F2P in MMO'S turns always in P2W, i still think Eso will have a Sub, but i dont think it will be a pure P2P Game, more like a Freemium Model.

Im on the fence of P2P or B2P. I think that both would be fine for the company.

This is why we can't have nice things: because of people like you that think that's actually true.

You'd be surprised how much people spend on cosmetic items. The game will probably launch B2P, not P2P. And if you're fine with a cash shop that only sold cosmetic items, then why are you against F2P and B2P?

We cant have nice things, because there are players like you that want everything free and still think that developers dont need money.

MMO's that are F2P or B2P are bad games, there isent even one that is good right know. Look at Neverwinter, Dragon Phrophet or for B2P GW2, all of them are fun for 2 weeks after that drop it and never look back. F2P MMO's are just milking there customers and after some time the game dies in a corner.

In my experience b2p and f2p don't support the type of MMO I want. One that grows and improves during its life time which is long. Also I said I could live with a cash shop still hate them lol. As long as what they sell has no impact on char growth or game balance as isn't a flashing icon on the screen I can deal with them I guess.

If you look at one of the last 5 payment threads I guy breaks down roughly that ESO would have to sell 11 million copies to make back the 300+ million they put in it and got from investors. After the retailers took their cut.

i fail to see where you stand in this.

Okay, I'm not going to start an argument here. You have your opinion (which is based on false information) and I have mine.

11 million copies will be childs play with the fanbase they're selling the game to lol

Something to think about. Most if not all of the decent f2p MMOs ATM started off p2p and just were not good enough to hold that payment model for very long. Not saying anyone has said it yet but they will a $15 sub breaks down to .50 a day so it isn't expensive at all. Just putting that our there.

You also have to consider that this is an Elder Scrolls game with TES lore. If there is no cash coming it, it shuts down completely. That's a TES title completely lost and unplayable. So unless there is a monthly fee or cash shop, there is going to be a time when the copies sold doesn't cover the costs to keep the game running.

If the game is any good, I don't want to see that happen. I like to go back and play Morrowind sometimes, it would svck to lose that option for ESO in 5 years or less.

When B2P or F2P MMO's are able to keep a really large player base and push out as high quality content for years and years like WoW, I'll start playing them.

But so far no B2P or F2P MMO has been able to do that so I'll just stick to P2P where I know I'll get my moneys worth.

Thread has spiraled into a wave of misinformation. I feel like no matter what I say, no one will listen to me. I've tried on similar threads. People who support P2P for this game are blinded by a shroud of things that are not true.

its okay, welcome to the internet!

Such as?

Does it matter? You will refuse to believe anything I say against P2P.

I consider myself a very rational person and I'm more than willing to hear your view.

F2P always diminshes the quality of the game. Why?

Because the publisher/developer not only wants, but has to make money. They have to create incentive to make people buy the items and services from the store. This always leads to a shortage of features in the game itself - if it were available just as easily in game, nobody would bother paying for it. Specifically, this means the item or service is not obtainable without paying at all, alternatives to the purchasable item are very sparse (like most cosmetic items) or there is a time-wall that keeps you from your in-game earned goods - unless you buy it RIGHT NOW from the cash shop. The last one is a very powerful mechanism, because nobody likes to wait. It is a design that eventually permeates the whole game, by adding daily quests, a limited number of gatherable resources per day, insufficient inventory or character slots, and so on.

One particularly devilish variant are lockboxes, that can be easily found in game but require a "key" from the cash shop to be opened for a reward.

Eventually, the whole game design has to be built around these monetization mechanisms, and you end up with a game that plays you.

Yes. It is already confirmed you have to buy the game at least.
Beyond that we have no information, but this means it definitely wont be f2p (Hooray!).
(But: There will be cash shops. I am expecting cosmetics mainly. ZOS isn't stupid.)
Most logical seams b2p with addons to buy later.

This

That was beautiful

While I agree that there hasn't realy been a B2P or F2P MMO that has a really large player base and pushes out "high quality" content (I wouldn't consider WoW's new content as this) for years and years (and years, and years), list a P2P MMO that has, other than WoW. There really hasn't been very many MMOs that survived as long and successful as WoW, for whatever reason.

Wow. Way to turn a scratch into a decapitation. I completely disagree with you, and that is not at all what (good) F2P models are like. I suggest you actually play a non-P2W F2P MMO.

Actually it is. I've played all those good ftp games you mention. They pretty much all fall into what was described. Pace of microtransaction content out paces the pace of the actual content. Time to get items available immediately through microtransactions is usually so long it is simply not feasible to get them unless you are a hardcoe player

Okay, now you're flat-out lieing. Please don't. I also have played all the games I've mentioned (I really doubt you have, otherwise you wouldn't be posting such nonsense) and they don't at all fall into what was described.

+10% mount speed, do you really think that's content?

Rift is the only one from your list that is a bit better about these things but it was only turned into F2P very recently after being P2P for years.

But even Rift has lockboxes as world drops and keys in the store.

So it falls exactly to the category he described.

Keys occasionally drop randomly from everywhere, so it really doesn't. There really isn't anything good or anything you need in the lockboxes.