Okay. Then why not execute them and be done with it if he's really as openly racist as common Imperial players claim? The Empire surely doesn't shy from mass executions.


Opinion, conjecture, etc, etc.




So why not kill them?

Well for one all the people being executed were stormcloaks which are considered traitors and two no one really cared besides stormcloak supporters which number few outside of the few stormcloak holds.

dont like bretons the reasons vary game to game in morrowind it was because they sounded dreadful in oblivion they looked like toads and in skyrim most bretons are either forsworn or uninteresting characters whose only purpose seems to be showing new players the forsworn arnt all that bretons are.

Then that's publicly acknowledging the rest of Skyrim that he's racist. He still needs the other races, they won't admit it but they do. So a public execution wouldn't bode over to well probably gaining more support for the Empire.

What? Windhelm is the seat of his power. He could easily round up all the dunmer and execute them - especially because there are only two exits to the city and one only goes to a near-frozen water front.



I can think of two: the old couple in Dawnstar (and they're Nords!). Would you mind getting imperial library links for the other supposed veterans?


Fight back... how? Your entire argument is that the Dunmer are so repressed that they have basically nothing.



This seems like a lot of conjecture considering we don't see any racism from Ulfric Stormcloak, save against Ellenwen or whatever the Aldmeri ambassador's name is, and the Thalmor.

Your question was conjecture. I was merely pointing out logic. We may not see Ulfric personally be racist but he sure surrounds himself with them, add in to the fact his own people say he doesn't care about the other races, and the Dunmer and Argonians allowed to be harassed shows he doesn't care.

the comment to which I posted was also conjecture. Thus "This seems like a lot of conjecture."

They have tools which can be considered weapons, not to mention the argonians would most likely assist the dunmer since they know they would be next in the massacre of the stormcloaks, also nowhere did I say that the dunmer are so repressed that they have basically nothing, also stop saying "cite your arguments" when YOU HAVE NOT CITED ANYTHING

I think your just being a tad think headed, perhaps you are a son of Skyrim .

the argonians are more likely to help the Dunmer who'd enslaved them for how many thousand years? You're guessing at what they'd do.

Farm tools are nothing against swords, hammers, and armor. If farmers could stand against armies, then I imagine the slavers in Morrowind would've repelled Helseth. Let's not forget that only one Dunmer family farms.

Like this guy said. Just becasue the game does not straight out say "Hey, just alittle trivia: Ulfric is a bigot" dosn't mean he isn't. It's like if a guy and a girl slept in the same bed, and then nine months later a baby was born by that girl. I'm not saying they did anything, but others are, and the baby looks alot like the guy. Somethings arn't spoken, but you know it's true..

Theres a saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" the argonians would obviously see that they would be next in Ulfric's genocide and help the Dunmer, as you said a lot. Opinions and conjecture, thats pretty much all your arguments have been.


French revolution, the revolution in which Switzerland fought off the french and became an independent country, villages that would rebel against the Nazis, and I have plenty more examples of where common folk outmatched the soldiers who had swords and armor and no, tons of Dunmer families still farm, have you not seen the farms in riften? Plus there are still farms in Morrowind.

Firstly really long time ago, secondly if the Nords at Windhelm are slaughtering a whole race of people in their city that isn't Nord why would the Argonians side with them? That just doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Again it would seem Helseth fought for the majority of the Dunmer population why your bring that up however makes no sense, the Morrowind of old is no longer. That's hundreds of years ago.

Genocide? What race has Ulfric wiped out exactly?

Okay. There are two or three Dunmer farms. I thought we were discussing Windhelm. As for Dunmer farmers invading from Morrowind, well Nords attacked Morrowind left and right. There's a reason that the Dunmer didn't strike back when they were at their fullest.


Again, the Nords outnumber both the Argonians and Dunmer. So even if they bound together it'd be a quick battle and the Nords would have new leather boots and elf-ear necklaces (if they really were so racist.)

"It would seem."


I've screenshotted just about everything Ulfric says in game save for at the end of the Imperial quest line, but I'll get that in the next couple days. I'll link the pages that have his quotes. If you can find something racist, feel free to post it.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Levowitz/screenshots/?p=3&filter=app_72850
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Levowitz/screenshots/?p=5&filter=app_72850

Not all tools are farm tools, plus theres this whole shop just down the street that sells pretty much everything including weapons, I'm pretty sure he would give the dunmer equipment.




> leather boots...

Pretty sure the argonians have scales as for the outnumbering yea you may be right there but you may also still be wrong, plus a lot of nords would turn away from the genocide and theres still a large amount of Dunmer in riften that would raise up arms against the stormcloak supporters and then you have winterhold which is nothing but other races and mages who would push the stormcloaks out of it. Pretty much if Ulfric attempted to kill or push the dunmers out of windhelm it would mean that his entire lil army is completely screwed.

As for the screenshots...you know this just further proves that Ulfric shows signs of being a tyrant at the end right?

I never said they'd wipe out the Nords there, but they aren't gonna sit and watch as they are killed either. Ulfric killing them would just be publicity suicide. Across Skyrim and possibly Tamriel he'd be known as a racist for slaughtering the other races in his city. Giving ample reason for the other races to hate him and not support his cause and in fact be inclined to help the Empire.

It's what it is. Helseth was a man who wanted to stay on top and would do what he had to to stay in power he chose what the majority of the people wanted so he could continue to hold that power.

Like I said Ulfric doesn't need to say anything it is heavily implied that he is in part a racist.

You're still guessing at what they'd think or do. The fact is that the Dunmer are a broken people. Their mountain exploded and a great many died. The fact is there are more nords than dunmer and Argonians in Skyrim. Bar none. It can't be argued.



Publicity suicide? He could just say that the Dunmer were rising against him, and with that book that the one Dunmer allegedly wrote, who would deny it? Beyond the fact he's already called racist everywhere so I don't think it'd hurt his image anymore than it already is.

You know it's heavily implied that Sheogorath is the Champion of Cyrodiil. Forum goers deny it because it's never said in a paragraph in a book.

The difference? Sheogorath implies it himself. Ulfric never gives insomuch as a hint of racism.

There are more Legionaries and legion supporting nords then there are stormcloaks, still everything you're saying is opinions and conjecture. cite your argument.

Also I checked the screenshots, you left a loooooooooooot out. I remember Ulfric having more dialogue then you show screenshots for thus your claim is further null.

The same can be applied to what you just said if you mean Legionaires in Skyrim. If you mean in the entire world, you're probably right.

As for counting the dunmer, are you really asking me to do that? Are you trolling or just so hard headed you refuse even the most blatant truths? I can go to every city in Skyrim and find bare minimum three nords. The same can't be said of Dunmer.

I never said there were more dunmers in skyrim then nords, you are once again putting words in my mouth, I did however say there are more nords that are tolerant of the Dunmer in skyrim.

Kind of hard to do if he murders the other races to, and yes the Dunmer that is not even in Windhelm started this uprising did he? Yeah he's called racist but mass of bodies would prove it.

Most forum goers are incredibly think headed and set in their ways, doesn't mean that it isn't true. It's also not what he does it's what he doesn't do.

Again that book was more likely stormcloak propagands used to cause hatred among the two races, the author isn't even in the game.

I agree with that. You're the one who's been saying the Stormcloaks are racist. The only suggestion of it is that they hate the Thalmor and they're angry because the Dunmer just squat in Windhelm and don't contribute to the war effort.

Why is it kind of hard? "Well, the Dunmer and the Snake skins were allies and wanted to take the city..."

As for the Dunmer (I can never remember his or her name!) the book doesn't have a date and the dark elves have been in Windhelm for how long? I'm terrible with Elder Scrolls time frames. Either way, it was long before Ulfric's father died. It could be that the Dunmer died. Could be the Dunmer left or was secretly or publicly executed.

Again, the Empire doesn't protect the traders anymore than the Stormcloaks do. I've seen the Khajiit caravans umpteen times and they've never had a non khajiit in their party when traveling.



Prove it.

There have been stormcloaks that group the dunmer in with the Thalmor, and Ulfric just says "Elves" not High or wood, meaning it could possibly mean he is grouping all the elves together.


Prove it was actually made by a Dunmer as for them being nothing but lazy squatters, sorry to say but thats also a lie too. None of the Dunmer in Windhelm show any sign of wanting to take over Windhelm, they just want to live peacefully also you've been using this book as citation yet you never posted a link to said book.

You just said it yourself why would they work together? Especially after the Argonians have been ransacking Morrowind why on Earth would they just randomly wanna help the Dunmer overthrow the Nords?

It doesn't matter cause it really had no place being in your post it's a random book in the game whos NPC isn't even there. Therefore it makes no sense for that excuse to kill them.

Maybe so but they don't protect them equally. Ulfric will go out of his way to help the Nords but any other race he won't lift a finger. That's also because they're Khajit Caravans from Elsweyr there's no reason for them to have any other race, plus the Nords don't even allow them in their city so why would they want them traveling with them anyways?