It's funny, because I live there.
Thanks for allowing me to put some sense into that brain of yours.

My pleasure
And to try to beat MK to the punch, I actually want attributes to come back. I just want them to be relevant, since I'm not a person who's okay with 80 different options that are all the same(I'm looking at you, Morrowind Crossbows)

Are you getting it? Skyrim's system makes for a different variety of gameplaying....why do you think attributes are so important? Simply b/c your used to them?

*points at post #44*

Your points made Arc, unfortunately my desires to contest attributes aren't at high today if ever. for all intents and purposes Beth succeeded in marginalizing attributes by simply not including them, you get use to it, you stop caring. same for Weapon choices/piece-meal armor/Lore artifacts and all that jazz.

Skyrim's birth omitted alot of things and including them now would do little of anything, like increased jumping height? Jump where? everything is attainable on foot, climbing? would be so horribly buggy you'd need to call the orken man.


I will say this though, calling attributes merely supplements to H/M/S is Bullsh** that was part of their function. if you got your speed drained you'd get whaled on, your strength? might as well be swinging a roll of wet paper towel against your enemies. Endurance? carrying 4 armory's worth of equipment wasn't happening agility? you couldn't take a hit.

these things affected your CHARACTER and how they were able to interact with the world, and provided a TANGIBLE IN-GAME BASE of which your characters could and could not do. Imagination does not do squat in game. and notice I described all of that without talking about +5's or numbers.

any talk about Numbers is a red herring.

attributes would have made armours have prerequisites in strength etc so i would've loved attributes as its stupid how you can weild lightning magic while wearing steel armour...im sure it would fry you too lol

attributes were marginalized in Oblivion, when they stopped being a core piece of the game's mechanics. They just turned into passive boosts to a whole bunch of stuff that you could just add into what they modified and completely forget about. Skyrim already takes a lot of steps in that direction(I'm not okay with a lot of them, but I can see why).

It's the same reason I both like and dislike the removal of all the excess weapons between Morrowind and Oblivion: you ahd tons of choices, but most of them were just asthetic. Why go for Daggers when Tantos are much better at the same job? why use a club when it's nothing but a substandard mace? Why have Medium armor when it's just an uncomfortable smudge between light and heavy, and does nothing but lessen the distinction between the two?
The only reason you have is character development. That's fine for a story, but TES is a game first and foremost. IF you want an option, it should actually do something. Sure, you might take medium armor if you want a blend of the two armor styles, but all that does is add in a middle road that detracts from the other two

And attributes BARELY affected how you interacted with the world after Oblivion. You only notice when your passive boost is suddenly taken away. If you simply add that boost into the base stat it's affecting, you'd achieve the same exact result with a different name. That's not what attributes are supposed to be.

Attributes in Fallout actually affect the game, in a way they don't in TES. I've already explained why, and I'd like to see a system created that can actually make attributes relevant in more than just a "nice little bonus" way.

Revens' post is one example of a way that attributes COULD be relevant if you didn't use the TES system. That's how DA:O does it, which doesn't work in TES either because it's basically just a level cap on equipment you can EASILY bypass with magic. Besides, having attributes you level up three points every level lends itself to a very low-level game compared to Skyrim. On top of that, DA:O has a TINY level-cap set entirely on the number of spells/abilities you can get at one per level. There's no skill system(and certainly not the TES "level it as you use it", which is an oddity in the RPG world), so that kind of attribute system can't work in a game that has a set skill cap. If there was no skill cap, you could potentially use a DA:O style system, at the cost of completely destroying the entire game's leveling system and pacing

And contrary to your opinion, talking about numbers is NOT a red herring because attributes are NOT there just so you can RP. They're in previous TES games because that's how third-person RPGs actually work. IF the attributes stop having numerical importance, they stop having an importance in how you play the game. And in any good video game, options you include should actually have an effect in game. Or are you suddenly okay with the "shallow, pointless marriage system" and lack of writing depth(ie: how much effect you have on the world) I've seen you criticize so often?

totally false. nerdy elves can carry way more books than those cocky nords, waving their fancy battleaxes around... strutting about as if they own skyrim... stupid nords.
OT at least having attribute differences based on race would have been better. warrior races have more health, redguards have more stamina, bretons have slightly more magicka and the list goes on.

And more or less my previous post to this, as well as this agree. Oblivions implementation was not prime, but I'm of the stripes that say.

-Then make it relevant- as far as anyone here is concerned I, you, they, on this very forum are just random Men/Women and yet some of the details have been exceptional in reimplementation of attributes.

the very folks fully aware and intimate with the game they are developing COULD IF THEY WANTED TO, have made something better, but they took the streamlining route and called it a day. if they aren't going to put the effort then whats the point?

You can do that without attributes. Skyrim already does that to a very limited degree with high elves getting a bonus equal to 5 levels of magicka. That's a pretty substantial boost right off the bat.
Just do that to all races, and you'd have the same exact effect without adding in a mostly irrelevant set of attributes

But that's racist!!! D: