http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nzN0S9Fvtk

Think of it this way: a fighter uses a weapon skill to deal damage, right? So One-Handed, Two-Handed, or Archery. You'll probably have enough perks to dabble in a second skill, whatever, cool. It's fun to play a warrior and it should be. Now, let's say you're using One-Handed. As your skill goes up--whether or not you put perks into the One-Handed tree--your damage with one-handed weapons increases. So your damage constantly goes up whether or not you get new weapons. Of course, you will get new weapons, because you're not an idiot, and they provide a nice leap in damage output every now and again.

Cool!

A mage uses Destruction to deal damage. The equivalent of getting a new weapon for them is getting a new spell. But here's the problem: spell damage does not increase as the Destruction skill does. At all. Not one point. So eventually, after you've gotten all of the available spells, and you're level 40 or higher, your damage will never increase again. Ever. You can't enchant your gear to give you, say, +20% fire damage from spells. You can't rely on your increasing Destruction skill to increase spell damage. Once you have the best Destruction spells in the game, that's it. That's as good as it'll ever get. But enemies will keep getting stronger, and keep having more health.

I know it's easy to say, "Use all of your spell schools!" And that's right, you should. Just like a warrior should use Block, an Armor skill, and probably Smithing to be the best he can be. But a warrior can still rely on his weapon for damage no matter how high his level gets. Destruction is a mage's weapon, but eventually, it can no longer be relied on to do damage.

This is a problem because, without exploiting Alchemy and Enchanting, spells cost magicka. And yes, power attacks and blocking cost stamina, but you can still do something when your stamina runs out. A warrior with no stamina can still use regular attacks while his stamina regenerates. If a mage has no magicka, he has absolutely no recourse. He can run, or he can die. No amount of Conjuration or Illusion spells will help with that, because they cost magicka, too.

Do the complaints make a little more sense now? All we're asking for--literally the only thing--is for Destruction spell damage to get better as Destruction skill gets better. We don't want to be able to use crappy level 1 spells the whole game, but we do want to be able to use the best Destruction spells to deal decent damage after level 40.

i chime onn because i enjoy one shotting bandits and stun locking dragons with my op destro mage.. .you gusy cry cuz waaaah i wanna one shot things on masters waaaaaaaah... go make a warrior then...

this is all i gotta say... let me see a warrior do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nzN0S9Fvtk

nuff said

I completely agree with the OP.

We also need better magicka regen IN COMBAT.

As the OP already pointed out, melee types can still attack when their stamina runs out, mages cannot attack if our magicka runs out so our magicka should regen faster than stamina does...

I really don't need to test it using the console. My mage has 76 or so in Destruction and the damage of the spells (without taking the perks I mentioned) is the same as when I had 25.

I can't watch that at work, .
I notice that some people love it, and some people hate it.



I have boat loads of potions, and its not hard to make them. You are a mage, plan accordingly.



Are you sure, you can't take a bit of time to test it and see? I guess I will have to do it my self.
If only I could find the poster and the post of the person who tested and noticed the change.

How I explained it made sense to me, the spells level with the skill, but leveling up through other means is what is making it hard on everyone.

i chime onn because i enjoy one shotting bandits and stun locking dragons with my op destro mage.. .you gusy cry cuz waaaah i wanna one shot things on masters waaaaaaaah... go make a warrior then...

this is all i gotta say... let me see a warrior do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nzN0S9Fvtk

nuff said

-Vulnerabilities (many targets have vulnerabilities (undead, vampires atronachs any type of elemental mob)
-ignore armor (not that mobs have that big amounts of armor, but those less comon mobs going around in heavy armor, it matters, those special mobs going around in heavy armor/shields it matters alot)
-aoe (what does more dmg a 100 damage arrow to a target or a 80 damage spell that hits two or more?
-drain stamina (frost spells drain targets of their stamina preventing power attack and potentially fatal attacks at best, high damage taken at worst)
-drain mana (thunder spells drain mana of targets, making casters forced into meleeing you with their daggers rather than zap you to death)
-damage debuff (fire puts a debuff on targets that increases the damage they take, this is particulary awesome if you STOP thinking about using only a one hit nuke, and LEARN that you have to chain spells)
-ranged (a melee attacker does no damage to you if he cant reach you, and you cant do any damage to a ranged attacker if you cant reach him)
-stagger (I mention this perk knowing that melee has this too, but melee cant range aoe stagger being awesome to kite/train mobs into your aoe chains)

You are contradicting yourself firstly, when you stated " spell damage does not increase as the Destruction skill does. At all. Not one point (my emphasis)." But then go on to say that, "So eventually, after you've gotten all of the available spells, and you're level 40 or higher, your damage will never increase again.", which suggests that it does level up. Anyway, it does get more powerful and I just did a test using the console at certain levels to prove it. Your magicka cost goes down considerably when you're at higher levels, but when you unlock the augmented perks (Aug. Flames I did for example), they get more powerful, here's what I found: Using the Adept level Fireball spell, the default setting is 90pts of damage while using 124 Magicka. As I leveled up to 30, my Mag. cost was down to 88, when I got Destruction to level 30 and could unlock the first Aug Flames, the damage went from 90 to 112. When I got Dest. to level 60 to unlock the second tier of the Aug. the damage increased to 135pts.

I guess the argument could be over how long it would take to get it to that level of damage, but it does get more powerful.

You have a faulty premise that "as your level goes up, your damage increases". In this game your damage (relative to the monsters you fight) stays pretty much constant throughout the game. Also... I don't notice much gear that says "adds % damage to melee attacks".

You are contradicting yourself firstly, when you stated " spell damage does not increase as the Destruction skill does. At all. Not one point (my emphasis)." But then go on to say that, "So eventually, after you've gotten all of the available spells, and you're level 40 or higher, your damage will never increase again.", which suggests that it does level up. Anyway, it does get more powerful and I just did a test using the console at certain levels to prove it. Your magicka cost goes down considerably when you're at higher levels, but when you unlock the augmented perks (Aug. Flames I did for example), they get more powerful, here's what I found: Using the Adept level Fireball spell, the default setting is 90pts of damage while using 124 Magicka. As I leveled up to 30, my Mag. cost was down to 88, when I got Destruction to level 30 and could unlock the first Aug Flames, the damage went from 90 to 112. When I got Dest. to level 60 to unlock the second tier of the Aug. the damage increased to 135pts.

I guess the argument could be over how long it would take to get it to that level of damage, but it does get more powerful.

Are you sure, you can't take a bit of time to test it and see? I guess I will have to do it my self.
If only I could find the poster and the post of the person who tested and noticed the change.

How I explained it made sense to me, the spells level with the skill, but leveling up through other means is what is making it hard on everyone.

You are contradicting yourself firstly, when you stated " spell damage does not increase as the Destruction skill does. At all. Not one point (my emphasis)." But then go on to say that, "So eventually, after you've gotten all of the available spells, and you're level 40 or higher, your damage will never increase again.", which suggests that it does level up. Anyway, it does get more powerful and I just did a test using the console at certain levels to prove it. Your magicka cost goes down considerably when you're at higher levels, but when you unlock the augmented perks (Aug. Flames I did for example), they get more powerful, here's what I found: Using the Adept level Fireball spell, the default setting is 90pts of damage while using 124 Magicka. As I leveled up to 30, my Mag. cost was down to 88, when I got Destruction to level 30 and could unlock the first Aug Flames, the damage went from 90 to 112. When I got Dest. to level 60 to unlock the second tier of the Aug. the damage increased to 135pts.

I guess the argument could be over how long it would take to get it to that level of damage, but it does get more powerful.

Not 1 person wants to 1 shoot things learn to read. Destruction dopesnt scale everythign else does, on top of this warriors can use staffs and poisons.............

As for 1 you tube video? LMAo Ok, could be low level, cheating with console...... Sorry you tube = usseless.

No, you've missed the point. All that changes when your Destruction skill rises is the magicka cost of spells. The damage does not.

Take that Fireball spell. At Destruction 50, it does 90 pts of damage, and costs 124 magicka. At Destruction 100, it will only cost X magicka (less than 124) but the damage will still be 90.

Perks have nothing to do with it. Take 2-handed weapons. An Iron greatsword will, at 2-handed 20, do 10 damage (pulling numbers out of thin air to exemplify). But at 2-handed 100, it will do 50 damage.

THAT is the problem with Destruction damage not scaling with level.

If they buff destruction to scale with skill it will be op .

i REALLY REALLY dont understand whats the problem .
Just get some -cost% enchantments and your spells are like free.

And on master difficulty i havent met an opponent that didnt die with more than 10 dual casted thunderbolts while STAGGERED .
Maybe you forget the OP skill dest mages have in STAGGER?

What do potiins have to do with the fact destruction doesn't scale when it should and leveling and a lack of high powred spells ruin the mages?

Yes, I use the 0 mana cost for Destruction school too. And guess what... I don't think is that fun to keep spamming those spells. The mana bar should keep playing a role in later levels too, not completely bypassed.

The % reduced cost should be limited and the damage increased for all the spells, as they have different roles.

If you think that a mage at a higher level should only be spamming 0 cost chain lighnings, we'll have to disagree about what FUN is.

Playing as a pure mage. Level 42. Ripping through Master difficulty.

I don't understand the complaints.

-Vulnerabilities: You need to spend 9 perk points to get full effectiveness for every element. It's not as much vulnerabilities as it is INvulnerability to the other elements.
-Ignore Armor: It's vital to ignore armor if the best spell you will ever cast does 225 damage.
-AoE: Will only kill your summon/companion and again, 225 damage is the most you'll ever do, I've seen every other "class" doing thousands of points of damage with a single hit lategame.
-drain effects: Draining stamina does nothing, most things already kill you in one or two hits without power attacks, drain mana does nothing, high level mages have basically infinite mana, NPC and player, that is.
-damage debuff: Is completely useless, the debuff doesn't stack, and is barely noticeable once you get around level 40
-ranged: So we're supposed to abuse the AI to be able to win now? Most humoids carry bows or use spells when they're out of range, and most creatures are faster than you.
-stagger: This is the only way to kill anything with thousands of points of HP, because again, your best spell does 225 with all the perks.

Thanks, I am at work and unable to test it my self, but I knew I seen where someone had tested it using the console and noted the changes in damage and cost to cast.

So, if what I quoted is true, the damage and cost is scaling with the destruction skill, however leveling too many skills or not taking advantage of the synergy between the schools is what is causing the issue.

A pure mage who only used a few skills should be just fine, however the ones who level up via non combat skills may be the issue.

Destruction scales with the scale, but not with level and that makes sense to me, my warrior had it on easy street until I gained 5+ levels on blacksmith and making potions. At that point the game was going downhill and getting to be a pita.

Incredible.
Magic has been destroyed beyond belief with the removal of spellmaking and still people insist it is just fine.
Honestly, turn this game into mario cart and there would still be people on the defense force saying its the best thing ever.

So many effects just inexplicably gone.
All the customisation, all the versatility all the fun has been bled out of magic.
We are left with a completely underpowered and unscaling -meaning it will get weaker over time- system and still people insist there is nothing wrong.

Well there is something wrong with magic.
TES used to have the best, the most original, the most fun magic system ever devised.
It is what made their name, you know. A large part of what made Arena so popular, what funded Daggerfall, was spellmaking, an incredible and unheard of feat for that time in pc gaming.

Fast forward 17 years and Bethesda releases a game with generic, not magic.
Been done a million times, can be seen in a thousand other games with no discernible difference, and mind you, other games do it better
There really is something wrong when Dragon Age 1 has a more varied, utalitarian and useful magic system than a TES game.

It is unimaginable and unbelievable that people actually defend this disaster.

Why should I test it using console commands? I tested playing the game plain and simple. You have a weird fixation about using console commands

Even in the absurd circumstances that the damage increases with skill using the console... it proves nothing. I play the game in the 'game mode' , not in the 'console mode' ... Don't know if I made myself sufficiently clear

No, you've missed the point. All that changes when your Destruction skill rises is the magicka cost of spells. The damage does not.

Take that Fireball spell. At Destruction 50, it does 90 pts of damage, and costs 124 magicka. At Destruction 100, it will only cost X magicka (less than 124) but the damage will still be 90.

Perks have nothing to do with it. Take 2-handed weapons. An Iron greatsword will, at 2-handed 20, do 10 damage (pulling numbers out of thin air to exemplify). But at 2-handed 100, it will do 50 damage.

THAT is the problem with Destruction damage not scaling with level.

All I care about is having my +200% magicka regen effect work in combat.