That's why I don't like some random marketing noobs running the company making decisions up front how developers and company are going to interact with the customers.

Many publishers have multiple terms on "customer interaction" and a set of rules and restrictions. They want their marketing team to have an edge so the game has "more" chance of selling more sales, even if it makes the game look bad and crappy, even if the game is targeted at a stupid demographic.

I hope somebody leaks that piece of paper so we can see what's going on - something from EA for example. Best yet - why didn't the Prey 2 source leak the contract terms - that would be awesome. It's pretty clear that the prepared statement bethesda put out has no merit and truth in it, other than the game has not been cancelled, whoever is developing it.

The terms can state anything they want aslong as both parties agree.

If the publisher offer contract wants you to:

• work 16 hours per day
  
• any game element can be modified/replaced by publisher
  
• stay silent - no peep
  
• only publisher can make news and report game status
  
• you get 5% royalties off each sale, we the publisher get 95% (ripoff)
  
• release date determined by publisher
  
• marketing team has ultimate POWAH in decision making that they deem important for the commercial success (even if they're wrong)
  
• you must not question the googling skills of the marketing team
  
• contract expires at game release
  
• you will eat cat food in prison if you break the contract
  
• etc etc etc

*exaggerating - ofcourse the contract contains sophisticated political and administrative language to make it as harder for an avreage guy to understand as possible - the main reason why developers accept it at beginning and then back out - this type of tricks are less common today because the developer community is way more aware and cautious about it than ever in the past.


If you as a dev accept that then that's it - the lawyers sign it, they don't really care what the terms are, they get their money for validating it.

But I'm curious why Human Head took all this time to figure out the contract was bad ...


----------------------------
Anyways

These kind of contracts are gone since the evil EA times --- developers were much less experienced with how business works back then, some of them are still now but many of them realized they must own the IP and make proper contracts.

Devs like Valve and Crytek do have EA as a publisher, but those are mere publishing arrangements which EA offers as a menu of services with many different sets, so no, EA still has no control over Crytek or Valve.
----------------------------


The funny thing is ... Zenimax is ought to be the best publisher .... now, the PREY2 debocle isn't helping their image.

They're not transparent with us and now that we got the whistleblower telling about totally confirms and re-inforces the suspicions ... the thing called "public company image" is starting to go downward. I hope John Carmack has some fail-safe backroll plan in the event Zenimax goes nuclear.

The bottom line is - the mod tools are in QA - and it's a pretty easy to figure out an ETA. I've always asked they don't need to make a certain date, because they can't stick to it, and im not asking to stick to it, im just asking a freaking ROUGH ESTIMATE in days or months or years. Just say whatever it is "it's not going to be in the next days man" or "it's not going to be in the next few months man" or "it's not going to be this year".

Hopefully this promising is what they don't want to do - but i can tell you, whatever you do don't think that by not announcing it will help you - you will just make more harm because there would be no people waiting for it even if that cuts the pressure ... and when tools get out it'll be all over the web just because everyone has that tiny piece of awareness about it, the adoption rate would have been significantly smaller, at least initially if people weren't prepared 1 year before it, and also for the convenience factors such as the PC specs, with the x64-only exe, so peolpe should know in advance incase anyone re-installs windows in the meantime.

They're still QAing the tools, so it's not far off. It should be in the coming weeks, but the important thing is it needs to be ready before it's released.

Very few people care anymore. We still are being ignored. Why is it taking so long? Are the two people working on on vacation. WTF. You managed to build a game with the tools, they must work.

The important thing is that you have so ignored and dumbed down the PC game that I doubt there will be anyone running the game when they are released. My copy is gone on May 1, I will not have 25 Gig of my SSD tied up forever.

We will not forget this. Die Quakcon die.

^ please don't take that as an indication of everyone, there's people who'll be all over idstudio when it's released. Going by this and other forums there's still people hoping for good DLC too.

Oh, yeah, and how many of those are there? Three, maybe four persons in total? People stopped caring long ago. You had a chance in November, MAYBE December, but April or even May? You'll either have to give something out for free to get the attention to the game, or just accept the fact that it's dead.

So you are here because you don't care?

Because the only people interested in idStudio are the people posting in this forum section? Yeah right.

What other forums? There's this and Steam.

Angry is the word.

There's this thing called Google, it does really amazing things like taking words you type in and sourcing information for you.

Here I'll help you, try something along the lines of RAGE New DLC forums. Add in an April (up to you, experiment) if you want to lock it down to the recent announcement for interest. You will find there are other people on "other forums" with interest in RAGE DLC.

Anger is usually an initial reaction, that tends to translate into bitterness if held onto and can't really be called anger. Being bitter over a game is probably a good indication more balance is needed.

Are people still seriously gonna whine childishly about this?

Being mad won't make the tools come sooner. They also don't give a sh1t about a couple guys throwing mean words at them.
The tools are comming and I've seen way more people still caring than those saying they don't care anymore.

But why, oh why... why are you still complaining? Just what are you accomplishing by telling id to hurry up? Nothing.
Just like a reall parent will ignore a child that cries for an expensive toy.

But I guess this all makes sense, anger makes people act and post with you guessed it.... anger.

LOL, Jimmy Shelter's new incarnation. A psychiatrist this time.

I paid way too much money for this POS console game. It does make me angry when I contemplate the lies and and broken promise the game buildup was based on.

It is not a wonderful game on purpose. It's a money maker and I do not share the American fascination with monetary success which BTW will and is destroying the US economy. Go ahead follow the money ... right into the "jaws and slashing of the mangler" Ed Saunders Truckstop.

What lies specifically?


Yep, that's probably why they took so long... deliberately taking out all the wonderful before they released it.

3 or 4 people is a better indication of the people who don't like it still on this forum. You wanna exaggarate, ill join: Absolutely everyone in the world loves this game! The people who say the don't like it are lying, they love it more than their parents too.

How about anyone who just spits out the same unconstructive crap all the time leaves the forum, cos while you technically are "welcome here", it gets a little tiresome reading the same bulls&*^ over and over again. We get it, you don't like it, you've been betrayed, it's too easy, it's a console game. Cool. You've made your point, go away and leave the forum to people who actually want to know news about the game, discuss possible improvements, what they want to see in DLC, etc. People can come and criticise the game, but the same people saying the same crap is ridiculous and monotonous.

BTW, anyone wanna see all the people interested in the game, go see the thread about what you wanna see out of DLC? Or go to STEAM and check played count max for the day. It has been steadily sitting at around 1000 for ages, this is 6 months after release with no added content. It's only very recently that it has hit much below that. Still at 800. No news. No mods. So you tell me there is no interest in this game, and I can almost guarantee that there will be plenty more people jumping back on when stuff is released. BTW, that is just PC, not counting all the people who play console, remembering the console crowd is larger. It just seems that the minority who don't like the game can kick up a huge storm.

I doubt we can sue id for false advertizing if that's what you mean. They did their level best to compare to open world shooters like the Fallout 3D games and Borderlands. They even put a Fallout Bobblehead in the major's office. The ads show NPC action that was never in the game, the bandits up high as the car drives around, and stuff like that gave the impression it was going to be an open world game. When pressed Willits said "open but directed" ... I laughed. I had already figured out it was BS.

There is nothing remotely open about Rage.


There is no wonderful as they made the game for console wienies and made it"newbie friendly". I have all id's games and there is nothing else like this POS in the entire oeuvre. There are lesser and greater games but they, until Rage, were all decent shooters with some possibility of being "hard". Rage is in a different category ... post sellout.

Umm America's Army 3 a free game is usually above Rage on that list. It's circling the drain in the bottom 10 - 15 these days. That is number of PC players in the entire world you understand.

Did you ever play the h2h mudfest competition wads I provided? They make regular Doom seem pretty tame. I can help if you have problems running them.

It might still be bottom 10 or 15, but it still has next to no support since 6 months after release, so that's why I am saying that it is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's all well and good that there are games higher than it on the list, but that was not the point that I was making. I am simply saying that people who say "the 3 - 4 people still interested in this game" are just crapping on about nothing and making things look worse than they are. It's not a massive community by any stretch of the imagine, but it is there and it will kick up when the content is released. Already I am noticing more and ore people on the forum, they come by, post a couple of comments, see what is happening, etc. With news being released, things will get a bit busier around here.

And with the wads you gave me, I'm still to use them, but I'm now in the last 4 weeks of uni (this emester anyway) and things have kicked up considerably. My STEAM rating has dropped significantly in the last 2 weeks It's certainly on my to-do list though, got a couple of thngs to get through, I am still to finish Doom - TNT Evilution, but the wads will be straight after that. I'll send you a PM when I start and let you know how badly I get carved up in the first hour Thanks again for sending them as well!

So.. you did realise before you bought the game that it wasn't going to be open world but are still angry about it. Carmack made it pretty clear pre-release that their engine wasn't able to do an open world game like Fallout, as well as Willit's comments (these were in their own videos, not information he was 'pushed' for btw). There are open elements and it is as open (as far as engine goes) as Borderlands, major exception being game design direction and that there are lesser hubs connected together to give it that impression.

I'm still not quite sure why you think they lied. It was obvious what it was going to be, maybe just not what you wanted it to be.



Obviously there's a lot of people who'd disagree (as there are those who would no doubt agree), that's pretty common in most games as are the quoted types of remarks. Most of us can agree that it was all a bit easy, playing Wasteland Legends solo made me wish the rest of the singleplayer had at least been of a similar difficulty, but it didn't kill my enjoyment of the game, the character, the gunplay, the artistic direction.

I think you need to either A) accept it isn't your type of game and move on or B) enjoy it for what it is and look forward to idstudio and participating (actively or passively) in making it the game you really wanted if it's that important to you.

Either is better than continuously blaming other people, gamers or id, for a game that's not exactly how you think it should be.

And what NOT being mad gives you? You obviously feel so superior, so above all the people that had enough of this crap and can't take it anymore?
There is no "whining" and nothing "childish" about customers being angry because they were deceived and fed false promises. They are in their right to be angry. The tools are bloody obviously AREN'T coming and even if they are, nobody needs them, because the game is deader than disco. And about seeing more people saying that they care than those say that they don't - WELL THAT'S BECAUSE MOST OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE DON'T CARE SO MUCH THEY WON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT THIS GAME.
Because we can. Because we need to relieve our anger. And we are accomplishing just that.
No, there is nothing right in your anology. Because it's not "parent not giving child an expensive toy". It's "company ignoring it's customers and not giving them tools they promised to be released SIX BLOODY MONTHS AGO". You know, we here call it a "scam". We don't depend on the company. Company depends on us - the clients and the client is always right. So, we're actually the parent here. And child doesn't do his/her homework. AGAIN.

I could tell from the trailers that there was going to be a scripted one way game. I was surprised by how restrictive it was with no movement even possible in many areas. With the baked in lighting and static environment and sky it is a big step back in immersion and gameplay in many ways. I was, again, surprised by how much was thrown away just to make it pretty. .


The game is stupid easy. I played over half of it on nightmare without getting killed.

id has thrown the PC game under the bus and hauled out a "newbie friendly" money maker for the kids with consoles. As Doom 4 will be "for the money" it will be similar and I will have no reason to ever play an id game again.

Then I will leave the POS alone and I won't bother the multitudes on Doom 4 forums. Rage I paid $60 for and I will continue to express my anger and disappointment at the practices and direction of what was once one of my favorite companies.

http://www.gamesas.com/user/590247-richard-teph/, it's true you are releiving your anger, but posting on and on is kind of pointless, because, as you might have noticed, it's not making idSoftware release the tools or DLC any sooner. Nor is it making them care any bit more. They are doing their job to make sure things get shipped, and I'm sure it's quite frustrating for them as well.

I would not have such a problem with the static environments if they just added more effects. Also some interactive effects were not even limited by id tech 5.

1 128 bit HDR light with eye adaption
2 Bokeu depth of field
3 Pixel perfect motion blur in both full screen and object based
4 Dynamic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_lighting effects
5 Perfect Anti-Aliasing
6 4k, 8k, 16k texture option in the menu
7 Higher resolution source art
8 Real time local reflections
9 Interactive water
10 Procedural animal system to populate the world, with eagles, and coyotes, and lizards.

Well, they should've made sure SIX MONTHS AGO. And you know, the fact that they don't care doesn't give them any extra points. The complete opposite, actually.

Some people seem upset now...imagine how upset people may be after all this hoopla to have a severely limited IdStudio.

Perhaps the whole idea should be scraqed. Better wondering what coulda been instead of getting the item and being dissapointed.