I was reading the Navmesh bug thread and it reached the post limit. I wish that the forum mods would allow extensions on that. So here is a new thread to cover major CK bugs

The Navmesh bug, can anyone define exactly what happens? I read pages of that thread and it was not clear. Something about cells not loading when added to the vanilla set? ie mods?

I am concerned I just released a 4 cell project and it is happily being dl by many users and I had planned to add NPCs and encouraged Companion player use...so what is the scoop? i see that Beth promises a fix so i am not too worried just concerned.

Also on a side note, i asked them about the problem of not being able to create new collision for new models and objects..and yesterday they responded to me that this was going to be addresses as well, just wanted to share that.

thanks for info on the Navmesh thing and any other bugs outstanding. I am happy overall with the CK, the navmesh use is the steepest learning curve after the CS but i found using collision boxes and also using this technique to "cut" a hole helped a lot:

Basically to cut a hole you use any existing veritcies or put points on a existing line and use "Create Triangle" to make a new node set and then delete it and you have an active "hole" it helps a lot when having to edit existing mesh..was confirmed by several helpful modders who were experienced in Gekko.

No fix in 1.5 it seems. Giskard posted a video on it here http://youtu.be/RlNBVOcuW3M and here http://youtu.be/S1mmm9gyJEQ

Pretty much when you go two cells away from where YOU made custom navmesh then return to where you made the navmesh, nothing works because the navmesh has mysteriously disappeared.

I wants it to be fixed . No fix yet, but I remain optimistic as always.

holy cow...uh...the mesh disappears completely?

is this true of mesh that is just edited? i did not make the mesh NEW it is game mesh that i edited to create a new player home.

I had not had any problem of this happening yet but i have not gone far from the locatoin yet.

Yes, that's true of edited vanilla navmeshes as well as newly created ones. NPCs in edited navmeshes will simply stop navigating at the borders of where you made your changes.

Further, it seems the 1.5 beta patch has made this issue into a fatal error. All attempts I've made in Open Cities Skyrim to transition from cell to cell results in an instant CTD. You can't even approach the cities anymore from outside on foot. If you fast travel in, you can only walk around the cell you landed on. You can't enter interiors, or leave from interiors to the exterior world. In short, the whole thing is now blown because of something that was changed with this update.

Damn Arthmoor. I dont even know what to say to that.

I've got almost my whole house mod ready except for the Navmesh. Looks like I'm gonna hold off on that until this is fixed.

I'm not too familiar with the nature of Navmesh, but as far as I understand it's only relevant to NPCs, right? Which means that PCs can use the house just fine, just not if they are bringing companions?

I've had my mod work grind to a halt because of this issue. I was happily working away with no knowledge of until it was too late.

What I want to add to the discussion is that I attempted the "switch .esp into .esm fix" and that didn't work.
Is it just as simple open the .esp with TESVsnip and save it as an .esm, put it below skyrim.esm & update.esm in the load order and play?

Because that's what I did and I'm still getting the same NPC spaz outs

Or summoning creatures.

Perhaps you could put a sign outside the front door of your house reading "No Followers Allowed"

Use an esm and then make updates with your esp or just revert the esm back to an esp when working on it.

It's not the worst bug and the master file has been a valid work around since Fallout 3. I've never had an issue with navmeshes in any of my player homes.

There are worse issues with the CK and mods. Save game corruptions from mod load order changes being one of the worst in my opinion. No known fix except to start a new game...not valid for a lot of people.

you'll have to excuse my total noobness but

how? other than being able to use the Ck decently enough, I know piss all about modding in general

Two ways that work:

1. Simply rename your esp file to esm. Example: mod.esp > mod.esm
Then load it up with the CK. Make a minor change to something. Save it. CK may crash, but it will change the necessary flag. Just make sure your navmesh is done.

2. Use TESVSnip. Open the esp file. Select the TES4 branch. Change Flags 1 from 00000000 to 00000001
Then save as esm file
You can change it back to an esp file the same way. This will allow you to make changes to the navmesh and what not if you don't want to go the esp overwriting esm route.

Only thing is you can not upload esm files to steam. Not sure if that's a downside or bonus...depends on how you view the workshop. ;]

You don't have to make any changes during the process. Merely saving will cause the CK to ESM'ify the plugin. It will only crash if you attempt to edit something after saving (when the ESM flag is ticked). Right after saving, you can upload the plugin to the Workshop, but it will be uploaded/downloaded by subscribers as a false-flag esp with its master flag ticked.

Doing the above doesn't, however, guarantee the NavMeshes will work. I suspect Skyrim will soon inherit the Fallouts' ONAM lists for ESM flagged plugins as *they already work but are not producible with any Skyrim specific tools.

*See http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=7502

Learned something new. Thank you for the info. Can you provide more info on the ONAM list? What is it, and what does it do?

Regarding the navmesh, I can only relate personal experience. And setting an esm file on my Deus Mons mod fixed the navmesh AI bug.

ONAM List: It's a subrecord of an ESM flagged plugin's header listing all cell children overrides (ACHR, REFR, NAVM, PGRE, PHZD, etc.)

http://i.imgur.com/XFRca.png

thank you eldiabs

I'll take a look again at trying to sort out my problems.
I'm going to re-do my exterior from scratch, got a better version planned out.

Seeing as re-naming didn't fix my nav-mesh issue. This time I'm going to be extra careful with the exterior.
Making back ups more often and checking with an NPC regularily

The navmesh bug is still one of the worst bugs, though. One issue I've been getting in my Windhelm arena mod is that when I leave the Windhelm Barracks and then come back, everyone who wasn't sitting down or sleeping in bed will all end up crammed between two cupboards in the training area I added, and one time the NPCs I added actually disappeared. Another one of the worst bugs for me is the face data export bug. Yes, both bugs have their workarounds, but those workarounds make these areas of mod development far more difficult and more of a PITA then it should be. Bugs like these are very irritating to modders, much like how there's that save game corruption issue that is a real pain to the users of mods (FYI, this is why modders generally tell you to back up your save game files before installing any new mods).

I kinda wont beth to leave the game alone now.

And in my experience it created the opposite effect: Newly created navmeshes belonging to the mod work perfectly fine. Edited vanilla forms fail to register in any way at all, which leads to navmesh islands, and is somewhat less than useful if you're editing anything in the vanilla game since those changes will not show up at all.

Unless you decide to gamble your mod's stability by using tools intended for use in Fallout of course.

Thank you for the advice folks, it appears I'll be able to get my mod up after all

Wow, yesterday I tackled editing the existing navmesh where I added my little chalet. I know something's wrong, too. I saw an error message about something being inverted, I think, but have no idea what it was or what it means. Also, my chalet is very close to the border with another wilderness cell. I noticed in navmesh editing mode, the meshes of adjoining cells are not connected, but run parallel with big green box tubes around the parallel lines. Somehow I deleted or broke one of those. Sigh. Oh, well, if the worst thing is that followers and wolves can't get to the place, that isn't so bad. I can try to figure that one out. But this whole disappearing thing? Yikes.

The "green tubes" that you "broke" can be fixed and is not caused by the current navamesh bugs....what is required is to make sure the navamesh in one cell is butted flush with the navamesh of the adjoining cell and then the cells are finalized (check mark). If the edges are stubborn, just keep tweaking the edges until they are flush. When the 2 cells are butted flush, the green connection bars will appear showing proper cell connection.

what a mess. i didn't even know this, but i got lucky being that the tamriel part of my house doesnt border on any existing navmeshes

Confirmed as of v1.5.24. http://i.imgur.com/VaIrx.png, so ONAM is officially in. Now to see if the new CK produces them.

Edit: ESM flagged plugins still cannot be "active".
Edit2: A plugin ESM'ified with the new CK does not have a CK added ONAM list, so although ONAM is officially in, we have no way of utilizing them w/o using FO3Edit.

So, basically what you're saying is that the NM bug is still not fixed?

Unknown yet. I'm in the process of refinalizing all of my navmeshes for Open Cities. Talos willing, this should tell us one way or the other since that will force it to write updated navmesh records.