in the latest podcast, one of the beth developers was speaking about the navmesh bug and used the word "fixed", (emphasis on past tense).

Though that doesn't mean that it's included in this version of the CK; could also just be a hotfix to keep compatibility between game and CK.
But yes, he said it's fixed on their part.

I didn't imply that, just that the CK AFAIK doesn't create ONAM lists when ESM'ifying.*knock on wood* Hopefully a plain ol' ESP will now cut it w/o an ONAM list. I'd Imagine Beth's NAVM update would be geared toward ESP files given the new CK doesn't seem to have an option to save as ESM ...

oh bloody hell I just my head around switching my files to .esm and then updating an .esp to partner it and now this

Well, progress at least.

* Fast travel to Riften Stables.
* Walk through town plaza, note everyone in correct spots.
* Leave through north gate, walk to nearby fort several cells away.
* Walk back to Riften.

This would have resulted in everyone standing around on the balconies. They were not. They are in fact navigating their proper routes.

Next test was to then fast travel to Whiterun Stables. Walk into town, all the way up to Dragonsreach, then back down to the stables. Out to the watchtower where you kill the first dragon. Back to the city, all the way back up to Dragonsreach.

Result is usually a gathering of NPCs on top of the guard shack and some scattered around the walls. Nope. They're all navigating as expected.

On the surface, it appears fixed with a plain old ESP.

Now, the problem I'm still having may be due to Open Cities. If after doing the Whiterun check I attempt to fast travel BACK into Riften on the same game session, it crashes. Alternately, if I attempt to go inside Dragonsreach, go down through the dungeon, and then back outside via the guard shack (using the prison cell breakout), crash. These scenarios were NOT happening before, but I can't determine if they're due to Open Cities Skyrim or not.

The version of OCS I'm testing with still can't approach Windhelm on foot, so I don't know WTF happened there. It looks like at least some work is going to need to be excised from the file and redone. Windhelm probably got hosed when I used navmesh optimization there.

Bottom line, it's far better off than it was. It needs to be checked with mods that aren't trying to do what I'm doing. Villages, house mods, etc. In order to check them, you MUST refinalize ALL of your navmeshes that you've either edited or added. If you don't, the data is still hosed in your .esp file.

after re-finalizing all my cells navmeshes, i spent the last half hour trying to cause navmesh bug and was unsuccessful. it usually takes me 30 seconds to cause the navmesh bug.

i think it might be fixed for the most part. although i noticed now i get a CTD every time i try to fast travel to my map marker (which never happened before). but the fast travel works on first save game load, but CTD for subsequent fast travel after load.


CTD does not happen on the esm version.

Ok, well, that mirrors my own findings then. First fast travel to a marker works. Second attempt blows up in my face, but walking in creates no issues.

Seems tied somehow to loading screens. If I go inside a building that has only exits to Tamriel, it seems fine so far. Go inside one that has exits to other interiors though, and that becomes a problem if I travel through the second interior before trying to go back outside.

ugh, i duno what to do right now.

i so want to narrow my mod into just one esp, rather than esm/esp combo. i dont know if i should just upload the combo, or if i should wait for a functional esp (ive already been waiting since early feb and natives are getting restless)

Looks like I might have been right about the possibility of the next CK patch at least partially fixing the issue. Now, I wonder if they fixed that annoying face export bug yet? Someone will have to go in and find out.

the grey face bug is caused by face mods installed while the CK is active.

i don't want bethesda to fix something that technically isnt broken. who knows what new errors will come up because of it.

if you want to export face data properly, just temporarily relocate all your face mod data while working on NPCs in the CK.

hmm well now I can't even test my mod because I get insta CK crash whenever I try to open any external cell

I can open internals fine. didn't have any trouble earlier today, so difinately something to do with this update.

grrrrrrr

Looks fixed to me , just ran a test... 2 cells away and no bug

Uh, I'm having issues with the face data not properly exporting, and I'm definitely not using any face mods. I've gotten things like scars to show up, but none of the face paint data shows up on created NPCs, and the tone of the face appears to remain at the default setting regardless of the changes you make for skin tone. This is a well-known issue that is being addressed. Yes, there is a way to walk around it, but is overly complicated, and not exactly ideal when working on mods that involve adding numerous NPCs to the game world, at least IMO. Now, there could be an issue with face data when you have face mods installed while the CK is running, that would not really be an issue needing a fix. But there shouldn't be issues like this when there are no other mods installed that directly affect the way face data is supposed to work. I was actually going to check and see if the issue has been fixed yet, or if it's coming in the next month or so.

Edit: Nope, the face export bug is still there.

Not quite. Check back a page. Post #30. It's almost fixed.

ok, i never knew that. i never had the problem you describe, all of my face data exports normally with no issues, although i don't have a whole lot of NPC's and nothing too crazy (i do notice though that sometimes the interpolation setting doesnt export correctly on lip colors but that is fixed very easily in photoshop, and post-correction in PS is already part of my standard workflow regardless of export error).

Thanks for the update guys. So, at least we know they're on to something with the NM bug and are working on it. Guess I'll have to update my mods, re-finalize my navmesh?

Yep, refinalize all your navmeshes with CK 1.5 and you should be mostly good to go aside from the CTD you'll likely get if you try and fast travel back to your area.

Does it crash if you fast travel to the Riften stables with Open Cities Skyrim? While you wait for a more robust fix (may be waiting a while), couldn't you just disable city locations for fast travel and force people to fast travel to the stables of a city that's affected by this crash? With Open Cities Skyrim, it's not like they have to sit through an extra loading screen to go from the stables to the city interior.

Nope. Makes no difference. Anything landing you in close proximity to the city when fast traveling back after leaving crashes it.

Sounds the like the best they could do. Any further fixes to it could lead to something else acting in the way the bug did(notice how the fast travel CTD happens when returning..just as the bug appeared when you returned..).

OK, so please let me be sure I’ve got this right. The NPC’s work correctly in that they stay on their packages like they should. But now, if you go away from the exterior that you added or modified the navmesh, then fast travel back to that cell a little later, you get insta-crash? Does that sum it up?

If so, I guess the question becomes which is worse, crashing on fast travel or NPC’s stopping their packages and doing weird stuff. Will the flagged esm fix it? This is most discouraging. But I said in the beginning I’d be shocked if it is fixed. Frankly I don’t think they CAN fix it since it’s been an ongoing issue in one form or another since Fallout 3, but I’m still hoping. If the esm flag won’t work, this effectively kills my mod (and a LOT of others I'm sure) as I’m not going to release something that causes people to crash every time they fast travel to my settlement.

From I've tested, yes that sums it up.

Thanks, that did the trick!

It will, but then no edits to the vanilla material will take.

The devs know about the CTD, so hopefully they'll be able to find the cause and fix it.

So far it only seems to CTD if you attempt to fast travel back to the affected areas after you've been to it once during the game session. Approaching on foot doesn't seem to cause an issue, which so far doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.

Can't I have the latest Open Cities then? I don't use fast travel