Here is a http://youtu.be/kZA9JCbVnzY?hd=1 showcasing a few more games made with the HeroEngine

Vanguard has it's own engine. A very desirable one if the speculation is true that SOE bought Vanguard just to get the engine for EQNext. Vanguard graphics are generally realistic without bright colors and extreme scale. Vanguard also has very detailed individual character appearance that the player creates. Remind you of anything?

Exactly, i would have been thrilled to hear TESO was being made with the same seamless world engine used to make Vanguard.

Name one game that had an issue with FPS for the Havok engine.

TOR peaked at 1.7 million and dropped to 1.3 since February. That's horrible.

You know what that proves? That TOR isn't a good game. Nothing more, nothing less.

I will crap on the hero engine all i want as long as i do it respectfully, this is all a matter of choice and I’m not here to change anybody's mind i just like to debate and share opinions, and this is one of the few civilized forums around. From 1.7 to 1.3 in a few months let’s wait a couple more and see where the stats stand. Again I’m not hater or want to make my point i just think there are too many perils building an MMO based in TES and with a crapy engine on top of it. Peace out thanks for ur comment btw.

Well like i have said from the start of this, im going to be optimistic about what TESO could be, not stew in disappointment for what it isn't. I guess i look at it different, i love TES world and im happy to be getting an online version rather than getting nothing at all.

The Vanguard engine was nothing special in 2007. It's 2012.

Name a better engine for making fully seamless open world mmorpg's.

The Hero engine.

You can not polish a turd.

The HeroEngine is probably the biggest turd to troll budding developers in a long, long time. It's a horrid engine that should have died a quick death to industry Darwinism. Blizzard currently has the best engine at the moment and it's a modified Warcraft 3 engine; a bloody third person isometric strategy game, for Christs sake. Developers need to step up and stop trying to take the easy route. It's all well and good buying a product out of the box which touts all these great features - too bad it's mutton dressed as lamb.

Have you worked with it? Cause the people at ZOS were by no means 'budding developers' when they leased this engine. They must have a reason. I'm very interested to see if it turns out as badly as it did for Bioware. I'm guessing it won't. They're already talking about hundreds of people in PVP, and there's no way that can happen without slideshow framerates in SWTOR.

Do you remember how Paul Barnett talked up RvR in Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning? Or how the developers at Bioware talked up Star Wars: The Old Republic prior to it launching? Pretty much every developer in the history of game development has talked up, sugar coated and bluffed their way through media interviews and press releases. I'll reserve judgement until I see footage of it running, but to say I'm skeptical is an understatement. This particular engines track record for turning good ideas in to multi-million dollar jokes is off to a spectacular start.

Hero engine gives me big fears, especially after the huge steaming pile of turd known as ToR.

But I eagerly await to see actual gameplay videos before I completely go ham on the game.

That's fair, and it's all I think you should do: wait and see with your own eyes.

On another note - Paul Barnett seemed like a used car salesman from day one. I never trusted him one bit. I thought the interview with Paul Sage was far more sincere and genuine sounding.

If DAoC was built on GameBryo, why didn't they just use that? Matt Firor was head of DAoC, he knows the engine can handle massive PvP. Also, imo, the engine would have looked darker and grittier than the Hero engine. These screens look goofy.

For the millionth time, the engine does not dictate the graphics, Artictic design choice does.

Hey now, Mythbusters proved that you CAN polish a turn into a treasure. =)

I realize you are a troll, but for anyone else who is interested, the one-off engine used for Vanguard was never an option. Even if someone at ZeniMax Online had wanted to use it back when they started development, they wouldn't have been able to.

I was under the impression that Vanguard was made using a heavily modified version of the Unreal Engine.

Sigil did a number on Unreal 2. If it's true that SOE bought Vanguard just to acquire the engine (and lock down a potential competitor to EQNext), then they paid millions for it.

Vanguard is known for its 'spaghetti code', and it has some awful bugs, but it does have a lot of TES type features. It's a moot point though, in regards to the engine.

TES-Style Features? So, lets think about this...

Character Development... NOT
Combat System... NOT
Diplomacy System... NOT
Crafting System... NOT
Housing... NOT
Ship Building... NOT
Map Size... Vanguard has about 412 Square Miles. Skyrim... 15?

Don't get me wrong... i think vanguard was one of the best MMOs ever made. So much things to do and so much diversion... Just too big to be ever completed for such a relativly small company.

Alone the fact that you were able to do something other in the game but fighting. Think about it. In WoW there is no real interesting content, but the fighting-stuff. The crafting is just click-and-go. The resource gathering is even more boring. And thats it.

In Vanguard you were able to spend weeks and month with crafting alone. The same goes for diplomacy(i loved it!). Or trying to get enough resources for your house or your ship together... Hard work, indeed. But at least they were able to bring some innovation and diversification that stands out from the mmo-mainstream.

Its a real pitty that such projects are most of the time a hard fail. They have no big publisher with enough money and therefore just not enough manpower to bring the game to completion. Big Publishers are cowards. They dont like experiments. They want money and force their developers to concentrate on this aspect alone. So they HAVE to copy what other studios did successfully.

Thats why this game will be just another wow clone. And while this game may be a financial success(like sw:tor seems like to be) it will be a hard fail in the eyes of their fans.

I don't understand your post - do you mean that TES doesn't have these Vanguard features?
When I compared Vanguard to the single player TES games we already have I was thinking about these points (which I have mentioned elsewhere):

* Customizable character appearance.
* Being able to run and cast at the same time (I am surprised by how many MMORPGs do not have this feature that's common in single player games).
* Open world where you are free to run anywhere - often into danger. And if you add up how large Tamriel is, it would be somewhat equal to the existing areas of Telon, I'd guess.
* Ability to play in either first or third person perspective, and the ability to switch views whenever you want.
* Graphics that are not cartoony, overly colorful, or with over-scaled items/character features.
* Housing (I was always comparing Vanguard to the games we already have, not TESO, which we know very little about).

If you meant that TES doesn't have some of the cooler features of Vanguard, I agree.
Vanguard's complex Crafting and Diplomacy spheres, and how they interact with Adventuring, are probably somewhat unique in MMORPGs.

Funny how this forum makes me want to play Vanguard or Morrowind, but not want to play anything built on the Hero engine...

The Hero Engine isn't the issue ladies and gentlemen. The problem with SWTOR is that it used an early stage of the Hero Engine that was incomplete, and BioWare decided it would try and finish the engine on its own, with the modifications it would make to the game anyways. SWTOR is having server issues because the engine itself was poorly optimized by BioWare, not because the engine itself is bad.

We will have to see how ZeniMax Online has approached the Hero Engine, but if it can support 100 vs 100 sieges as suggested, then I find the game will be vastly an improvement performance-wise over SWTOR.

well i wouldnt get to caught up on what type of engine it uses? why?

WAR:AoR uses gamebroyo engine and svcks, combatwise but also performancewise (or it did when i played)
Rift uses the same engine but dont sufffers from the same problems.

I think if TES:O svcks or not (performancewise) it wont because of the engine (or atleast not soly because of it)