It is not hate, and it is not that no one can grasp the concept. His idea of difficulty is apparently not available in any mod anyone has ever released. People keep recommending mods that do make game play harder, but apparently that's not the right kind of hard... the only way to get that right kind of hard, would be making his own mod,

Yes, you can kill deathclaws with the vanilla varmint rifle, within the mechanics of the game, without mods. It is just very hard to do, and the way you do it, again, within the mechanics of Fallout's gameplay, is obviously not through "combat", as you'd do in an FPS.

To me, it is very simple: you want to be easier to kill and want enemies to be harder to kill? Use a low level gun all the way through, don't use stimpaks, don't use armor. There. Have fun.

I have plenty of self imposed rules, like I don't sneak attack a group more than once, I don't wear power armour, I don't use food to heal, I never steal, I keep to the progression of the story (as in I don't just run straight for the Gobi rifle at the start of a new game) etc. Self imposed rules aren't bad, but they really wreck the immersion. I mean running into a group of NPCs waving my arms around to get them to attack me after I've just shot one of them from [Hidden] achieves the same results as a mod would, but surely you understand why having the NPCs react without me needing to do that would be better? And yeah, sue me for not wanting to spend 50 hours walking through empty desert without fast traveling or playing 100 hours of an RPG with the same weapon.



As I've said before, I really appreciate the effort but what do you want me to do? I specifically said on 3 different occasions that I'm not looking for "hardcoe" adjustments or additional roleplay elements, and then the next post was a list of 5 different "hardcoe" adjustment and roleplay mods. Am I supposed to say "Yes, that's exactly what I'm after!" despite it being exactly what I said I didn't want?

I'm not expecting other people to go and trawl through Nexus for me, I've done that, and I'm not expecting people to make mods to my whim, I'm just asking if anyone is working on, or knows of unreleased mods that might fit the bill, like SirDrinksAlot is.



Yeah, that's what I mean. In my opinion, the only way to get hardcoe to work as a challenging part of the game would be to strip the entire game world of all food, water, stimpaks and beds, and then place them back in one by one in very specific locations and only put back about a 1/10th of what was there before. Turn off the water from the vast majority of sinks, toilets, water fountains etc Remove all edible food from animals (maybe allow it to be eaten after being cooked). Remove any food from merchants but then add in a dialogue option to to places like the Grub and Gulp that would remove hunger and thirst for a price in a similar way to doctors, to stop you from just stockpiling food from merchants. Make food items weigh 10-15 pounds or possibly use NVSE to limit the number of food/drink items you can carry.

Do all that and you might have a system where you actually felt like you were scavanging for food and water rather than just shoveling it into your backpack, but that is a massive amount of work.

For my own personal enjoyment, yes. However since I ported it over, I haven't been sniping enemies yet to really know how well it works. I agree that it was a mainstay in my FO3 load order.

I would NEVER release somebody else's work without permission first. If it's for my own enjoyment, that's one thing, but releasing it is something else entirely.

Imp looks to be living up to his name and http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1138872-wipzrelz-imps-more-complex-needs/ that looks absolutely perverse as far as difficultly goes.

The guy should just rename the mod into

"Real Life, Welcome to the Grind"

with a big red sticker on it saying

"WARNING, hardcoe Professionals ONLY!"
"Casual gamers WILL BE EATEN!"



..or something. :unsure:
:P

It is not hate, and it is not that no one can grasp the concept. His idea of difficulty is apparently not available in any mod anyone has ever released. People keep recommending mods that do make game play harder, but apparently that's not the right kind of hard... the only way to get that right kind of hard, would be making his own mod,

Again, Tedium != Difficulty. All I'm seeing in that is just an insane level of tediousness.

No, they don't, they keep suggesting stuff that just makes the game tedious.

Sweety, before starting a to lash at people with definition of "tedious" and "difficult" you really need to explain what you mean.

Tedious means boring. If you find balancing a complex system of needs boring, that is your opinion but in no way it is an easy thing to do.
Difficult means hard to do. Killing a deathclaw with just a basic weapon like 9mm piston is HARD but boring as well.

Every person finds enjoyment in different aspects of the game, everybody wants those aspects to be difficult because it will result in greater pleasure to overcome them.
If you want something specific done , do NOT use abstract terms like "difficulty" or "Challenge" make a specific list of changes that you would like (Similar to what I wrote few posts above), and clearly somebody would be able to do that or would like to see it done as well.

Did I knock the people who enjoy tedium or the mods that make the game tedious? No, not yet anyway, all I did was state that tedium isn't difficulty. No matter how much people like tedious aspects of games or whatever, it's never going to mean that tediousness, by itself, is difficult. Unless you randomly stab yourself when eating a steak or drown when trying to drink, it's not difficult, period.

I'd really like to have an AI mod like Arwen's or similar that is NOT bundled inside of a larger esp. I just want ai stuff, and then to pick and choose other things as I want. The biggest problem I have with every single "big" mod is that I will never like 100% of the changes. The more changes involved, the greater the liklihood one there being some I don't like. Modular is the way to go, in my eyes. I don't feel offended by my load order having 237 esp's in it. I'd rather have the game as I want it than to have 5 esp's and be stuck with crap I didn't want.

Looks like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.. It is impossible to clean out deadwind cavern with deathclaws + 1 legendary deathclaw with a varmint rifle on very hard. You might be able to kill them in the open space by repeatedly sneak critting and running away, but that's clearly not what a sane person would want out of their gameplay.

Again, Tedium != Difficulty. All I'm seeing in that is just an insane level of tediousness.

This thread seems to be going around in circles a bit, but what the OP seems to be asking for are mods that make the game more challenging without slowing the pace of the game or introducing a bunch of dull repetition. Or tedium, monotony. Just blindly increasing hardcoe needs rates, similar to decreasing the player's damage output, does nothing but force the player to do the same exact thing over and over again, and does nothing to add any depth or interesting content to the game. If you'd actually tried the IMCN hardcoe overhaul instead of guessing, you'd see that it does the opposite - if anything, you eat less, and when you do eat you have to actually give it some thought. There is a considerable amount of depth there if you want to do more than just keep your character alive, and you have to come up with a strategy when deciding what foods you're going to haul around and what you're just going to sell. It's "harder" than the default because it requires more thought, and is less tedious because there is more to it than just the dull repetition of clicking foods until your starvation meter reads 0 again.

The man does not want tedious mods he wants ones that add to the challenge of combat. Why does this forum not understand that having a difficult battle with alot of intense action to test your reflexes and coordination doesn't mean having to micromanage your inventory every battle?

In my opinion, the only way to get hardcoe to work as a challenging part of the game would be to strip the entire game world of all food, water, stimpaks and beds, and then place them back in one by one in very specific locations and only put back about a 1/10th of what was there before. Turn off the water from the vast majority of sinks, toilets, water fountains etc Remove all edible food from animals (maybe allow it to be eaten after being cooked). Remove any food from merchants but then add in a dialogue option to to places like the Grub and Gulp that would remove hunger and thirst for a price in a similar way to doctors, to stop you from just stockpiling food from merchants. Make food items weigh 10-15 pounds or possibly use NVSE to limit the number of food/drink items you can carry.

Do all that and you might have a system where you actually felt like you were scavanging for food and water rather than just shoveling it into your backpack, but that is a massive amount of work.

This thread seems to be going around in circles a bit, but what the OP seems to be asking for are mods that make the game more challenging without slowing the pace of the game or introducing a bunch of dull repetition. Or tedium, monotony. Just blindly increasing hardcoe needs rates, similar to decreasing the player's damage output, does nothing but force the player to do the same exact thing over and over again, and does nothing to add any depth or interesting content to the game. If you'd actually tried the IMCN hardcoe overhaul instead of guessing, you'd see that it does the opposite - if anything, you eat less, and when you do eat you have to actually give it some thought. There is a considerable amount of depth there if you want to do more than just keep your character alive, and you have to come up with a strategy when deciding what foods you're going to haul around and what you're just going to sell. It's "harder" than the default because it requires more thought, and is less tedious because there is more to it than just the dull repetition of clicking foods until your starvation meter reads 0 again.

I appreciate the fact that you are a modder on the game, but listen to what you are saying. You have to put thought into what you are eating in a video game. What you just described is no longer tedium, it's over-thought tedium. Making tedium more complex makes it just that, complex tedium.

IMCN tends to get a lot of endorsemants, but relatively few downloads.

lol, i love the idea of your mod...but im a packrat so i cant stand the thought of having to eat or preserve all my (literally mountains) of food.