It'd be interesting to see no doubt, MCA's take, but interesting narrative quirks, lore and motivations are in my view just half the package. I'd be more inclined for something like Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex or VtMB (or Kotor 2?) draqed in a Fallout gown in all the best ways it can than another sandbox FPS which has become the sort of concept that bores me to no end despite a possibly interesting narrative and quest designs.

And blue is actually yellow and the sky is the ocean and my bathroom is my bedroom! Saying things doesn't make things true, but if it's a song you're singin' keep on singin' it if it makes you happy.

whether anyone likes it or not bethesda has complete ownership fallout is whatever they say it is...I get alot of ppl liked new vegas better and that's totally cool, however this is a real fallout game because the owner says it is, it's their property. To say it's not a real fallout is just incorrect

that was my only gripe about new vegas the world was soooo empty

The reasons why I love new Vegas far more than fallout 3 is because of the deep RPG elements.

In new Vegas, every quest has at least 4 ways of completing it, some have way more. In fallout 3, every quest has maybe 2 ways of completing it, sometimes a few more, but quite rare.

Fallout 3 is designed to have every quest finished by one character in one play through.

New Vegas has tons of quests that require you kill or alienate other quest givers, thus locking you out of those quests in that play through. Bethesda would never dream of this kind of quest structure.

Fallout 3 has tons of essential characters, new Vegas has none. You can kill everybody, and still finish the main quest.

Fallout 3 main story is shoehorned into playing out the same every time. Every time you side with the brotherhood and fight the enclave.
The main story in new Vegas has 4 distinct factions to side with, with variations in each of those endings. You can join the legion, ncr, Mr house and yes man.

New Vegas has a bunch of factions, and each one has a reputation system depending on how you dealt with those factions. Regardless of whether you're a good guy or bad guy, a faction only cares about how you treated them.

Fallout 3 has no faction reputation system, or any sort of crime system. You steal from someone, they attack you until you leave and come back a few days later,then they don't care any more.
Also everyone knows if you have good or bad karma and judge you on that. "Oh this guy nuked a,settlement of innocent people, but Hey, he gave that homeless man 20 bottles of water, so he's a good guy".

New Vegas made an intricate crafting system that relies on the survival, science, repair and medicine skills, as well as perks for more recipes. Fallout 3 had a few weapon recipes that only relied on finding the recipe.

New Vegas added in new ammo types, and ways to craft and convert that ammo, fallout 3 had none of that.

New Vegas has about a 2.5 to 1 ratio of quests over fallout 3, as well as countless more weapons, unique weapons, weapon types, and npcs, and more perks.

New Vegas had companions that had their own stories, as well as unique companion quests, fallout 3 did not.

New Vegas brought back traits you pick at the start of the game that all give good bonuses, as well as penalties, for more character variation and roleplay.

New Vegas has countless more speech checks that require skills other than speech, like survival, intelligence, etc, as well as perk speech checks, for roleplay value, and more options to get through quests.

New Vegas added in a hardcoe mode that makes it so food and water has a purpose, you have a need to sleep, stimpacks heal slower and companions can die, as well as ammo having weight, bringing in more immersion and more difficulty options, rather than enemies simply having more health and doing more damage.


Fallout new Vegas was way more of an RPG and emphasis is around replay value and variations in characters and play throughs. New Vegas literally made every aspect of the game more complex, added in more layers of stats and RPG mechanics, hell even the special attributes had bigger effect on the game and character.

Fallout 4 simplified things rather than make them more complicated. The dialogue system is watered down, even worse than mass effect. Your character will have the same tone every play through, will have the same voice, and the same 4 options to choose from.
No more skill checks in dialogue (only charisma has an effect), hell, no more skills period.
The new perk system is about as complex as farcry 3 or bioshocks gene tonics (neither of those games are rpgs either), skills are rolled into perks to keep the dummies from being able to gimp their character, and not to overwhelm them and make them think too much.

No faction reputation system, no hardcoe mode, much less weapons by an order of magnitude, less choices in quests, brought back a plethora of essential characters, God forbid the player kill someone important! (Protecting them from themselves).
The dialogue system undermines choices, you can say a negative thing to a guy, he will hate you, but then you can go back and say the good thing cus you didn't like the results, and the npc forgets you were an [censored] to him beforehand, cus again, God forbid the player alienates a quest giver!

Removed traits, can't let the player give his character an optional Good and negative ability, don't want them to gimp their character and lose interest in playing, do we?

But don't worry, none of that matters when you can dress your character up in different clothing, and build a little town to play doll house in between your mindless exploring.
Besides, you got nicer graphics to cap people in the head with, and fight the occasional big daddy every other mission. Oops, I mean deathclaw.


In summary, as much as I'd love obsidian to make another fallout, I highly doubt they will get the opportunity, and even if they did, there's not much to work with in fallout 4s engine, they'd have to rework the RPG system from the ground up to have any sort of tangible RPG game.

Unless of course they were allowed to use their own assets and create mauve an isometric game.

I may sound a bit bitter, but I've been following Bethesda as a company since morrowind. They were my favourite developer for years. I never even heard of fallout til they made fallout 3 (and it was my first fallout before I went and played 1 and 2), but after skyrim, fallout became my favourite gaming franchise.

Fallout new Vegas is one of my favourite games ever, as well as fallout 2. So I'm very disappointed and saddened to see my favourite RPG franchise lose almost all of the Rpg mechanics that I've grown to love the series for. I loved fallout a lot, and Bethesda. But fallout 4 is the final nail in the coffin for me, I'm no longer interested in Bethesda games (coming from the guy who lost sleep and wanted to cryogenically freeze myself while waiting for oblivion to come out), and must find another outlet to get my RPG gaming in.

Bethesda still makes great games, but not the same great rpgs that I've grown to love them for.

This sentiment has been regurgitated millions of times since 2007 and it ALWAYS comes across as "My dad could beat up your dad!" on the scale of strawmen arguments. I could just as easily say "Nothing has been Fallout since Black Isle since nobody else is truly equipped to interpret and showcase the tone, setting and universe." I mean...who cares?

Obsician appeal to people who grew up with RPGs and expect higher quality of quests, story and dialog and Bethesda appeal to people who like to digitally LARP, play pretend/dress-up/house and walk around in a hiking simulator. ˉ\_(ツ)_/ˉ

I didn't mind it all that much, but I think the "one-sandbox" design somewhat betrayed NV's intent of presenting a more wastelandy wasteland where there are actually large patches of land with nothing of interest in them (as in the originals). It would've been better through other means.

It might've provided interesting gameplay opportunities, though, if those large empty patches were actually so large that they would've given chances of utilizing them to provide alternative gameplay elements to a couple of minutes of empty hoofing around. Mirages, map travel opportunities, higher impact from the implemented survival elements, etc.

Lol it's not a straw man argument it's just the truth, no you coudnt say what your saying because they no longer have anything to do with the IP. If you made a game then made another one and changed/removed aspect and I said it's not a real "random game name" because it dosnt have such and such I would be totally incorrect

No, you'd be incorrect on a technicality. Philosophically, Fallout died with Black Isle studios.

ok bro watever you say lol we will agree to disagree

lol ok

the NV map was empty, the locations svcked and left you with no tactical options, you were out in the open wherever you were and enemy spawns were static and extremely predictable, so it was a boring game to me.

Hmm. I could always out run them in FO3. Sometimes I had to jump off a cliff to exploit weaknesses in the pathing system, but I it was doable. I never managed to out run one in NV though. I did once manage to sneak past one at relatively low level, but that was the old blind one you find in a gulley somewhere. Other than that, I've always found them super alert.

It's funny. Most of the people who praise Obsidian's treatment of the franchise laud them for making deathclaws and giant radscorpions deadly once again, as well as for not scaling everything to the player and having areas that are just too dangerous for starting characters because that's what FO1 & 2 were like. I must admit, I have a certain sympathy for that position.

So tell me: are you saying the Obsidian messed it up and that the 'claws and 'scorps are in fact easy? Or are you saying that they were wrong when they said that some areas were too hard for starting characters?

Or is it just the deathclaws are easier to kill on the "very difficult" settings you find so easy to handle? I'm really curious where you're going with this.


Sure. Start a new game, follow the road north out of Goodsprings, you ought to be able to visit the tribal encampment (Khans is it? I forget) and then cut eastward from there to NV and cut out all that tedious business with Nipton.

Let us know how you get on. Don't worry about all those "danger, deathclaw" signs. I expect they're just there for a spot of local colour.

can belive I gonna do this, but maybe the conversation gets interesting (I doubt it)

No, its not. We play the same game?

http://www.supercheats.com/guides/files/guid/fallout-new-vegas/mojave-wasteland-map.gif

I guess the """"""""""""""""""tactical options"""""""""""""""""" is hiding in corners and walls waiting for Vats load. Because I do not remember any other combat option for F3 beyond that.

It's not like F3 had different types of ammunition, DT / DR, one Vats that does not make you invincible (seriously? How do you guys like this CRAP?), Heal over time, perks that really change the combat (And Stay Back! and Meltdwon is a example) and iron sights.

Like.....all Fallouts?

Of course they are "predictable". You dont build a world puting pieces in a random way because its COOL DUDE!!!!!!

You can only find Powder Ganger around NCRF and Vault 19. Because thats a reason to that.

You can only find centaurs and Ghouls in radiations areas. Because thats a reason to that.

You DONT find a Viper in Great Khan territory, because dont make sense.

You DONT find a Supermutant around Camp MacCarran because dont make sense.

There is a lot of empty space in the Mojave Wasteland. That's not to say there aren't a lot of places there, just there's generally a good distance separating them.

Actually, I think that's one of FNV's strengths. The wasteland actually looks like a wilderness and not some post apocalyptic theme park. Also. there's room for modders to add things without putting them on someone else's front yard.