, we don't really know how if at all ESO will be affected right now, mostly because this is a new generation of consoles, what we do know though is that Sony and MS are greedaloxes.