[Gill Mackin]

well, i got a wierd probblem. every sound outsoude a dialogic conversation sounds like you are standing in a big hanger and saying something. a bit like resound. really wierd. its even in mods.

[Marta Wolko]

So, that means, only if I place NPCs which "does not update its AI", while I`m in another cell, the game crashes.
But all NPCs that does, are uneffected.
OK, thx

[Eoh]

I have an uconfirmed report that saving all your mods using the new GECK update solves the crashing issue, no confirmation on whether placed things disappear or not though.

I'd try it myself but I have 60+ mods...

[Heather beauchamp]

I have an uconfirmed report that saving all your mods using the new GECK update solves the crashing issue, no confirmation on whether placed things disappear or not though.

I'd try it myself but I have 60+ mods...

Nope, does not work.
Did the same with the Brahmin Mod wich I created to test the Bug. I loaded G.E.C.K. 1.5 and Moved the CRBrahmin, saved, started a completely new game and: crash.
No go :/

[Julia Schwalbe]

Nope, does not work.
Did the same with the Brahmin Mod wich I created to test the Bug. I loaded G.E.C.K. 1.5 and Moved the CRBrahmin, saved, started a completely new game and: crash.
No go :/

Did you re-save all your mods or just the one?

[Heather M]

I have 77 Plugins. I'm really not keen on re-saving all of them and forking my load order.

If someone ascertains that this "Save with v1.5 GECK" thing is true and discovers just what was altered, I'm hoping someone writes a batch program to do the fix.

[Laura Wilson]

Did you re-save all your mods or just the one?

I completely reinstalled my game before patching to 1.5
I m just running my two testplugins. Exactly like Quarn suggested in his OP.
1 Brahmin at Girdershade
1 Static at Vault 101
no other Mods installed.

Edit:
Reinstalled also again and tested both plugins with 1.0 without any Probs
Now Im back on 1.5 and test only my own mods - which are not effected (all Interior)

[Barbequtie]

I got an idea...

ESMs are unaffected, right? And the ESMs are now much more amenable with each other than they ever were in Oblivion.

Why not make a batch converter to convert all ESPs to ESMs? ESM/ESP status is controlled by a bit flag in each module's header, not by the filename extension. Convert all ESPs to quasi-ESMs, leaving their file extension. And for a second function in this converter, it can batch revert all files with ESP extensions back to an ESP should this bug ever be fixed.

[Caroline flitcroft]

So ok currently we have a broken patch and a broken DLC. Is there like only one person drugged up on morphine working at Bethesda's Fallout 3 department these days?

Though to be fair the problems with the DLC are probably Microsoft's fault...

[Oscar Vazquez]

I have an uconfirmed report that saving all your mods using the new GECK update solves the crashing issue, no confirmation on whether placed things disappear or not though.

I'd try it myself but I have 60+ mods...

I can try it, where did you read this?

Now Im back on 1.5 and test only my own mods - which are not effected (all Interior)

If only this were the case though Interior just means - less likely to be effected as badly.

Can anything in your mods come out of the interior cells into the main game? Do you have a door out for instance? Can weapons, items, NPCs, armor come out? Do you have a navmesh edit to the main gameworld?

I got an idea...

ESMs are unaffected, right? And the ESMs are now much more amenable with each other than they ever were in Oblivion.

Why not make a batch converter to convert all ESPs to ESMs? ESM/ESP status is controlled by a bit flag in each module's header, not by the filename extension. Convert all ESPs to quasi-ESMs, leaving their file extension. And for a second function in this converter, it can batch revert all files with ESP extensions back to an ESP should this bug ever be fixed.

This will cause problems if we put too many masterfiles in one game. There were always isolated reports that sometimes two masterfiles could not edit certain game objects without conflicts, throughout both morrowind and oblivion.

In the oblivion wiki there is a small entry
http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Esp_vs._Esm

When one esm modifies in any way a worldspace cell of another esm, the land bug occurs in gameplay. The land bug is where the local land textures (and often static buildings, etc.) disappear in gameplay. This happens not just in a few isolated spots, but typically everywhere.

[Christine Pane]

I can try it, where did you read this?

I requested people try it over on teseyecandy forums:
TheOutlander:

Could someone who doesn't have very many mods (I have 60+...) try saving them using the updated GECK 1.5, and seeing if magically that fixes the crash on save problem?

and Morphan replied:
Morphan:

well, i opened all the mods i have which is 12, in the new geck then resaved them, i havent had a single save crash or any other crash since

Which is why I said "an unconfirmed report".

[Ilona Neumann]

I can try it, where did you read this?



If only this were the case though Interior just means - less likely to be effected as badly.

Can anything in your mods come out of the interior cells into the main game? Do you have a door out for instance? Can weapons, items, NPCs, armor come out? Do you have a navmesh edit to the main gameworld?

Yep, would be nice if you try it too. (Recently I replaced the Brahmin with a NPC -> no crash, but this has been cleard some posts above)

My mods are definitely not effected because it is a tenpenny suite mod and a radio station. both dosn't walk outside

[Ricky Rayner]

But without crashing is it actually fixed or just not crashing?

[John N]

I requested people try it over on teseyecandy forums:
TheOutlander:


and Morphan replied:
Morphan:

Which is why I said "an unconfirmed report".

Interesting. I am at work. But when I get home, I have a game with only 7 or 8 plgins. We will see.......................

[Crystal Birch]

So me using,
MMM
FOOK
FWE
WMK
FOIP
UFOP
Phalanx...
I will be unaffected?

No... you'll be VERY affected...

So, which mod exactly makes you say that he'll be very affected?

This sort of thing is what I felt was overkill, these kinds of responses with no explanation or guidance, just warning and then End.Of.Sentance, as though 1.5 is a total plague.

Phalanx 0.96 won't crash your game in 1.5 (hasn't for me so far anyway), and I run two mods out of the MMM lineup without problems.

[Kayla Oatney]

I can try it, where did you read this?



If only this were the case though Interior just means - less likely to be effected as badly.

Can anything in your mods come out of the interior cells into the main game? Do you have a door out for instance? Can weapons, items, NPCs, armor come out? Do you have a navmesh edit to the main gameworld?



This will cause problems if we put too many masterfiles in one game. There were always isolated reports that sometimes two masterfiles could not edit certain game objects without conflicts, throughout both morrowind and oblivion.

In the oblivion wiki there is a small entry
http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Esp_vs._Esm

The "Land Bug" is obviously not the case anymore. Operation Anchorage does not exhibit such a "land bug" despite adding not just a doorway to the Wasteland worldspace (That collapsed subway entrance is part of the OA ESM too). There is no ESP component of OA, just an ESM. So I think it's safe to say that the ESM bug is no longer an issue. Considering that this "patch" "Fixed crashes related to altered references between master files", I think that they are even moreso compatible (if this fix actually is true).

If this idea works, there'd be one caveat: You'd REALLY have to watch your load order, as there would effectively be no more "ESMs load first" safety net.

Ultimately, I probably won't be using V1.5 at all considering the other bugs it introduces or doesn't fix. Just tossing the batch ESMifier idea out there...

[Chris Duncan]

But without crashing is it actually fixed or just not crashing?

nope, not fixed.

I took an NPC "Fantasia", one of the girls from Ducanov and created a new Form.
Only deleted the auto-behavior, so that she is not running home or sth like that

And this is what I got: http://1.1.1.3/bmi/www.loaditup.de/files/355967.jpg

No crash (as said in some Posts above), but normally she is an African...


Edit
OK, just to explain:
Made the same as Quarn suggested. No other mods installed. New installation, new game.
Brahmin at Girdershade -> Crash
NPC at Girdershade -> No crash, but this has bee cleared here: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=986090&view=findpost&p=14265379
Both has been saved with GECK 1.5 and it does not solved one of the Problems

[IsAiah AkA figgy]

Quick question...

There are some of you who have reinstalled to test V1.5 bugs and have essentially a completely empty mod load (or easily empty-able load). Could you do a VATS bug check with absolutely no mods installed, on a fresh new game?

I can give you a rundown on how the VATS calculation lag and screwy hit percentages exhibit themselves if you're not familiar with them.

We have a case of complete (or near-complete) absence of VATS calculation lag and screwy hit percentages in the "VATS is Broken" tech support thread, but he plays with absolutely no mods (Why else would you go PC but for mods, considering these bugs? :shrug:). I want to see if this is repeatable somehow.

[Sarah Knight]

This sort of thing is what I felt was overkill, these kinds of responses with no explanation or guidance, just warning and then End.Of.Sentance, as though 1.5 is a total plague.

And the reason I have been responding to your comments myself, is from a modding point of view, I don't think it is possible to have an overkill response to this patch.

A patch that breaks, cripples or hinders thousands of released mods either in part or in a way that will mess up your savegames permanently.

nope, not fixed.

I took an NPC "Fantasia", one of the girls from Ducanov and created a new Form.
Only deleted the auto-behavior, so that she is not running home or sth like that

And this is what I got: http://1.1.1.3/bmi/www.loaditup.de/files/355967.jpg

No crash (as said in some Posts above), but normally she is an African...

Ah I will hold off then, I don't want to go through yet another reinstall if it is not yet fixed, I have just untangled the last one back to 1.4.

The crash imho, will not always happen anyway even without the geck save, it just depends what is indeed missing in each individual case, it is perfectly possible the geck save isn't doing anything.
Often times you will just be missing a chunk of megaton, a quest NPC, a navmesh that makes everyone run around in circles etc.

[Rodney C]

nope, not fixed.

I took an NPC "Fantasia", one of the girls from Ducanov and created a new Form.
Only deleted the auto-behavior, so that she is not running home or sth like that

And this is what I got: http://1.1.1.3/bmi/www.loaditup.de/files/355967.jpg

No crash (as said in some Posts above), but normally she is an African...


Edit
OK, just to explain:
Made the same as Quarn suggested. No other mods installed. New installation, new game.
Brahmin at Girdershade -> Crash
NPC at Girdershade -> No crash, but this has bee cleared here: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=986090&view=findpost&p=14265379
Both has been saved with GECK 1.5 and it does not solved one of the Problems

I'm wondering... ESMify that plugin and see if her skin tone is still borked.

[alyssa ALYSSA]

Quick question...

There are some of you who have reinstalled to test V1.5 bugs and have essentially a completely empty mod load (or easily empty-able load). Could you do a VATS bug check with absolutely no mods installed, on a fresh new game?

I can give you a rundown on how the VATS calculation lag and screwy hit percentages exhibit themselves if you're not familiar with them.

We have a case of complete (or near-complete) absence of VATS calculation lag and screwy hit percentages in the "VATS is Broken" tech support thread, but he plays with absolutely no mods (Why else would you go PC but for mods, considering these bugs? :shrug:). I want to see if this is repeatable somehow.

You're describing how VATS works for me with 1.5.
Here's my load order as FOMM reports it (I do not usually use FOMM though, it was just a convenient way to get the mod list for you).
Very occasionally I might see a hang-up after hitting V and before it's bringing up percentages, and it takes a couple seconds, but most of the time, everything is fast and regular.
And I get weird percentages now and then.

Fallout3.esm
FreePlayAfterMQ_V05.esp
richvendors.esp
Claw - PowerArmorTraining.esp
Foes Reworked v .85.esp
WRWC - Classic Fallout.esp
Greenerworld.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Phalanx-kikaiEvolutionFawkes.esp
Phalanx-PerksAndStims.esp
Phalanx-MoiraSupplySupport.esp
Fellout-Full.esp
Phalanx-Obedient-Dogmeat.esp
Phalanx-DogmeatEnemyTweaks.esp
Phalanx-MainFollowerModule.esp

Total active plugins: 17
Total plugins: 65

[Sammygirl500]

I have an uconfirmed report that saving all your mods using the new GECK update solves the crashing issue, no confirmation on whether placed things disappear or not though.

I'd try it myself but I have 60+ mods...

No! I have tested this posiblity extensive! I tested it with clean (mod and DLC free) game saves and also with a new started game. The esp issues of Patch 1.5 are not solved with resaving with Geck 1.5. I did the Brahmin test and a nonpersistant furniture test yesterday.

Today i checked my own mods. My Camping Gear has no problem, because they are all persistant, scrippted objects.

The stage of my unpublished quest mod FNN however suffers heavy from the v1.5 phenomena.

The main scripting (the token managment for the slaves) works flawless in the moment, as esp and as esm. Contrary to my expectations.

The new and changed locations are making the known troubles (recalled original objects, nonpersistant work sometimes sometimes nor and so on).

[Amelia Pritchard]

You're describing how VATS works for me with 1.5.
Here's my load order as FOMM reports it (I do not usually use FOMM though, it was just a convenient way to get the mod list for you).
Very occasionally I might see a hang-up after hitting V and before it's bringing up percentages, and it takes a couple seconds, but most of the time, everything is fast and regular.
And I get weird percentages now and then.

Fallout3.esm
FreePlayAfterMQ_V05.esp
richvendors.esp
Claw - PowerArmorTraining.esp
Foes Reworked v .85.esp
WRWC - Classic Fallout.esp
Greenerworld.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
Phalanx-kikaiEvolutionFawkes.esp
Phalanx-PerksAndStims.esp
Phalanx-MoiraSupplySupport.esp
Fellout-Full.esp
Phalanx-Obedient-Dogmeat.esp
Phalanx-DogmeatEnemyTweaks.esp
Phalanx-MainFollowerModule.esp

Total active plugins: 17
Total plugins: 65

Hmmm... A fairly light mod load also exhibits no VATS bug.

Maybe some master override in an ESP is causing it? Just hypothesizing. Gonna start a new game mod-free and see...

[helen buchan]

And the reason I have been responding to your comments myself, is from a modding point of view, I don't think it is possible to have an overkill response to this patch.

A patch that breaks, cripples or hinders thousands of released mods either in part or in a way that will mess up your savegames permanently.

It's one thing to be annoyed at something that someone (bethesda) decided to do. It's another thing to tell some third party "Hey don't do this, it will positively mess up your game!" when, in fact, it may not.

I just posted my working mod list. Someone who runs that set of mods will happen to have minimal problems (white skin on my add-on followers, but no crashing). It's not fair to tell everyone under the sun not to touch the 1.5 patch because of a specific danger to their game when that danger is actually specific to which mods they run.

[REVLUTIN]

It's one thing to be annoyed at something that someone (bethesda) decided to do. It's another thing to tell some third party "Hey don't do this, it will positively mess up your game!" when, in fact, it may not.

I think you misunderstand my purpose, they run their company as they wish and on the whole are very supportive of modders, it is difficult to be angry when you take that into account. My comments are made to seek solutions which involved minimal disruptions, to the thousands of mods already out there and to point out that this patch is indeed a big deal to modders.

From my own experience testing mods with 1.5, I believe he was being prudent, when he made the comment which you have quoted. How can you, in the face of all these possible bugs and from such brief experimentation, conclude all those massive mods will have no further issues? I am sure you realise how many references we are dealing with.

At this stage the claim you are making seems even less likely than the one he is making but I will concede that they are both based on conjecture.

It's not fair to tell everyone under the sun not to touch the 1.5 patch because of a specific danger to their game when that danger is actually specific to which mods they run.

If you are running mods, common sense dictates not to use the patch if there is any workable alternative. Why put up with all these problems for minimal gain?