Yeah, let's keep this Idea alive... could be a good way for low-level chars to get low-level mercs, and start earning reputation with the Merc faction.... allowing them to someday interact with Saad and the other Merchants. That'd be pretty cool to give some down-trodden ex-soldier three square-meals, some ale... a little petty-cash... And he'll follow you around and watch your back.

Yeah, I would like that. Anything really, from keeping the iron/steel level range character from hiring 5 mercs with crazy free gear. I completely understand the logic people present when they respond to a balance request with "well you can always just cheat if you want to" but there's always been a huge immersion difference between actively 'cheating' and actively avoiding unbalanced features. To each their own and all that good mess though.

Edit:

As for the merc guild idea... a few basic ideas would be:
A quest to gain access to the mercenary captain. (i.e. personal favor for Saad or something)
Quests to unlock higher tier mercs within level reason. (i.e. go save the imprisoned mercs in the bandit fort)
Quests to reduce merc cost and/or gain a free merc. (i.e. frequent buyer, low merc death rates)
Quests to improve the available merc gear in the merc gear pool. Perhaps if you couldn't interact with merc gear (i.e. there is a Y caravan carrying X supplies at Z location, ambush and distribute)
Option to pay Saad large sums of money to improve certain aspects of the mercs ala purchasing things for your house. (i.e. 2000 gold to sharpen all merc melee weapons, 4000 gold to reinforce all merc armor, 3000 to improve bows, 2000 to supply all mercs with 1 health potion etc)

The Orcs could be near an Orc Stronghold (later maybe on their own Stronghold) and offer only heavy armored mercs with two handed weapons.
The Argonians could be high priced light/heavy armored lads found somewhere around Solitude.


Haven't get in that line of thought yet, totally accurate, there's really a big difference. So limiting the number of mercs can be a good idea.


Great ideas.
Quests to improve the guilds influence (i.e. talk the Jarl of the city into selling a property to the guild)

Nice... a guild house. I think people will eat up the luxury cosmetic purchases because higher level characters love to spend gold on exciting new things.

I just bullied my way through Whiterun for the bazillionth time with the mercs and walked up into the inn like a boss. I downloaded the mod that gives your companion the option to relax (We're going to be here awhile) and interact with the environment. It would be cool if the mercs had this option as well.. so we could really act like we own the place.

Yes.. I think this idea has come up as well. They could wander off during down-time and go visit shops spend the money we've been paying them. Maybe get drunk in a bar for a bit.



Yeah.. I like that too.

Ok, I'll try to put some order in our thoughts again, but now with something that can be upgraded during the time. I'll be doing this like a "will be like that" guide, but of course I don't mean to be that bold, we'll all talk about it and change things. Just doing in this model to really look like a guide, think it'll be helpful for our fellow modder. If you have an idea, simply copy everything and add it. I think it'll be better to do it after we discuss the idea, so it won't be a spam of GUIDE in all pages. Let's try adding things when they're consistent (like adding 5 quest ideas instead of one at the time, so the forum won't look messed up). This is only for illustration of what I'm talking about and to give it a try in some stuff:

BRAINSTORM GUIDE
- Quests:
A quest to gain access to the mercenary captain. (i.e. personal favor for Saad or something)
Quests to unlock higher tier mercs within level reason. (i.e. go save the imprisoned mercs in the bandit fort)
Quests to reduce merc cost and/or gain a free merc. (i.e. frequent buyer, low merc death rates)
Quests to improve the available merc gear in the merc gear pool. Perhaps if you couldn't interact with merc gear (i.e. there is a Y caravan carrying X supplies at Z location, ambush and distribute)
Option to pay Saad large sums of money to improve certain aspects of the mercs ala purchasing things for your house. (i.e. 2000 gold to sharpen all merc melee weapons, 4000 gold to reinforce all merc armor, 3000 to improve bows, 2000 to supply all mercs with 1 health potion etc)
Quests to improve the guilds influence (i.e. talk the Jarl of the city into selling a property to the guild)


- Gameplay:
Loyalty System - "Choose your battles, not your soldiers"
Some mercs are simply not as loyal to you as you would like when you contract them. Most of them are just interested in your money and don't really care about your life.
The Loyalty system could work like that: there's a % when you hire a merc that will determine how loyal he is. It will depend on his price, your level, your influence with the guild, your class and his class, the conversations you have with him and so on, plus a % randomness that will always exist (what I mean is: it can never be 100% chance of being loyal, not in his first contact with you).
If you hire someone who isn't loyal to you, you might wake up with some missing items (check your inventory constantly, you never know), be attacked during a fight (your "friend" may use the fact that you're with low health against you), be abandoned during a difficult fight and many other types of ambush.

Trust of the guild in you:
This will determine how many mercs you can have with you at the same time and their loyalty, as well as your influence with the captain of the guild and other important fellas, all of them offering new quests and special treatment depending on their trust in you.
In the beginning you can have two mercs in a "hire for the job" contract and one merc for a normal contract. Why? Simple. How can the Guild trust you'll pay their merc? They don't know if you'll just make him walk for days and days to arrive in some distant place and kill him to loot his body. They can't afford the risk of losing many mercs in an ambush, so you'll have to hire just one.
If you stay with him for 10 days, you'll be able to hire one more (for normal and hire for the job contracts). When you come to the seller (Saad, for example) and ask him for another, you'll have to start making quests for them. The first one can be simple, then you have 3 mercs to normal contract and 5 to hire for the job contract. The others will be difficult and will add more hires at your disposal only with time, much time (and by time I really mean game time, like more days with the mercs, they being payed and etc).

Types of Contracts:
- Hire for the job
You can contract a mercenary for X days, paying him only at the end of the job. The price will be determined according to the number of days, type of merc and risk of the job, that can be:
Low Risk - 0% of the price of the merc, but his health can only drop 'til 70%, or he'll left you (I wasn't hired for that sh**).
Certain Risk - 10% of the price of the merc, his health can drop only 'til 50%.
Calculated Risk - 25% of the price of the merc, health can drop 'til 30%.
High Risk - 40% of the price of the merc, health drop 'til 25%.
Deadly Risk - 60% the price of the merc, but he'll fight to death if it's necessary (and if he's loyal enough).

- Normal Contract
You pay the price of the merc and his daily wage. His skills depending of the price, as it's now.
450g to hire - 20g per day to keep it.
900g to hire - 30g per day to keep it.
1350g to hire - 40g per day to keep it.
1800g to hire - 50g per day to keep it.






It ends the kind of guide I was thinking of. Help me make more sessions and change some things that can be not that good.
This can give for you a perspective of the whole thing too, how it'll be all chained up (may disencourage you, Rmbackslash, but I hope exactly the opposite happens).

In the hire for the job thing I didn't make myself much clear: the % I'm talking about will be added to the original price.

Having the original hire charge be lower with a daily wage on top would be great. I'd like to see them ask for their wages say every three days, then the player could choose to pay or dismiss each one. This way if the player had no cash it wouldn't be a problem. Paying a ton of cash is fine once the player has gained a few levels and found plenty of loot but is a real misery in the early stages of the game, and lets face it, that's when you really need merc backup. Not sure how hard this is to script as I'm not au fait with the Skyrim GECK.

That's why we're thinking about the beggar merc. These ones are not connected with the guild, and you pay them with low cash and booze.
Paying after three days could be good in terms of a screen appearing everyday asking if you want to pay or dismiss your merc. This would turn the screen less annoying, since would be only three in three days. So you would pay like 150g for three days, and again after three more days, and so on. Liked the idea, but I think that would be even better if you get to choose that. Like "I want to pay him daily"/"I want to pay every three days". Cause sometimes you'll want him for one more day, not three. So choosing which one is better for you is a good option.
Lowering the hire charge I don't think it's a good idea. I already don't know where to spend money and I'm only 21 with my new char. Rising the daily wage from what I proposed is valid. Like I said in the beginning, I think that they need to be expensive. It'll give more challenge and more sense of conquering something when you get a lot of money. Right now having money doesn't make any difference for me.

(Guys, sorry if my English is not so well since the beginning of the post. As you all may have noticed, this is not my native language).

Hah, I only assumed that because your location is Brasil, but based on your text you write more fluently than most Americans my age and I would have never guessed.

Edit:

Some personal feelings about the mercs:

They should be lootable to an exent but they seem to pay for themselves with their own gear that you can simply take from them or loot their corpse. It would be cool if they looted each other.

I only really like them when they look like the ones in the picture with fur armor and random steel pieces lol.

Agreed.. raising the price should balance out the loot issue better. Looting each other may occur already to some degree. The always surprise me with what they will do that i didn't program. Stuff built in to the default AI's where the will loot stuff occasionally. Rangers pick up arrows which is cool, but I didn't tell them to do that.

Sorry if this is outside your mods scope but are you planning on changing the behavior of mercs/followers? It bothers me that all followers behave basically like a warrior. Even the mage followers will eauip armor and attack baddies with sword and board. Would be nice if the different classes of followers behaved like you imagine they should. Aka, warriors charge in, mages hang back shooting fireballs, and assassins/rouges sneak attack/ backattack enemies.

EDIT: also why do assassin followers get out of sneak to attack when you tell them to attack a certain enemy? Its a bit [censored].

UPDATE 03/13/2012
------!!! Major Updates !!!!------

Thanks everyone for keeping the creativity flowing, and helping me organize the workflow. Thanks to you some great changes have been added to the mod, much of which stemmed from your ideas and your willingness to participate in this forum. Here are the most recent changes (quite a few)

1. Prices have increased slightly and the mercs now require daily payment.

Here's how it works:

---Daily wage is displayed in their "stats" window (talk> "show me your stats")

---Your total daily wages for the group (paid out) will be displayed in your Group Commands Menu

---Every day at 6am (if not in combat) you are prompted with a window with payment options. The options are "Pay all", "Reorganize" or "Dismiss All"

------"Reorganize" will allow you to fire a few mercs, then prompt you with the payment window again, with the new daily cost

------"Dismiss All" This will disband the group, reducing your daily cost to zero

2. You can also disband the group at any time by talking to any one of the hired mercs, under the dismiss option.

3. Mercenaries that have left the group (ended contract) can be rehired at their daily rate if you talk to them again. Meanwhile, they will "Hang Out" back in their hometown (where you first hired them)

4. The group dismiss option is the same as the "Stay close by" dialogue option. They will now "hang out" in the general area that you gave the command. They will still respond to group commands, and will still be on the payroll.

5. "Hanging Out": The mercs will now interact with furniture and objects, (relaxing doing work, eating, having a beer etc.) whenever they are not being commanded.

6. Battle-Vision: Uncontracted Mercs will show up in a different color (white or light blue). This will help you locate mercs that worked for you once, but are now "hanging-out" in their hometown unemployed.

Bug Fixes;

Fixed Fast travel issue. Should no longer need to "wait" after fast travel for the whole group to show up.

Attempted fix for Aggro between mercs and followers. (Someone will have to let me know if it's not working)


Ok.. Have At it!!! I hope you enjoy the changes, and I look forward to your responses.

Hell yes.

One thing... do they still attack the [censored] out of you if you accidentally hit them during combat? Weird thing is... a guard can hit me 3-10 times with a sword before I die (idk really, but somewhere in there) but a merc one shots me with a vengeance even with a one handed iron/steel sword. There might be something I wasn't noticing but that's the way it seemed. I'd have to sheathe my weapon mid combat and then pull it out again to protect myself from my own mercs lol. If I shot them once or something.

Dangit, are the mercs aggro to friendlies again? They are only supposed to fight back if they are below 25% health.

I just checked; they aren't doing it post update.

Edit: In fact, it's sort of hilarious because when you attack one of them they act like they're about to attack you back (i.e. knock an arrow and aim or raise their weapon at you) and the other mercs will go hostile to that merc for a second, sometimes hitting it once.

Yeah... it's just a safety mechanism at work really. Every second or so it checks if the Merc is hostile to the player (or followerfaction) and is given a StopCombat function. I was thinking about a slight delay, so that you could exchange friendly blows, and essentially see how hard they hit... but not fight to the death. I was concerned with how that would play out when they need to concentrate on the enemy and not the player.

Thanks for the update on the aggro.... that's a relief

If it's not to difficult, maybe add randomly generated names?

I tried. It's going to have to wait until I become a little more clever. I was able to do some name changes, but the game doesn't like it much. One at a time only (per RefAlias). I would need to create an array with a referenceAliases for every possible name change. Meaning, if I only made 20 aliases, you wouldn't be able to name more than 20 different chars. The code to do this is theoretical ATM. So I may spend a few hours on it, only to find it doesn't work. Random name gen is even more complex. Skyrim does not let you rename an object to a string of your choice. It can only assume the name of another object. So all the possible random names would have to be created before the game, then pulled at random.

I would like this feature, but it's on the Back-burner for now.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/modules/members/index.php?id=2950779

From your post in SW: I wanted to keep it here where I will remember it

"I think the different priced mercs should only become available based on your level for one... and somehow they should do less damage either way."

I have had a quite a few people say they may be overpowered. I am pondering a little nerf-action. Maybe make them all weaker, but add one more level that is $2000, but is as strong as the $1600 merc is now.

Sounds good. This is my favorite mod and I'm loading somewhere around 70 at the moment. I'm holding off on my first serious play through until this mod and Alternate Start gets a little more work. Once that's done it's game time!

Hey guys
I'm happy that our talk here is really making a difference and helping the modder. It's great to see the updates with new features already.
Unfortunately I won't be able to play Skyrim this week (university + girlfriend = no Skyrim for you), but I'm looking forward to test and enjoy all the new stuff.
Keep on the good work, we'll keep with the flow of ideas

I haven't tried this mod yet, but it sounds like a great idea.
As for payment, and I realize this is probably a bit late commenting on, I'd definitely prefer a scheme where you pay them weekly through dialog. Each group you hire would have a captain who'll accept the money and distribute for the men. You would have the option of trying to pay later via Persuation (and modified by what they think of you) and maytry to sweeten the deal with offering a bonus.
If you put off paying them too long, they eventually break the contract and take the money from your dead cold fingers (or try to)

Tying in with the loyalty system,and as suggested above you could give them a bonus once in awhile (Cash, booze)

Banners. It'd be fun if a famous (i.e skilled) band could have their own banner.

If you only had to pay for them weekly they'd never survive to get paid in my game at timescale 5 lol

@Thiago_Toste: Thanks for checking in! Looking forward to your opinions on the new updates when you are able to play again. Good luck with school!