No. Skyrim was all about the storyline. WoW is all about numbers.

...Duh?

Skyrim's guilds are about numbers too. They are just veiled behind weak story. In order to go for say... my first "story" quest in the Thieves' Guild... I have to steal a ring, plant it on someone, and then shake people down for money. Not very "story" driven there. It's simply numbers. You have to do quest 1. Then 2. Then 3. Etc, etc.

Just like WoW. Or any other MMORPG. I can't do quest 2 until I've met the requirements of it, which is usually "finish quest 1" or "be level 5."

Skyrim's guilds are about numbers too. They are just veiled behind weak story. In order to go for say... my first "story" quest in the Thieves' Guild... I have to steal a ring, plant it on someone, and then shake people down for money. Not very "story" driven there. It's simply numbers. You have to do quest 1. Then 2. Then 3. Etc, etc.

Just like WoW. Or any other MMORPG. I can't do quest 2 until I've met the requirements of it, which is usually "finish quest 1" or "be level 5."

You don't seem to grasp the meaning behind my use of the word 'numbers.'

In WoW, factions are joined by repeatedly doing simple chores and turning in identical items to NPCs. This repetitive grind makes your 'reputation' meter increase. Eventually it stops increasing and you get a reward.

In Skyrim, you are asked to perform quests that have both depth and reference to the Guild's story. There is a semi-linear sequence of quests that you complete in order to get to the highest position available in the guild. This differs from the WoW model because instead of turning in five hundred randomly dropped Macguffin fragments, you are given a dozen different quests. Some of Skyrim's Guilds were significantly better than others, this is true. None was as bad as any of the factions in WoW.

Do you still not see the difference?

Why, by this logic, you can call almost every RPG in existance a grind-fest.

Yeah, because a rumour of a hint of a leak about a game that we know literally nothing about other than the broad main plot and setting is enough to point fingers at a respectable company.

The difference being you're putting a candy-coated shell onto Skyrim?

I finished both the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves' Guild. I am quite well reminded of doing a large number of repetitive side quests to open up being able to get to the new "story" quest. I am also very well reminded of earning my "final reward" and then getting nothing but more repetitive side quests.

Skyrim and WoW quests are fundamentally the same. You are candy-coating it because Skyrim is given a snippet of story when you're asked to go plunder 500 gold worth of loot from one person's house.

I don't know how to put this any more simply. In WoW, factions do not give you quests. You are simply told to bring back any scraps of red cloth that drop from the bandits in the area. It is a metric system of progression. In Skyrim, you are given a string of individually written quests wherein you might perform similar actions but always in new places to different people. The Thieves Guild doesn't even have you performing the same action. Each of the Thieves Guild story quests is distinct, and you don't need to perform any of the side quests to receive the main set.

I mean, this is all very straightforward. Can you really not see the difference, or are you just trolling me?

In both circumstances you have to do something to achieve something else.

In WoW you have to do A+A+A+A+A+A....

In Skyrim you have to do A+B+C+D+E then stop. And then you get to do F repeatedly until you get bored.

How? I can think of some concerns about the MMO in general, but I can't really see any very valid reason as to how an MMO will ruin the Elder Scrolls series, especially given the limited amount of information we have. I can think of plenty reasons why it won't, including:

- it will, more likely than not, respect canon. Meaning that Molag Bal isn't going to be destroyed, there's not going to be some sort of world-breaking cataclysm, we aren't going to introduce any new permanent races or gods

- it will, almost definitely, not stop the development of single player Elder Scrolls games. It is set far before even Morrowind. Not to mention, TES is primarily marketed towards consoles (especially with Skyrim), and TES:O will obviously not be a console game

- it will not pull a World of Warcraft, picking up where Skyrim left off. Meaning that it won't create any new, garbage canon. They aren't going to pull an Arthas, destroying great lore for the purpose of a generic "we won" ending to an expansion. The future of the Elder Scrolls is and will remain entirely untouched by this new addition

- effort on the project will not reduce the quality of single player games substantially, if even at all, for two reasons. First, I think it is reasonable to assume that the team that did Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim will not be leading off this game. They may have a minor role, but I imagine they will stick to what they do best - single-player. For evidence, look at how good Skyrim is. Now consider the fact that TES:O has been in existence for 1-2 years. (At this point, ardent Morrowind/DnD style stats fans will rush to comment)

- it isn't being taken part in by EA or Activision. 'nuff said

I'm a little concerned about it, I won't lie. I'm afraid it'll fail. But given Skyrim's popularity, it could do a number to (though certainly not surpass) WoW. TES:O is unique in that it doesn't just take the easy way out, continuing on (and ruining) pre-established story evidence. It has to work within the limits of TES lore and history.

So stop worrying so much. For now.

I think it has more to do with the message behind the MMO, which is "we're selling out," rather than immediate, practical hindrances, although I'm sure it'll hurt future titles if the MMO is a flop.

I think it has more to do with the message behind the MMO, which is "we're selling out," rather than immediate, practical hindrances, although I'm sure it'll hurt future titles if the MMO is a flop.

Producing more games of a beloved franchise is selling out?

I think it has more to do with the message behind the MMO, which is "we're selling out," rather than immediate, practical hindrances, although I'm sure it'll hurt future titles if the MMO is a flop.

This is not selling out in the least bit.

You =

Back in my day, TES Lore was fairly consistent. Still hat retcons, but was fairly consistent. Todd gave speeches about Video games being art.
The speeches are still there, but now the lore is all the crap over the place, with this MMO stuffing the Dunmer, the Nords and the Argonians in an alliance.

That, to me, is selling out. They've stopped even trying to PRETEND they take their lore seriously. The lore is basically dead at this point. It got sold out for profits.

Like it or not, Skyrim is still an Elder Scrolls game. This? This is World of Warcraft with an Elder Scrolls skin on the top.

Back in my day, TES Lore was fairly consistent. Still hat retcons, but was fairly consistent. Todd gave speeches about Video games being art.
The speeches are still there, but now the lore is all the crap over the place, with this MMO stuffing the Dunmer, the Nords and the Argonians in an alliance.

That, to me, is selling out. They've stopped even trying to PRETEND they take their lore seriously. The lore is basically dead at this point. It got sold out for profits.

Except, you've never played it, and there are no details released, it may be nothing like World of WarCraft.

I fear that Elder Scrolls Online could take that same route, and am totally prepared for that possibility, but without so much as even a detail about the game you cannot make that claim.

We don't even know the lore of the game, how can you say they threw out their lore?

It's THEIR lore, they can do what they want with it.

This isn't selling out. The final product may not be good, but it's not selling out.

The Nords and the Dunmer and the Argonians have an alliance in this game.

I think it's pretty safe to say they threw out the lore.