You're both mixed up and not really conveying the question well.

I'm assuming that you're asking about skills. Can you upgrade any SKILL or is it just the 6 you choose. Well, you don't choose 6. So that solves that problem, eh? You pick a stone, which makes some go faster, but that's all it does. Perks are freely chosen if you meet the requirements.

oh god. I am massively confused aren't I. I think you answered my question though and added some extra info for my brain to take in and reconfigure into a mess. cheers

I think I understand now.

So, you can only choose to upgrade any of the skills 50 times? is that right?

Except those are exactly the perks I'd want for my light-armored monk character. Complaining that you have to take 2 more perks out of 50, which light armor users would be glad to have, seems quite cynical to me.

I think i'm gonna test things out first with my first play through for about 20 LVL and than start over... thanks for the tree thread tip by the way... i don't spent much time in the spoiler section, but this is save

No. Skills are like older games. They go from your starting value - 100. You level after raising skills a certain number of times, we think 10.

The game is designed so that you level about 50 times on a good playthrough. But you can go beyond that.

Possible error in Smithing Perk Tree. It shows that once you get "Steel Smithing" that you can go straight to "Arcane Blacksmithing" (which yes,does have a skill req of 60) but it still seems like it could be an error. Can anyone double check or confirm.

I think all other perk trees you have to have a couple perks before getting to one that has a skill req of 50 or above.

Why would that be an error?

Uhh, well that's why they're branched off then isn't it? And you only need level 50 to get to to the half fall damage perk for Heavy. And why would you even want that unless you were going for the weightless heavy armor perk? If your "monk" is going to be using light armor, then you just need to wear enough heavy to get it to 30 and get Fists of Steel. In any case, Bethesda was obviously gearing "unarmed" characters towards the heavy armor perk tree, probably to increase that build's survivability. If you have a very different build in mind, you'll just have to work with what is there but it's certainly still possible. Just my take some workarounds, but that sounds like real life to me anyway.

It just seems to me like what you really wanted was a separate skill for unarmed, which would make more sense to me than carring which skill tree the one unarmed perk fell into. In other words, you complaining that the perk(s) that you want for your monk build are in heavy armor when you want your monk in light armor draws a "too bad, so sad" response from me, but if your initial dissapointment was that unarmed isn't it's own skill (which would probably elminate having to chose between heavy and light armor as either would work), then I can understand.

I doubt it, as that would seem to make 2h weapons a bit overpowered, but I don't know for sure. It's not clear that any of the blocking perks will work without a shield.



The wiki hasn't been updated as fast as this list of perks. The 250 number is based on this list and both perks you mentioned are in this Alchemy list.

Well,because if you look at all the other perk trees and then look at the smithing perk tree it stands out.In all the other perk trees you have to choose 2 perks to even get to a perk with a skill requirement of 60.
It does'nt seem right to me,but if it is than fine.I just want to make sure,since I am planning out my character.

I'd want that perk to jump from higher places without taking too much damage.
Taking Fists of Steel with a light-armored character is pointless, because you can either take advantage of Fists of Steel - then you need to wear heavy gauntlets. Or you can take advantage of light armor perks - then you need a full light armor set, including light gauntlets. You can't have both.
And taking less falling damage in heavy armor / dodging better in full armor doesn't sound much like real life to me, by the way.

While that would be ideal, what I actually want are light armor perks that don't try to catch up with heavy armor (meaning, increasing defense), but provide advantages for a unique playstyle.

It is not as bad as one handed and two handed, those trees are virtually identical. Taken by themselves they are decent perk trees, kind of boring but effective. When I look at both of them I wonder why they even bothered to split the skills if the perks were going to be virtually identical. How hard would it have been to come up with different perk trees so they feel more different than they do on their own.

Agreed. But the bright side for weapons is, they have atleast inherently different styles, where you can block with 2h weapons and use magic/shields/another weapon with 1h weapons.

On your first point, well if you find the less damage from falling perk fits your build that's fine, but in my opinion it's probably the most useless perk I've seen (and I persued the entirety of all the spoiled trees). Just about any other perk would have more tangible/beneficial effects on game play. I do see what you mean about not being able to take advanatage of both the heavy gauntlet perk and the light armor perks. It seems you do have to pick one or the other when it comes to that, though I'm sure there are ways, namely enchanting, to increase your unarmed damage with light gauntlets. I do admit there is a disparity there though, and it will probably make a light armor fists character inhernently less effective than a heavy armor one.

Then again, there remains the possibilty that you will punch faster with light gauntlets so that what that perk actually does is give extra damage to heavy gauntlets to make up for the slower attacked speed. And I was only saying that "WORKAROUNDS" are realistic, in that you can't always get what you want in th exact way that you want it, or in the way that makes sense to YOU. I agree, taking less damage from falling in heavy armor is counter-intuative, yet another reason not to bother with that perk

On your last point, I always felt that you have to find ways to create your own unique playstyles within the constraints of what you are given, in any RPG. Having the playstyles handed to you on a silver perk platter doesn't make any sense to me. If you REALLY want to be unique try making a monk that doesn't wear any armor at all. It will be difficult, and perhaps not as powerful as more traditional builds, but that's the price you must pay for going agains the norm/standard, and for not playing a pen&paper RPG where you make the rules.

Yes, unarmored has always been an option for my monk, but I was hoping light armor would provide some interesting perks for that specific "class". I'll try to go with heavy gauntlets / rest no armor, and depending on my survivability, I might forfeit the extra damage from heavy gauntlets and take light armor instead.

True. It is not like there is a built in dodge move that you lose access to in heavy armor, armor doesn't really have a different style in this game. Yeah one is lighter and protects less, but it doesn't effect game play beyond the numbers. At least in the weapon styles there is a difference in game play. It is a pity that they went with making things more the same instead of different. But I guess that is what happens when most of your perks are your X basic effect is 25% more effective.

Im pretty sure you can. The damage is probably less than with a shield though. I'm sure you can at least do a regular bash without a shield, it would be strange if you couldn't upgrade the bash. Also, in the Block perk tree, all the perks on the left are specifically about shields while the perks on the right do not reference shields.

That sounds awesome. And I don't know if you also intended to not use magic, or only certain shcools with your build, but don't forget about the shield spell. If it's like oblivion, it doens't really work if you're already wearing armor so that would be perfect for you

There are some spells called like stone flesh or oak flesh, that sounds positively martial arty to me. Add in the alteration perks that only work while unarmored and maybe some enchanted gloves for HtH damage and maybe a spell to increase your skill(channel your chi) and people might be able to make it a go. Still would have been better with a hth skill, but that is not what this thread is about.

That's a good point. Daedric weapons do tend to be better than glass weapons in previous games.

On the other hand, the best weapons tend to be artifacts. Improving those by double all depends on what material they're made out of (if the game even specifies). Though there aren't TOO many elven or glass artifact weapon running around (least in my memory).

This is pretty sweet, got a week to figure out what the hell to pick.

Are you sure these are correct? I just checked the Quakcon video and Block has Riposte (between elemental prot. and deflect arrows) and it's not in your perk list.

Perk mods - these are some ideas to assist the unarmored duelist character.

Block: Disarm- 10% chance of disarming an opponent when blocking with a weapon (requires 50 block and 50 one handed).
Sneak: Sidestep: 10% less damage if you are wearing no armor (3 levels - requires 10/20/30 sneak).
Sneak: Artful Dodger: 10% chance that you will not be hit at all. (2 levels - requires all 3 previous unarmored perks + 50/70 sneak).

A riposte would be a huge perk for my favorite char - damage bonus after blocking (with weapon?) one would assume.

Light armor needs a few things..

1. for the perks to be active "while unarmored or wearing light armor" except the set one ofc

2. a perk for h2h: increases speed of h2h attacks while unarmored or wearing light armor
- might be impossible with the engine..

3. If the stamina regen perk only gives you natural (no armor) regen then it needs to replace the starting perk with added speed 5/10/15/20/25%..
Else the robe (50+ magicka regen, natural stamina regen) plus alteration (double rating if no armor shield spell rank 1/3) will kill it..