Let's see. Skyrim's main feature(to me) is that it puts you in a wonderful world with countless of hours of things to do. Longetivity is a key feature here. Shouldn't the underlying goal of testing this type of game be to put in many many hours to see if anything goes wrong?
Latest News for Patch *FIXING* and more...
» Sat May 19, 2012 7:52 am
Let's see. Skyrim's main feature(to me) is that it puts you in a wonderful world with countless of hours of things to do. Longetivity is a key feature here. Shouldn't the underlying goal of testing this type of game be to put in many many hours to see if anything goes wrong?
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FirDaus LOVe farhana - Posts: 3369
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:42 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 2:06 am
Is there some petition I can sign to fire the QA testers for the ps3 version and make sure they never test a game again?
Let's see. Skyrim's main feature(to me) is that it puts you in a wonderful world with countless of hours of things to do. Longetivity is a key feature here. Shouldn't the underlying goal of testing this type of game be to put in many many hours to see if anything goes wrong?
Let's see. Skyrim's main feature(to me) is that it puts you in a wonderful world with countless of hours of things to do. Longetivity is a key feature here. Shouldn't the underlying goal of testing this type of game be to put in many many hours to see if anything goes wrong?
its obvious beth knew about the issue, there not dumb. everything you said is right, and im sure their aware of every point you make. regardless whether they communicate with us or not anymore then they already have ..
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Emily Jeffs - Posts: 3335
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:27 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 3:43 pm
I thing they would have more tests with the game before they releasing it to the people.....
Anyway.....three days to go......
Anyway.....three days to go......
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Lexy Dick - Posts: 3459
- Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:15 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 1:50 pm
68 hours so far 9648kb... game so laggy after few minutes of play time... restart, the smoothness last another few minutes. when it was around 5mb restarting does help for a few hours, but now its not worth restarting :/
See this is interesting. Lots of time for you and minimal data space, yet mine is like 11mb now though I do not know how long I've played. I know it is no where near 68 hours.
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Bethany Watkin - Posts: 3445
- Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:13 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 12:14 pm
Haha this is one great article!
No Skyrim, That’s a Bad Skyrim!
Published on November 24, 2011 (http://www.it-networks.org/2011/11/24/no-skyrim-thats-a-bad-skyrim/)
Even though I’m only a little over 10 hours in to Bethesda’s amazing The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, I’m fairly confident that it’s the biggest, most expansive, and most (I hate to use this word) immersive role-playing game I have ever played on a game console. The depth and variety of the things you can do in Skyrim is made more effective by the stunning production values — from the art to the music to the overall design of things — and has left me hopelessly addicted. To the point that my girlfriend may confiscate the PS3 if I don’t start paying less attention to the game and more attention to her.
But a game this big and diverse can’t be without some flaws. And while none of these irritations has got me thinking about rage-quitting, I still find myself occasionally shaking my head (and sometimes my fist) at the little things that are driving me totally nuts:
I can’t use weapons from horseback. – I know this is nothing new to the Elder Scrolls series, but it still drives me nuts. Not even a bow and arrow? The Mongolians took over half the world doing that a couple thousand years ago. Are you telling me these people can’t figure it out for themselves?
Swimming and underwater scenes look awful. – Sure, developers have to make some sacrifices when they’re developing huge open worlds; it can’t all look perfect. But the swimming animations, as well as the view underwater looks like a first pass at the concept. I’m not saying my armor-clad warrior carrying 300 pounds of battleaxes and scrolls and mushrooms should behave exactly correctly (hint: he would sink), but I would like it if the swimming looked a bit better than a cgi animation test from the late ’80s.
When I discover a place, the game doesn’t auto-save. – Yes PC users, I know, save often. But I don’t exactly have an F5 key on my DualShock, now do I? It would be nice to have an auto-save when I discover a place, or at least have it unlock permanently so that if I do die out there on the road somewhere, I can at least get close to where I was.
Enough with the [censored] wolves, already.
Swapping weapons and items is tedious. – The “favorites” system for your inventory is less than ideal. The concept of the radial quick menu may seem a bit over-used, but it is for a reason: it works.
My kingdom for a decent horse. – I guess they were this stiff and clunky in Oblivion, but that’s still no excuse. Bethesda should have gone out and hired whoever programmed the horses for Red Dead Redemption, then paid that person a load of money to make these horses move better. I’ve accidentally killed 3 already and as I said, I’m only 10 hours in.
What the hell happened to my follower? – We were in a fight, in a dungeon, which we won. I walked outside, fast traveled somewhere else…where the hell did she go? For the life of me, I can’t find my companion anywhere. I’m wondering if she’s stuck somewhere because I accidentally told her to wait or something, do I need to go back to that dungeon and look for her? Because if I do, I’m breaking up with Lydia on the spot. After I get back all my enchanted weapons she’s muleing around for me.
My companion keeps blocking me. – You know what, I really don’t miss her. Especially considering how much time she spends blocking doorways. I mean, come on Lydia! This relationship clearly isn’t working.
Can I get some better directions? – OK, I know they don’t have GPS in the alternate fantasy reality of The Elder Scrolls. But is my only solution to just follow a marker on the horizon that may signal something that’s miles away? How am I supposed to navigate the pathways to get there? If these people can shoot fire out of their fingertips, they can figure out a way to show me a more detailed path along the ground or something.
Published on November 24, 2011 (http://www.it-networks.org/2011/11/24/no-skyrim-thats-a-bad-skyrim/)
Even though I’m only a little over 10 hours in to Bethesda’s amazing The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, I’m fairly confident that it’s the biggest, most expansive, and most (I hate to use this word) immersive role-playing game I have ever played on a game console. The depth and variety of the things you can do in Skyrim is made more effective by the stunning production values — from the art to the music to the overall design of things — and has left me hopelessly addicted. To the point that my girlfriend may confiscate the PS3 if I don’t start paying less attention to the game and more attention to her.
But a game this big and diverse can’t be without some flaws. And while none of these irritations has got me thinking about rage-quitting, I still find myself occasionally shaking my head (and sometimes my fist) at the little things that are driving me totally nuts:
I can’t use weapons from horseback. – I know this is nothing new to the Elder Scrolls series, but it still drives me nuts. Not even a bow and arrow? The Mongolians took over half the world doing that a couple thousand years ago. Are you telling me these people can’t figure it out for themselves?
Swimming and underwater scenes look awful. – Sure, developers have to make some sacrifices when they’re developing huge open worlds; it can’t all look perfect. But the swimming animations, as well as the view underwater looks like a first pass at the concept. I’m not saying my armor-clad warrior carrying 300 pounds of battleaxes and scrolls and mushrooms should behave exactly correctly (hint: he would sink), but I would like it if the swimming looked a bit better than a cgi animation test from the late ’80s.
When I discover a place, the game doesn’t auto-save. – Yes PC users, I know, save often. But I don’t exactly have an F5 key on my DualShock, now do I? It would be nice to have an auto-save when I discover a place, or at least have it unlock permanently so that if I do die out there on the road somewhere, I can at least get close to where I was.
Enough with the [censored] wolves, already.
Swapping weapons and items is tedious. – The “favorites” system for your inventory is less than ideal. The concept of the radial quick menu may seem a bit over-used, but it is for a reason: it works.
My kingdom for a decent horse. – I guess they were this stiff and clunky in Oblivion, but that’s still no excuse. Bethesda should have gone out and hired whoever programmed the horses for Red Dead Redemption, then paid that person a load of money to make these horses move better. I’ve accidentally killed 3 already and as I said, I’m only 10 hours in.
What the hell happened to my follower? – We were in a fight, in a dungeon, which we won. I walked outside, fast traveled somewhere else…where the hell did she go? For the life of me, I can’t find my companion anywhere. I’m wondering if she’s stuck somewhere because I accidentally told her to wait or something, do I need to go back to that dungeon and look for her? Because if I do, I’m breaking up with Lydia on the spot. After I get back all my enchanted weapons she’s muleing around for me.
My companion keeps blocking me. – You know what, I really don’t miss her. Especially considering how much time she spends blocking doorways. I mean, come on Lydia! This relationship clearly isn’t working.
Can I get some better directions? – OK, I know they don’t have GPS in the alternate fantasy reality of The Elder Scrolls. But is my only solution to just follow a marker on the horizon that may signal something that’s miles away? How am I supposed to navigate the pathways to get there? If these people can shoot fire out of their fingertips, they can figure out a way to show me a more detailed path along the ground or something.
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Misty lt - Posts: 3400
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:06 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 1:48 pm
Skyrim patch v1.2 new details revealed by Hines
Posted on 26. Nov, 2011 (http://www.gamepur.com/news/6282-skyrim-patch-v12-new-details-revealed-hines.html)
Last week Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim publisher Bethesda announced that patch v1.2 for the game was submitted to Sony and Microsoft for certification on PS3 and Xbox 360. At that time Bethesda also revealed that this patch v1.2 will go live week after Thanksgiving.
Today Pete Hines on his personal Twitter account unveils some more clarification about the launch time frame of the patch. Hines said patch v1.2 for PS3 and Xbox 360 is expected to during "first half of next week"
The official patch note for the update was not revealed, but Pete Hines did say that "improved performance for long-term play on PS3" was on the list for patch 1.2."
Hines promised all Skyrim fans that he would provide a list of fixes once patch has been certed and no other changes will be made.
SO GUYS....FIRST HALF OF NEXT WEEK THEN IT IS...........
Posted on 26. Nov, 2011 (http://www.gamepur.com/news/6282-skyrim-patch-v12-new-details-revealed-hines.html)
Last week Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim publisher Bethesda announced that patch v1.2 for the game was submitted to Sony and Microsoft for certification on PS3 and Xbox 360. At that time Bethesda also revealed that this patch v1.2 will go live week after Thanksgiving.
Today Pete Hines on his personal Twitter account unveils some more clarification about the launch time frame of the patch. Hines said patch v1.2 for PS3 and Xbox 360 is expected to during "first half of next week"
The official patch note for the update was not revealed, but Pete Hines did say that "improved performance for long-term play on PS3" was on the list for patch 1.2."
Hines promised all Skyrim fans that he would provide a list of fixes once patch has been certed and no other changes will be made.
SO GUYS....FIRST HALF OF NEXT WEEK THEN IT IS...........
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Dalton Greynolds - Posts: 3476
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:12 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 5:55 am
Skyrim patch v1.2 new details revealed by Hines
Posted on 26. Nov, 2011 (http://www.gamepur.com/news/6282-skyrim-patch-v12-new-details-revealed-hines.html)
Last week Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim publisher Bethesda announced that patch v1.2 for the game was submitted to Sony and Microsoft for certification on PS3 and Xbox 360. At that time Bethesda also revealed that this patch v1.2 will go live week after Thanksgiving.
Today Pete Hines on his personal Twitter account unveils some more clarification about the launch time frame of the patch. Hines said patch v1.2 for PS3 and Xbox 360 is expected to during "first half of next week"
The official patch note for the update was not revealed, but Pete Hines did say that "improved performance for long-term play on PS3" was on the list for patch 1.2."
Hines promised all Skyrim fans that he would provide a list of fixes once patch has been certed and no other changes will be made.
SO GUYS....FIRST HALF OF NEXT WEEK THEN IT IS...........
Posted on 26. Nov, 2011 (http://www.gamepur.com/news/6282-skyrim-patch-v12-new-details-revealed-hines.html)
Last week Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim publisher Bethesda announced that patch v1.2 for the game was submitted to Sony and Microsoft for certification on PS3 and Xbox 360. At that time Bethesda also revealed that this patch v1.2 will go live week after Thanksgiving.
Today Pete Hines on his personal Twitter account unveils some more clarification about the launch time frame of the patch. Hines said patch v1.2 for PS3 and Xbox 360 is expected to during "first half of next week"
The official patch note for the update was not revealed, but Pete Hines did say that "improved performance for long-term play on PS3" was on the list for patch 1.2."
Hines promised all Skyrim fans that he would provide a list of fixes once patch has been certed and no other changes will be made.
SO GUYS....FIRST HALF OF NEXT WEEK THEN IT IS...........
"Before launch, Howard said, Bethesda is testing Skyrim rigorously and more heavily using a system that runs automated versions of the game overnight, searching for bugs and helping the team squash them. "We're getting better at it," Howard said."
Apparently it was opposite day at Kotaku and what Howard meant was "We're getting worse at it."
http://kotaku.com/5834914/the-skyrim-team-has-a-better-plan-for-squashing-bugs-this-time
So riddle me this: I've been reading through a lot of interviews that Howard and Hines did in the year leading up to the release of Skyrim. In the vast majority they claim to have worked harder and longer on it than most games before it as well as being aware of their history of being known for bug ridden games at launch. Yet here we are with nearly 60,000 posts in the technical section split between nonstop crashes on the PC and broken slide shows on the PS3. How is it that a company who can make 420 million off the launch of one game can't afford to hire 20 additional people at 8 dollars and hour to playtest a game thoroughly for six months? It sure as hell isn't cost related go look up Bethesda and Zenimax, they aren't hurting for money at all.
It's been a week, an entire week that my copy of Skyrim has been sitting collecting dust. Now I get to look forward to another 3 day or longer wait for a patch which was already on way to cert before the real issues even built up enough steam to get noticed.
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CArla HOlbert - Posts: 3342
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:35 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 3:03 am
Petition asks Obama to destroy all copies of Skyrim
Published 25 November, 2011 (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-25-man-petitions-obama-to-destroy-all-copies-of-skyrim)
UPDATE: Satirical website Christwire at work.
UPDATE: The petition reported below is in fact the work of satirical website Christwire. It was a joke and we fell for it. Sorry guys!
ORIGINAL STORY: A concerned US citizen has petitioned The White House to destroy all copies of Bethesda's acclaimed RPG The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and prosecute anyone caught playing it.
As reported by Kotaku, one B Stephenson of Tennessee submitted the following list of demands to The White House's We The People site:
We petition the Obama administration to: Immediately Ban the Deadly Videogame Known as 'SkyRim' for The Safety of America's Youths.
"Whereas videogaming has proven to cause social, ethical and health problems in people of all ages,
"Whereas sixual perversion and homosixuality are threatening to destroy the Christian foundations on which this nation was built,
"Whereas a new video game has just been created that far exceeds any others in the psychological and spiritual damage it does to teens,
"We, the American people, today ask you,
1. To enact an immediate ban on the videogame known as 'SkyRim' produced by Blizzard Entertainment.
2. To seize and destroy all copies already in public hands and erase its presence on the internet.
3. To prosecute the players of 'SkyRim' to the fullest extent of the law.
4. To create a national database of videogame avatars and 'screen names' so that teenagers can be better monitored."
Any petition that manages to attract more than 25,000 signatures from the American public within 30 days of publication will garner an official response from the administration.
The Skyrim petition currently boasts ten.
Published 25 November, 2011 (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-25-man-petitions-obama-to-destroy-all-copies-of-skyrim)
UPDATE: Satirical website Christwire at work.
UPDATE: The petition reported below is in fact the work of satirical website Christwire. It was a joke and we fell for it. Sorry guys!
ORIGINAL STORY: A concerned US citizen has petitioned The White House to destroy all copies of Bethesda's acclaimed RPG The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and prosecute anyone caught playing it.
As reported by Kotaku, one B Stephenson of Tennessee submitted the following list of demands to The White House's We The People site:
We petition the Obama administration to: Immediately Ban the Deadly Videogame Known as 'SkyRim' for The Safety of America's Youths.
"Whereas videogaming has proven to cause social, ethical and health problems in people of all ages,
"Whereas sixual perversion and homosixuality are threatening to destroy the Christian foundations on which this nation was built,
"Whereas a new video game has just been created that far exceeds any others in the psychological and spiritual damage it does to teens,
"We, the American people, today ask you,
1. To enact an immediate ban on the videogame known as 'SkyRim' produced by Blizzard Entertainment.
2. To seize and destroy all copies already in public hands and erase its presence on the internet.
3. To prosecute the players of 'SkyRim' to the fullest extent of the law.
4. To create a national database of videogame avatars and 'screen names' so that teenagers can be better monitored."
Any petition that manages to attract more than 25,000 signatures from the American public within 30 days of publication will garner an official response from the administration.
The Skyrim petition currently boasts ten.
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IsAiah AkA figgy - Posts: 3398
- Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:43 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 12:22 pm
When I started reading that I thought is was something to do will people rage quitting and causing violence.
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Lady Shocka - Posts: 3452
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:59 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 2:37 am
"Before launch, Howard said, Bethesda is testing Skyrim rigorously and more heavily using a system that runs automated versions of the game overnight, searching for bugs and helping the team squash them. "We're getting better at it," Howard said."
Apparently it was opposite day at Kotaku and what Howard meant was "We're getting worse at it."
http://kotaku.com/5834914/the-skyrim-team-has-a-better-plan-for-squashing-bugs-this-time
So riddle me this: I've been reading through a lot of interviews that Howard and Hines did in the year leading up to the release of Skyrim. In the vast majority they claim to have worked harder and longer on it than most games before it as well as being aware of their history of being known for bug ridden games at launch. Yet here we are with nearly 60,000 posts in the technical section split between nonstop crashes on the PC and broken slide shows on the PS3. How is it that a company who can make 420 million off the launch of one game can't afford to hire 20 additional people at 8 dollars and hour to playtest a game thoroughly for six months? It sure as hell isn't cost related go look up Bethesda and Zenimax, they aren't hurting for money at all.
It's been a week, an entire week that my copy of Skyrim has been sitting collecting dust. Now I get to look forward to another 3 day or longer wait for a patch which was already on way to cert before the real issues even built up enough steam to get noticed.
Apparently it was opposite day at Kotaku and what Howard meant was "We're getting worse at it."
http://kotaku.com/5834914/the-skyrim-team-has-a-better-plan-for-squashing-bugs-this-time
So riddle me this: I've been reading through a lot of interviews that Howard and Hines did in the year leading up to the release of Skyrim. In the vast majority they claim to have worked harder and longer on it than most games before it as well as being aware of their history of being known for bug ridden games at launch. Yet here we are with nearly 60,000 posts in the technical section split between nonstop crashes on the PC and broken slide shows on the PS3. How is it that a company who can make 420 million off the launch of one game can't afford to hire 20 additional people at 8 dollars and hour to playtest a game thoroughly for six months? It sure as hell isn't cost related go look up Bethesda and Zenimax, they aren't hurting for money at all.
It's been a week, an entire week that my copy of Skyrim has been sitting collecting dust. Now I get to look forward to another 3 day or longer wait for a patch which was already on way to cert before the real issues even built up enough steam to get noticed.
As for the......runs automated versions of the game.....you have right a guess.....
As for.......can't afford to hire 20 additional people at 8 dollars and hour to playtest a game thoroughly for six months?.....i would ask the same question to Blizzard....
Why such company with blockbusters like Diablo and Starcraft...have not the many to hire additional people....to make Diablo III go to production faster...??????
You get the point i think.......
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Prohibited - Posts: 3293
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:13 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 4:32 pm
When I started reading that I thought is was something to do will people rage quitting and causing violence.
I thought the same as you.....lol
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Sanctum - Posts: 3524
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:29 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 5:21 am
Skyrim patch 1.2 deal breaker for some
November 26, 2011 (http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/20111126/skyrim-patch-1-2-deal-breaker-for-some/)
We’ve heard from a few gamers that are waiting a little while before buying Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and each of these people have different reasons for not buying the game at launch.
Some people know that Christmas is almost here and don’t want to spoil getting the game as a gift, others know their work commitments are too great to spare time before Christmas, and then there are those who know the Skyrim patch v1.2 is scheduled for release next week.
The latter gamers are waiting to see if the list of problems are fixed before they buy the game, and we’ve had emails specifically about this. One reader said “I saw the PS3 lag issue on a friends Skyrim, and I want to see if the game works properly after patch 1.2, then I’ll buy the game.”
Can you relate to this if you’ve not bought Skyrim yet? We’ve been playing Skyrim since its release, and with well over 100 hours under our belt. Our first impressions are one of pure excitement, and we’re cool waiting for the lag fix, although if this patch doesn’t fix the lag on PS3 then it will be a disaster, which those experiencing this will know too well.
The PS3 is not the only system experiencing issues, and we’re sure certain Xbox 360 and PC owners are also hoping the 1.2 update will fix some problems they’re having.
November 26, 2011 (http://www.inentertainment.co.uk/20111126/skyrim-patch-1-2-deal-breaker-for-some/)
We’ve heard from a few gamers that are waiting a little while before buying Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and each of these people have different reasons for not buying the game at launch.
Some people know that Christmas is almost here and don’t want to spoil getting the game as a gift, others know their work commitments are too great to spare time before Christmas, and then there are those who know the Skyrim patch v1.2 is scheduled for release next week.
The latter gamers are waiting to see if the list of problems are fixed before they buy the game, and we’ve had emails specifically about this. One reader said “I saw the PS3 lag issue on a friends Skyrim, and I want to see if the game works properly after patch 1.2, then I’ll buy the game.”
Can you relate to this if you’ve not bought Skyrim yet? We’ve been playing Skyrim since its release, and with well over 100 hours under our belt. Our first impressions are one of pure excitement, and we’re cool waiting for the lag fix, although if this patch doesn’t fix the lag on PS3 then it will be a disaster, which those experiencing this will know too well.
The PS3 is not the only system experiencing issues, and we’re sure certain Xbox 360 and PC owners are also hoping the 1.2 update will fix some problems they’re having.
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megan gleeson - Posts: 3493
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:01 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 1:35 pm
The most scary weapon that Bethesda have is ''HOPE''.
People do not fall for this, hope is what pushing you to stop complaining, be sure that the patch won't fix the lag problems:
'Improved performance for long-term play '' is not ''fixing drop of frame rate''
The only thing I wan't to say is that I ''hope'' that my conlcusions are false.
People do not fall for this, hope is what pushing you to stop complaining, be sure that the patch won't fix the lag problems:
'Improved performance for long-term play '' is not ''fixing drop of frame rate''
The only thing I wan't to say is that I ''hope'' that my conlcusions are false.
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Gavin Roberts - Posts: 3335
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:14 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 3:54 pm
Skyrim is a dangerous place: 100 Ways To Die In Skyrim
(on Nov 26th 2011 10:30AM0
LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LmqGHXsF1Lk
Bonus Video: "100 Ways To Die In Skyrim *BONUS* "The Lost Death Chronicles"
LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVTlg2jkw58
VERY FUNNY AND HELPFUL VIDEOS...CHECK IT OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(on Nov 26th 2011 10:30AM0
LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LmqGHXsF1Lk
Bonus Video: "100 Ways To Die In Skyrim *BONUS* "The Lost Death Chronicles"
LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVTlg2jkw58
VERY FUNNY AND HELPFUL VIDEOS...CHECK IT OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JeSsy ArEllano - Posts: 3369
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:51 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 6:10 am
Hating on Skyrim. What is it with some people?
(Posted by Paul on November 24, 2011) (http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/)
I took a trip to the official Bethesda forums in search of ideas for discussion topics or blog posts
Big mistake
Page after page of threads complaining, whining and [censored]ing about the things that should have been in the game, should have been different or were better in Oblivion / Morrowind / Daggerfall (delete as applicable). Here's a selection of titles:
"I HATE, HATE, HATE what Bethesda did to this game"
"Anyone else bored already? Going back to Oblivion"
"Worst lag I've ever seen"
"Sorry but these graphics are TERRIBLE"
and my personal favourite... "Class Action Law Suit against Bethesda...NOW!!!"
Why do people feel the need to populate the official forums (which despite being 'official' are almost certainly hardly ever read by anyone high up at Bethesda) with this kind of stuff?
Picking through the wreckage, it seems there are - very broadly - three kinds of issues:
1. There are those who convinced themselves before release that this was going to be the most awesome and incredible and - above all else - perfect game EVER. Every feature that was ever mentioned or hinted was expected to be perfectly implemented and ground-breaking in its scope. In short, they got carried away by the hype....
To be fair, and I confess to a slight pang of guilt over this, The Skyrim Blog might have been some small part of the hype machine. But, you see, the thing is I never allowed myself to get too carried away. I never expected companions to be much more than 'meat shields' or pack mules. I never expected children to be more than a bit of eye candy around towns. I never expected marriage to be much more than a gimmick. So I'm not that disappointed when those things turned out to be the case. I guess that's what 20 years of waiting for, and then playing, video games has done for my cynical side.
2. Then we have a whole bunch of people who are complaining about so-called 'missing' features. Usually its prefaced with some sort of whine about how Todd Howard has lied, cheated and deceived the entire world. One example was someone complaining that Pete Hines 'lied' about treasure maps being in the game because they had 'beaten Skyrim' and not found any.
Well, here's the truth of it buddy. If you hadn't blasted through the game in 20 hours, so you could brag to your mates that you had 'beaten' the game, then you might have done a little exploration and - hey - you might have found a treasure map or two. I've barely left Whiterun Hold and I've already found two, in fact I found one before I even got to Riverwood!
I blame the short attention span games with their 4 hour single player story lines that people expect to 'beat' on the day of release before moving onto their next game.
3. The third category is people who have experienced glitches, issues and crashes. Obviously one has to have a certain sympathy with people who have had this. Patches are on their way to begin to address these things, so we'll have to see whether those will improve things.
I know that as a PC player most (not all) of the issues that happen are actually not to do with game itself, but with particular complexities to do with the specific combination of parts that go to make up a PC. And, of course, a lot of it is down to drivers, firewalls, messed up hard drives and a range of other 'issues' that can be fixed with a bit of care, time and common sense. Speaking purely personally, I spent a whole morning making sure that my PC was ready for Skyrim. Yes its boring to do all the updates, defrag and other 'housekeeping' - but it has led to a crash-free, glitch free game for me, so it was time well spent...
Is Skyrim 100% perfect? No, of course it isn't. It would be silly to expect that it would have been. That's why I don't mind discussion here about its shortcomings. As I've said many times we are fans of Skyrim here, but not '[censored]'...
But is Skyrim an ambitious, engaging and wonderful achievement? Absolutely it is.
Patches, DLC and Mods will make the game even better than it is now, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out in coming months and years. But right now I'm amazed and a bit stunned by the outpouring of vitriol towards Skyrim on Bethesda forums. Most of it is immature, overstated and, in many cases, just plain wrong...
What is it with some people?
(Posted by Paul on November 24, 2011) (http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/)
I took a trip to the official Bethesda forums in search of ideas for discussion topics or blog posts
Big mistake
Page after page of threads complaining, whining and [censored]ing about the things that should have been in the game, should have been different or were better in Oblivion / Morrowind / Daggerfall (delete as applicable). Here's a selection of titles:
"I HATE, HATE, HATE what Bethesda did to this game"
"Anyone else bored already? Going back to Oblivion"
"Worst lag I've ever seen"
"Sorry but these graphics are TERRIBLE"
and my personal favourite... "Class Action Law Suit against Bethesda...NOW!!!"
Why do people feel the need to populate the official forums (which despite being 'official' are almost certainly hardly ever read by anyone high up at Bethesda) with this kind of stuff?
Picking through the wreckage, it seems there are - very broadly - three kinds of issues:
1. There are those who convinced themselves before release that this was going to be the most awesome and incredible and - above all else - perfect game EVER. Every feature that was ever mentioned or hinted was expected to be perfectly implemented and ground-breaking in its scope. In short, they got carried away by the hype....
To be fair, and I confess to a slight pang of guilt over this, The Skyrim Blog might have been some small part of the hype machine. But, you see, the thing is I never allowed myself to get too carried away. I never expected companions to be much more than 'meat shields' or pack mules. I never expected children to be more than a bit of eye candy around towns. I never expected marriage to be much more than a gimmick. So I'm not that disappointed when those things turned out to be the case. I guess that's what 20 years of waiting for, and then playing, video games has done for my cynical side.
2. Then we have a whole bunch of people who are complaining about so-called 'missing' features. Usually its prefaced with some sort of whine about how Todd Howard has lied, cheated and deceived the entire world. One example was someone complaining that Pete Hines 'lied' about treasure maps being in the game because they had 'beaten Skyrim' and not found any.
Well, here's the truth of it buddy. If you hadn't blasted through the game in 20 hours, so you could brag to your mates that you had 'beaten' the game, then you might have done a little exploration and - hey - you might have found a treasure map or two. I've barely left Whiterun Hold and I've already found two, in fact I found one before I even got to Riverwood!
I blame the short attention span games with their 4 hour single player story lines that people expect to 'beat' on the day of release before moving onto their next game.
3. The third category is people who have experienced glitches, issues and crashes. Obviously one has to have a certain sympathy with people who have had this. Patches are on their way to begin to address these things, so we'll have to see whether those will improve things.
I know that as a PC player most (not all) of the issues that happen are actually not to do with game itself, but with particular complexities to do with the specific combination of parts that go to make up a PC. And, of course, a lot of it is down to drivers, firewalls, messed up hard drives and a range of other 'issues' that can be fixed with a bit of care, time and common sense. Speaking purely personally, I spent a whole morning making sure that my PC was ready for Skyrim. Yes its boring to do all the updates, defrag and other 'housekeeping' - but it has led to a crash-free, glitch free game for me, so it was time well spent...
Is Skyrim 100% perfect? No, of course it isn't. It would be silly to expect that it would have been. That's why I don't mind discussion here about its shortcomings. As I've said many times we are fans of Skyrim here, but not '[censored]'...
But is Skyrim an ambitious, engaging and wonderful achievement? Absolutely it is.
Patches, DLC and Mods will make the game even better than it is now, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out in coming months and years. But right now I'm amazed and a bit stunned by the outpouring of vitriol towards Skyrim on Bethesda forums. Most of it is immature, overstated and, in many cases, just plain wrong...
What is it with some people?
-
phillip crookes - Posts: 3420
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:39 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 5:18 am
Hating on Skyrim. What is it with some people?
(Posted by Paul on November 24, 2011) (http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/)
I took a trip to the official Bethesda forums in search of ideas for discussion topics or blog posts
Big mistake
Page after page of threads complaining, whining and [censored]ing about the things that should have been in the game, should have been different or were better in Oblivion / Morrowind / Daggerfall (delete as applicable). Here's a selection of titles:
"I HATE, HATE, HATE what Bethesda did to this game"
"Anyone else bored already? Going back to Oblivion"
"Worst lag I've ever seen"
"Sorry but these graphics are TERRIBLE"
and my personal favourite... "Class Action Law Suit against Bethesda...NOW!!!"
Why do people feel the need to populate the official forums (which despite being 'official' are almost certainly hardly ever read by anyone high up at Bethesda) with this kind of stuff?
Picking through the wreckage, it seems there are - very broadly - three kinds of issues:
1. There are those who convinced themselves before release that this was going to be the most awesome and incredible and - above all else - perfect game EVER. Every feature that was ever mentioned or hinted was expected to be perfectly implemented and ground-breaking in its scope. In short, they got carried away by the hype....
To be fair, and I confess to a slight pang of guilt over this, The Skyrim Blog might have been some small part of the hype machine. But, you see, the thing is I never allowed myself to get too carried away. I never expected companions to be much more than 'meat shields' or pack mules. I never expected children to be more than a bit of eye candy around towns. I never expected marriage to be much more than a gimmick. So I'm not that disappointed when those things turned out to be the case. I guess that's what 20 years of waiting for, and then playing, video games has done for my cynical side.
2. Then we have a whole bunch of people who are complaining about so-called 'missing' features. Usually its prefaced with some sort of whine about how Todd Howard has lied, cheated and deceived the entire world. One example was someone complaining that Pete Hines 'lied' about treasure maps being in the game because they had 'beaten Skyrim' and not found any.
Well, here's the truth of it buddy. If you hadn't blasted through the game in 20 hours, so you could brag to your mates that you had 'beaten' the game, then you might have done a little exploration and - hey - you might have found a treasure map or two. I've barely left Whiterun Hold and I've already found two, in fact I found one before I even got to Riverwood!
I blame the short attention span games with their 4 hour single player story lines that people expect to 'beat' on the day of release before moving onto their next game.
3. The third category is people who have experienced glitches, issues and crashes. Obviously one has to have a certain sympathy with people who have had this. Patches are on their way to begin to address these things, so we'll have to see whether those will improve things.
I know that as a PC player most (not all) of the issues that happen are actually not to do with game itself, but with particular complexities to do with the specific combination of parts that go to make up a PC. And, of course, a lot of it is down to drivers, firewalls, messed up hard drives and a range of other 'issues' that can be fixed with a bit of care, time and common sense. Speaking purely personally, I spent a whole morning making sure that my PC was ready for Skyrim. Yes its boring to do all the updates, defrag and other 'housekeeping' - but it has led to a crash-free, glitch free game for me, so it was time well spent...
Is Skyrim 100% perfect? No, of course it isn't. It would be silly to expect that it would have been. That's why I don't mind discussion here about its shortcomings. As I've said many times we are fans of Skyrim here, but not '[censored]'...
But is Skyrim an ambitious, engaging and wonderful achievement? Absolutely it is.
Patches, DLC and Mods will make the game even better than it is now, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out in coming months and years. But right now I'm amazed and a bit stunned by the outpouring of vitriol towards Skyrim on Bethesda forums. Most of it is immature, overstated and, in many cases, just plain wrong...
What is it with some people?
(Posted by Paul on November 24, 2011) (http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/)
I took a trip to the official Bethesda forums in search of ideas for discussion topics or blog posts
Big mistake
Page after page of threads complaining, whining and [censored]ing about the things that should have been in the game, should have been different or were better in Oblivion / Morrowind / Daggerfall (delete as applicable). Here's a selection of titles:
"I HATE, HATE, HATE what Bethesda did to this game"
"Anyone else bored already? Going back to Oblivion"
"Worst lag I've ever seen"
"Sorry but these graphics are TERRIBLE"
and my personal favourite... "Class Action Law Suit against Bethesda...NOW!!!"
Why do people feel the need to populate the official forums (which despite being 'official' are almost certainly hardly ever read by anyone high up at Bethesda) with this kind of stuff?
Picking through the wreckage, it seems there are - very broadly - three kinds of issues:
1. There are those who convinced themselves before release that this was going to be the most awesome and incredible and - above all else - perfect game EVER. Every feature that was ever mentioned or hinted was expected to be perfectly implemented and ground-breaking in its scope. In short, they got carried away by the hype....
To be fair, and I confess to a slight pang of guilt over this, The Skyrim Blog might have been some small part of the hype machine. But, you see, the thing is I never allowed myself to get too carried away. I never expected companions to be much more than 'meat shields' or pack mules. I never expected children to be more than a bit of eye candy around towns. I never expected marriage to be much more than a gimmick. So I'm not that disappointed when those things turned out to be the case. I guess that's what 20 years of waiting for, and then playing, video games has done for my cynical side.
2. Then we have a whole bunch of people who are complaining about so-called 'missing' features. Usually its prefaced with some sort of whine about how Todd Howard has lied, cheated and deceived the entire world. One example was someone complaining that Pete Hines 'lied' about treasure maps being in the game because they had 'beaten Skyrim' and not found any.
Well, here's the truth of it buddy. If you hadn't blasted through the game in 20 hours, so you could brag to your mates that you had 'beaten' the game, then you might have done a little exploration and - hey - you might have found a treasure map or two. I've barely left Whiterun Hold and I've already found two, in fact I found one before I even got to Riverwood!
I blame the short attention span games with their 4 hour single player story lines that people expect to 'beat' on the day of release before moving onto their next game.
3. The third category is people who have experienced glitches, issues and crashes. Obviously one has to have a certain sympathy with people who have had this. Patches are on their way to begin to address these things, so we'll have to see whether those will improve things.
I know that as a PC player most (not all) of the issues that happen are actually not to do with game itself, but with particular complexities to do with the specific combination of parts that go to make up a PC. And, of course, a lot of it is down to drivers, firewalls, messed up hard drives and a range of other 'issues' that can be fixed with a bit of care, time and common sense. Speaking purely personally, I spent a whole morning making sure that my PC was ready for Skyrim. Yes its boring to do all the updates, defrag and other 'housekeeping' - but it has led to a crash-free, glitch free game for me, so it was time well spent...
Is Skyrim 100% perfect? No, of course it isn't. It would be silly to expect that it would have been. That's why I don't mind discussion here about its shortcomings. As I've said many times we are fans of Skyrim here, but not '[censored]'...
But is Skyrim an ambitious, engaging and wonderful achievement? Absolutely it is.
Patches, DLC and Mods will make the game even better than it is now, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out in coming months and years. But right now I'm amazed and a bit stunned by the outpouring of vitriol towards Skyrim on Bethesda forums. Most of it is immature, overstated and, in many cases, just plain wrong...
What is it with some people?
I can understand those reactions since those people paid 60 bucks for a game that's unplayable for them (at the moment). I originally bought the PS3 version but got so frustrated that I got myself the PC-Version, which works flawlessly. It almost feels like a different game. So I know from personal experience that there is definietely something wrong with the PS3 version. I don't know why but I hope Bethesda will fix this so PS3 players can enjoy this awesome game.
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Lilit Ager - Posts: 3444
- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:06 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 1:47 pm
I can understand those reactions since those people paid 60 bucks for a game that's unplayable for them (at he moment).
Completely unplayable for me right now. Have a 60$ glass coaster of my disc. So I do have the right to be pissed. Am I going to go as far as some people have? Probabaly not. But I am definately not happy.
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cosmo valerga - Posts: 3477
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:21 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 11:34 am
I got the game today and I knew about the lag issues and all that. I still went and bought it. Not because I have faith in Bethesda for fixing a serious issue but hoping they can get this over with as soon as humanely possible just so that we all PS3 players can enjoy the game with at least less bugs, less issues. Another reason is because it's an Elder Scrolls game, ffs. The latest one, I might add. I don't have a PC gaming rig. I don't have an Xbox 360. I only have my PS3 and I expect all games that I play on the PS3 are at least bug free or less bugs to the point where it can be playable all throughout the game.
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Rude_Bitch_420 - Posts: 3429
- Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:26 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 2:55 pm
I wonder if I could edit the files on Skyrim to fix it myself.. If they don't of course.. 
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Chica Cheve - Posts: 3411
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:42 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 9:38 am
Well now my game is crashing.. On my account, I can play semi decent, getting the frame rate drops (PS3).. But now my wife is playing on her account, and I have watched the game freeze, and crash two time now... We have to restart the game.. Which kind of svcks because she has to start over at the last place she saved..
I dunno, Bethesda, better deliver on this patch.. ALL this hype, and this is the product, very disappointed
here in my living room...
I dunno, Bethesda, better deliver on this patch.. ALL this hype, and this is the product, very disappointed
here in my living room...-
Brentleah Jeffs - Posts: 3341
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:21 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 12:59 pm
I wonder if I could edit the files on Skyrim to fix it myself.. If they don't of course..
If a am not wrong the patch will be live this week...Why you people can't wait....I asking that myself for days now.....
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Quick Draw - Posts: 3423
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:56 am
» Sat May 19, 2012 4:23 am
So people relax....and enjoy this helpful map....
Full Skyrim map
(As charted and presented by GAMEBANSHEE)
LINK: http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/skyrim/mapofskyrim/skyrimmap.png
ENJOY.....
Full Skyrim map
(As charted and presented by GAMEBANSHEE)
LINK: http://www.gamebanshee.com/showshot.php?/skyrim/mapofskyrim/skyrimmap.png
ENJOY.....
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Trevi - Posts: 3404
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:26 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 3:38 pm
nice thanks for the map mark41
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stevie critchley - Posts: 3404
- Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:36 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 4:04 am
Hating on Skyrim. What is it with some people?
(Posted by Paul on November 24, 2011) (http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/)
I took a trip to the official Bethesda forums in search of ideas for discussion topics or blog posts
Big mistake
Page after page of threads complaining, whining and [censored]ing about the things that should have been in the game, should have been different or were better in Oblivion / Morrowind / Daggerfall (delete as applicable). Here's a selection of titles:
"I HATE, HATE, HATE what Bethesda did to this game"
"Anyone else bored already? Going back to Oblivion"
"Worst lag I've ever seen"
"Sorry but these graphics are TERRIBLE"
and my personal favourite... "Class Action Law Suit against Bethesda...NOW!!!"
Why do people feel the need to populate the official forums (which despite being 'official' are almost certainly hardly ever read by anyone high up at Bethesda) with this kind of stuff?
Picking through the wreckage, it seems there are - very broadly - three kinds of issues:
1. There are those who convinced themselves before release that this was going to be the most awesome and incredible and - above all else - perfect game EVER. Every feature that was ever mentioned or hinted was expected to be perfectly implemented and ground-breaking in its scope. In short, they got carried away by the hype....
To be fair, and I confess to a slight pang of guilt over this, The Skyrim Blog might have been some small part of the hype machine. But, you see, the thing is I never allowed myself to get too carried away. I never expected companions to be much more than 'meat shields' or pack mules. I never expected children to be more than a bit of eye candy around towns. I never expected marriage to be much more than a gimmick. So I'm not that disappointed when those things turned out to be the case. I guess that's what 20 years of waiting for, and then playing, video games has done for my cynical side.
2. Then we have a whole bunch of people who are complaining about so-called 'missing' features. Usually its prefaced with some sort of whine about how Todd Howard has lied, cheated and deceived the entire world. One example was someone complaining that Pete Hines 'lied' about treasure maps being in the game because they had 'beaten Skyrim' and not found any.
Well, here's the truth of it buddy. If you hadn't blasted through the game in 20 hours, so you could brag to your mates that you had 'beaten' the game, then you might have done a little exploration and - hey - you might have found a treasure map or two. I've barely left Whiterun Hold and I've already found two, in fact I found one before I even got to Riverwood!
I blame the short attention span games with their 4 hour single player story lines that people expect to 'beat' on the day of release before moving onto their next game.
3. The third category is people who have experienced glitches, issues and crashes. Obviously one has to have a certain sympathy with people who have had this. Patches are on their way to begin to address these things, so we'll have to see whether those will improve things.
I know that as a PC player most (not all) of the issues that happen are actually not to do with game itself, but with particular complexities to do with the specific combination of parts that go to make up a PC. And, of course, a lot of it is down to drivers, firewalls, messed up hard drives and a range of other 'issues' that can be fixed with a bit of care, time and common sense. Speaking purely personally, I spent a whole morning making sure that my PC was ready for Skyrim. Yes its boring to do all the updates, defrag and other 'housekeeping' - but it has led to a crash-free, glitch free game for me, so it was time well spent...
Is Skyrim 100% perfect? No, of course it isn't. It would be silly to expect that it would have been. That's why I don't mind discussion here about its shortcomings. As I've said many times we are fans of Skyrim here, but not '[censored]'...
But is Skyrim an ambitious, engaging and wonderful achievement? Absolutely it is.
Patches, DLC and Mods will make the game even better than it is now, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out in coming months and years. But right now I'm amazed and a bit stunned by the outpouring of vitriol towards Skyrim on Bethesda forums. Most of it is immature, overstated and, in many cases, just plain wrong...
What is it with some people?
(Posted by Paul on November 24, 2011) (http://theskyrimblog.ning.com/)
I took a trip to the official Bethesda forums in search of ideas for discussion topics or blog posts
Big mistake
Page after page of threads complaining, whining and [censored]ing about the things that should have been in the game, should have been different or were better in Oblivion / Morrowind / Daggerfall (delete as applicable). Here's a selection of titles:
"I HATE, HATE, HATE what Bethesda did to this game"
"Anyone else bored already? Going back to Oblivion"
"Worst lag I've ever seen"
"Sorry but these graphics are TERRIBLE"
and my personal favourite... "Class Action Law Suit against Bethesda...NOW!!!"
Why do people feel the need to populate the official forums (which despite being 'official' are almost certainly hardly ever read by anyone high up at Bethesda) with this kind of stuff?
Picking through the wreckage, it seems there are - very broadly - three kinds of issues:
1. There are those who convinced themselves before release that this was going to be the most awesome and incredible and - above all else - perfect game EVER. Every feature that was ever mentioned or hinted was expected to be perfectly implemented and ground-breaking in its scope. In short, they got carried away by the hype....
To be fair, and I confess to a slight pang of guilt over this, The Skyrim Blog might have been some small part of the hype machine. But, you see, the thing is I never allowed myself to get too carried away. I never expected companions to be much more than 'meat shields' or pack mules. I never expected children to be more than a bit of eye candy around towns. I never expected marriage to be much more than a gimmick. So I'm not that disappointed when those things turned out to be the case. I guess that's what 20 years of waiting for, and then playing, video games has done for my cynical side.
2. Then we have a whole bunch of people who are complaining about so-called 'missing' features. Usually its prefaced with some sort of whine about how Todd Howard has lied, cheated and deceived the entire world. One example was someone complaining that Pete Hines 'lied' about treasure maps being in the game because they had 'beaten Skyrim' and not found any.
Well, here's the truth of it buddy. If you hadn't blasted through the game in 20 hours, so you could brag to your mates that you had 'beaten' the game, then you might have done a little exploration and - hey - you might have found a treasure map or two. I've barely left Whiterun Hold and I've already found two, in fact I found one before I even got to Riverwood!
I blame the short attention span games with their 4 hour single player story lines that people expect to 'beat' on the day of release before moving onto their next game.
3. The third category is people who have experienced glitches, issues and crashes. Obviously one has to have a certain sympathy with people who have had this. Patches are on their way to begin to address these things, so we'll have to see whether those will improve things.
I know that as a PC player most (not all) of the issues that happen are actually not to do with game itself, but with particular complexities to do with the specific combination of parts that go to make up a PC. And, of course, a lot of it is down to drivers, firewalls, messed up hard drives and a range of other 'issues' that can be fixed with a bit of care, time and common sense. Speaking purely personally, I spent a whole morning making sure that my PC was ready for Skyrim. Yes its boring to do all the updates, defrag and other 'housekeeping' - but it has led to a crash-free, glitch free game for me, so it was time well spent...
Is Skyrim 100% perfect? No, of course it isn't. It would be silly to expect that it would have been. That's why I don't mind discussion here about its shortcomings. As I've said many times we are fans of Skyrim here, but not '[censored]'...
But is Skyrim an ambitious, engaging and wonderful achievement? Absolutely it is.
Patches, DLC and Mods will make the game even better than it is now, and it will be interesting to see how things pan out in coming months and years. But right now I'm amazed and a bit stunned by the outpouring of vitriol towards Skyrim on Bethesda forums. Most of it is immature, overstated and, in many cases, just plain wrong...
What is it with some people?
He claims to be a pc player, yet he passes judgement as if he knows what is wrong with the PS3 version!
Pathetic!
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^~LIL B0NE5~^ - Posts: 3449
- Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:38 pm
» Sat May 19, 2012 3:54 pm
Who is this loser??
He claims to be a pc player, yet he passes judgement as if he knows what is wrong with the PS3 version!
Pathetic!
He claims to be a pc player, yet he passes judgement as if he knows what is wrong with the PS3 version!
Pathetic!
I don't know...nevertheless it's an heroic post.....
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hannaH - Posts: 3513
- Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:50 am