Bethesda is our friend right? sure they need to make money by adding micro-transactions and all, but i dont want the fans incuding my self to get milked out of our homes for half decent armor. Do YOU see pay to win in this game's future? or is it far too early to tell?

I believe it is going to be P2P. Which I hope eliminates micro-transactions.

Bethesda isn't making the game Zenimax Online Studios is and it will be P2P so no

Do we really need a thread like this? This only leads to arguments. Free-to-play does not mean Pay-to-win. No confirmation on payment module, it will most likely be B2P. /thread.

No confirmation on payment module? hmm, im i going too far to say lets pretend its free to play?

To the bunch of people who believe the stereotype that all F2P games are P2W, yes. They will take it out of hand.

Maybe in a year or maybe a year and a half after release (going by how other recent games have shifted in this timeframe to f2p or b2p with cash shops). Not at first though.

Is there supposed to be a monthly fee? If not, then I'm ok with P2W, and long as it's not required to keep up. The reason being that I understand that they have to keep the servers running, and I'm ok with buying XP boosts and cool items when I feel like it. But one thing I don't want to see is a painfully slow leveling speed that forces people to buy XP boosts in order to enjoy the game.

So what do you believe? Personally I dont believe the stereotype, but if the game switches to F2P after a certain amount of time as stated on this topic and elsewhere, will Zenimax start raking the players? or is it still too soon?

The game will have a cash shop regardless of payment module. It's very unlikely it's going to be P2W under any circumstance, and if it turns out to be, they will immediately change it. This is ZOS we're talking about, not some random developer.

Is this confirmed? I despise cash shops. If ESO has a cash shop that allows players to buy armor, materials for crafting, or pretty much anything other than non-combat pets/costumes/mounts, I will be extremely disappointed. Pay2win takes the point away from any progression in a game.

Never be okay with pay to win, thats like getting robbed and being okay with it. For most pay 2 win games You throw down over 100 bucks in the first month just to stay entertained and alive.

I believe it's confirmed, although I don't remember from where. And read the rest of my post, there is no way ZOS would have a P2W cash shop.

Like Nexon lol

I hope it is sub based. P2W games I always avoid.. I'd rather pay the $15 a month and get everything. Just my opinion

Read posts earlier in thread, please. You are misinformed.

I'd be more angry about the implied double dipping under such a model. If I pay a subscription I expect everything in the game to cheerfully drop into my bag, and for the game to basically not feel like such a grind that it leads me to a cash shop to supplement looted items from time spent naturally playing the game.

It's going to have to be either/or, and not both (both cash shop with crafting items or similar for sale AND subscription)...unless they give an option to play game for free or offer extras to subscribers (which is the classic f2p/b2p with cash shop model). Games that go f2p or b2p with a cash shop generally end up selling gear of some type in their shops, even in the Western model games.

I don't know about most games, but I play Defiance, which has a cash shop with XP boosts, and I've never once felt like I was getting cheated if I didn't spend money. I've only spent $5 in that game for extra inventory slots, everything else I got was earned in-game.

As far as getting robbed goes, if I'm playing a game that costs a lot to maintain, I'm not going to mind spending a little bit here and there. I understand that they have to pay to keep the game going, and if I'm playing it, then I deserve to pay something. And you can't forget that MMOs are typically much better supported than other games, which costs money.

The gear usually isn't that great though and is very easy to obtain. Rift, for example, you can buy some very low-tier armor that takes a 2-4 days to get at the most.

Actually, I don't mind them milking people for some cosmetic stuff, as well as getting that final +1 on the score tab for those who seek that kind of experience. Most of the time you can do well with gear approx. 80% of the highest tier available.

This leads back to the ancient question, why do we need the last tier of raid gear just after we have beaten the toughest content of the game? Bragging to newbies? Or beating the expansion content early so we can complain it was made way too easy?

See?

What I would not like is power ups and consumables like restoration potions. ...After making spellcasters totally OP ... running out of mana too soon? Drink up from the store ...

Ha, I was going to mention that game but I was too scared about the rules, Defiance is a great example of a cash shop that isn’t your life line. However, that game did require a initial purchase so it wouldnt fit the F2P category. A game that truly is borderline P2W is Warframe.

I'm not sure that Warframe is really P2W, however, I haven't played it since beta. The other warframes (as of beta) weren't very good and didn't really interest me.

Some good examples of F2P MMOs without P2W, just for reference (and the fact they actually exist): Aion, Rift, Tera, along with Team Fortress 2 (FPS), DotA (MOBA) and probably some more I can't think of the top of my head. And little known fact: Currently, the F2P MMO industry makes more money than P2P MMOs.

I guess we'll see what happens, since it's looking like Defiance might end up being F2P.

And will ESO be F2P? I thought it was also going to require an initial purchase?

Warframe was fine for quite sometime then all of a sudden they got real greedy real fast, maybe to speed completion? As for cosmetics in ESO, I dont want them to go overboard were they make any real changes barley noticeable till you cough up some obscene amount of money for change * cough * Dungeon Fighter *cough* Hmm, that was made by Nexon.

Sure at the end of the day not all F2P MMOs are p2w most are though. Another thing to consider is if the sole in flux of cash is from a cash shop then that is one of the main things the devs will focus on. That takes away from the rest of the game and for the most part f2p ends up costing more than a sub does.

This game won't launch b2p or f2p. It will launch with a sub and maybe a restricted freemium model as well. If its good enough it will carry the sub for a long time if it isn't it won't and it will go f2p at some point.

They did say something about a cash shop that sold pets and such. It was in a half joking way to me though so don't know for sure. While I hate cash shops I could live with one that only sold cosmetic stuff


Seems like all of this has been said before lol.