Agreed... even on regular time-scale. But, in order to appease the masses, I may need to put a weekly option.

Hopefully it's not because of the update, but I've gone from #2 in "Popular This Week" to #25 in less than 20 hours. Bummer, I was hoping to hit #1 for at least a minute!

I should've grabbed my screenshot while at #2

lol

Yeah, optional rates would be good.

Ok hear me out on this Idea how about? A evil minion mod like dragurs skeletons and falmer you can gain their trust through blood contracts defending them from enemies storyline with them and you can gain their trust and then they give you permission to have as many as their minions as you want for an unstopable army here are the class ideas


dragur grunt: a weak dragur no armor and random weps

dragur warrior: can give it an option to give it sheild or 2h tough has no voice shouts has full set of armor from the skin diff skins per soldier random med trust faction

dragur archer: starter is anicent weps can improve them medieam diff to kill sharpshooter normal like say a guard half set of armor

dragur mage or shouter: very tough guy hard to kill must be higher trust with them or Gold depending on trust random dragur gear

falmer grunt: doesnt have armor on just a simple 1h weapon or bow random weps high trust facton

falmer warrior: tough as dragur warrior same stats same as warrior with falmer set

falmer archer: same as the dragur archer but with falmer set

falmer mage: a regualar falmer mage cast spells staff or swrod dagger etc

falmer Overlord: tougher that a dragur shouter or mage same as falmer warrior expect can have bow or 1h 2h sheild etc

skeleton grunt: very weak lowest trust faction

skeleton warrior: about half a regular dragur grunt very weak to 2h weps or hammers axes anything big blunt

skeleton archer: long bow iron arrows

skeleton beserker: about as tuff as a dragur warrior harder to kill wears a helm 2h or 1h wep sheild etc

orther idea


dremora grunt: same as a falmer grunt with daedric weapons though

dremora warrior: same as falmer warrior

dremora conjuer: summons minions to fight and is tough destuction very high trust faction + blood contracts

dremora god: very very tough can aggro and has a 2h hammer with full daedric set on hit does a pretty good hit like suaron with the hit back



now gentlemen how about this idea bad or good?

Could you maybe in your next update enable them to have lightfoot? Saddily I tend to get killed when I bring my merc in dungeon. The last time it was one of those swingy spike walls that got me as my guy went of chasing a draugr... He survived beating the swing... Unfortunately I was right behind him and ended up with a face full of bloody death XD. Also since this section is for opinions, maybe randomize race and gender of the mercenaries? Awesome mod and I enjoy it much even at its early stage . I hope you continue working on it, I look forward to the updates.

Lightfoot and other perks would be good if you pay for them. Either individually or through just buying the higher tier mercs. I think the cheap ones shouldn't have such things, really.

Yes, or make it optional as well. I'd like the individual option as well or that the higher teired mercs get it.

I really like the idea of having an "Evil" army. It will most-likely come much later, after the main MOD becomes it's full mature self. I anticipate the mod to grow in functionality, options, and more classes. When it's complete (or close to it), I think that would be a good time for an "Evil" expansion.

Your idea(s) will definitely be reviewed multiple times between now and then, by me, and hopefully by the other forum members. Thanks for posting your idea here! I do think it would be very cool!

Ok... so how about perks based on items. Like a "book of light-foot". Put it in the Merc's inventory to teach him the new ability. This would of course need to be purchased, or found through quests. Though, the assassin class mercs would have Lightfoot. So maybe instead of allowing so many abilities on every merc... be more class specific. If you think you need guys with lightfoot, take the Stealthier class mercs along.

What other class-oriented abilities are there? Reduced Fall-damage for Mercs. Increased walk/run speed for rangers? Any suggestions?

Double ingredients harvested from plants... lol

Just kidding. I don't really know.

Personally I like them to be as bland and static as humanly possible on a "you get what you pay for" basis. I'm actually turned off to the idea of having any magic using mercs, but I can see how there would be a large request base for this. It would be cool though, if you had to hire magic mercs in Winterhold or somewhere else. Stealth mercs in Riften. Normal mercs in Whiterun etc... and ranger mercs. Just ideas, idk really. Have you been able to gauge level requirements or damage output on the mercs yet? They seem to kill everything for everyone at the moment.

I actually really like Daggers idea of placement. Makes sense to me and adds to immersion as well because of it. I also like the idea of the books being purchased. Some one mentioned names as well being randomly generated, I wouldn't go as far as to give them personal names, but maybe add ranks like Say the top tier of a melee merc was "Elite Mercenary" and the one just below that was "Veteran Mercenary" instead so it's a little more easy when it comes to equipment management and also maybe randomize gender and race as well, I think there are just Nord npcs as of right now and all male.

Those last three are minor things though. I'd put the placement thing above anything else if you're going to introduce magic class mercs and assassin/stealth types. I'd also raise the prices for magic class mercs as well if you plan on letting them use self heals and target heals because they're going to stay at a distance probably while you take the brunt of the beating and because I imagine the last/most expensive tier on that branch will be OP.

That makes plenty of sense. Considering you still need to pay their daily wages, it might be better if you didn't have to pay for a new merc, if the last one he sold you bites it. I will think more about this. I would like more input from other players as well.

This mod sounds really, really good. I have an idea/suggestion. Instead of making mercenaries invincible when you hire them, how about they just die, not regenerating health. And the more mercenaries that die, the more expensive they get to compensate for there deaths. Also if X amount of mercenaries die, Saad won't let you hire any more for a certain amount of time or instead they will become hostile. This would fit nicely with the reputation idea.

Gotta say that really got me excited . "Veteran Mercenary". Makes me want to have each Merc store it's own history. Kill count, number of combat engagements, maybe even level up a bit the longer he's been around. Even if you dismiss them, they can hold their stats until you use them again. Then ultimately an "Elite Mercenary". This will help out the high-level players that have been asking for even stronger mercs (yeah, there's a few I'm surprised).

Yeah... I like the idea of advancing a relationship with an NPC... you know, there's always certain NPCs that tend to grow on you. Some people might want the ability to advance that further into a romance, but that isn't exactly what I mean, even though I wouldn't be opposed to the idea.

I like anzac's ideas. Personally, any updates that increase payment while decreasing the effectiveness of the lower end mercs deserves praise from my side of the table. Even the most harsh payments and weakest damage output would have a hard time countering the ability to buy as many as you want.

UPCOMING CHANGES Edit: Finally released (04/02/2012)

Thus far the participation of the people in this post has been instrumental in my productivity and motivation. I can't thank you enough.

Here's a list of some ideas from this forum that have been implemented in this update. Any previously discussed concepts not listed here are not ruled out, but require more consideration as to how best to implement them.

Not necessarily in order:
1. New Class : Destruction Mage -= Done =- There is a sinister looking gentleman in the Bannered-Mare. He will recruit destrction Magi

2. Add females: ('nuff said) -= Done =-

3. Compatibility: -= Done =- Saad, and any other Merc recruiters need to be available outside the cities (at least some of the time). This should help out anyone using another mod that modifies Whiterun to a degree that it interferes with his functionality and/or existence, like Open Cities.

Solution: Created code to have multiple spawn locations. Saad can be anywhere, and the mercs will spawn from the nearest door. Saad will now move to multiple locations, like the tavern at night so he is accessible to players with open cities. Also added an option to tell Saad and the other recruiters where to hang out to get the best business. Then he'll spend his days where you tell him, instead of over by the guard shack.

4. Hiring Adjustments: *Kind of a drastic change here. There is no longer a large fee from Saad when hiring a Merc. He will take %25 of 1 Days wage, as a negotiation fee for introducing you to a new Merc. This way, you don't need a ton of cash to get started, just so long as you make enough each day to pay your crew. To prevent players from hiring, then taking their stuff and selling it, you will be charged full-price on for taking items that they own.

4a. Tiered Mercs: -= Done =- The 5 Tiers of Mercs are now Novice, Apprentice, Adept, Expert, and Master. Their skills correspond to their respective levels.

4b. Player Matched Mercs: -= Done =- Additionally there is an option to build a Merc based on your own Level. This will randomly Generate a merc that should be comparable to your abilities based on an anolysis of your skills and level. All the uncappers out there whuold enjoy this new feature. It may also be more cost effective at times as you work your own way through the ranks. Daily wages are based on skills.

4c. Hire multiple Mercs at once: -= Done =- Once you have selected a Merc level from Saad (or other Merc Liaison) you will be asked to specify a quantity (Currenty 1-4). This allows you to build a team much faster. You can of course immediately hire another 4, and another 4. It's obviously much quicker than one-at-a-time.

5. User Modifiable Globals: -= Done =- After all the input I've received in Nexus and Steam, it's apparent that a lot of people want a lot of different things. I would like to make as much of them user-modifiable as possible, by setting different globals to enable/disable any features they choose. This forum is guiding me to a default play-style, but I'd still like to give everyone the option to immerse themselves how they see fit.

They work like this (from the console):

set GlobalVariable to Value

Value will be a number that you want to assign
GlobalVariable can be any one of the following:

• MercsGetPaid: (Ratio) Do Mercs require payment? Default = 1
  
• MercsAutoPay: (Binary) Option to automatically pay each day without asking. Default = 0 ( false )
  
• MercsRez: (Binary) Do Mercs Resurrect? Default = 0 ( false )
  
• MercsFrat: (Binary) Fratricide Protection? Default = 1 ( true )
  
• MercsRatio: (Ratio) Set this as a Ratio Multiplier to increase or decrease the default skill values (at spawntime). Default = 1

Examples:

set MercsGetPaid to 0 will not charge you for mercs ever
set MercsGetPaid to 0.5 Mercs cost half their normal value

set MercsAutoPay to 1 turns on the AutoPay feature
set MercsFrat to 0 turns off the Fratricide Protection feature
set MercsRez to 1 turns on the feature that resurrects your mercs after they die


set MercsRatio to 1.25 will make them spawn %25 stronger
set MercsRatio to 0.75 will make them %25 weaker
set MercsRatio to 1 will make them normal


6. Shows Stats + History: -= Done =- New "Show History" option. This shows you:

• Total History: Day's since first introduction to this Merc
  
• Total Employed: Total Days employed by you
  
• Current Employed: Day's of consecutive employment (if employed)
  
• Current Unemployed: Day's of consecutive unemployment (if unemployed)
  
• Kills: How many deaths this merc has dealt for you.

7. Names for your Mercs: -= Done =- There have been many requests for the ability to give names to the mercs. I had always intended on making it happen. A random brainstorm led to it's implementation a bit early. The code allows you to choose a name from a list (essentially). After a short time (3-4 work days) you will have the opportunity to ask the Merc "So, what's your name?". He/She will then say "My name is ...." you will be presented with two options "No, really, what's your name?", or "Oh, That suits you".

The merc will keep saying a random name until you pick the second option. Then, he/she will permanently assume that name.

8. Trade System: -= Done =- You can trade with the Merc immediately after you hire them. If you try to take their stuff, you will be charged for it. This only applies to the stuff they spawn with. You can give them things, and take them back with no charge. You will now see the gold they've earned in their inventory, but you cannot take it.

Mercs will equip any item you give them. They will wear it as soon as you give it to them. Whether it's stronger/weaker is irrelevant, YOU decide what they wear. This also works for Jewelry (jewelry effects have been tested, bonuses will apply)

9. Troop Formations: -= Done =- Oh yeah. There is an new option in the Merc-Menu called "Formation". Selecting this option turns on the "Formation Mode". Essentially replaces the 'Menu' power with a new ability that toggles formation movement. When it's enable, troops will move in to more tactical positions. Melee characters to the front, Archers and Magi to the rear. Activate the power again to disable. The power will stay equipped so that you may turn it on and off during battle without having to access the menu a 2nd time. It actually works best to only turn it on for a few seconds at a time, just long enough to rearrange the battlefield with a more strategic posture. If you want to get back to the troop menu, just double-click the power and it will switch back to menu mode.

This feature is somewhat experimental, but offers incredible tactical benefits. Engaging this in the heat of battle will bring your archers out of danger, and push your melee characters out front to take the impact. Walking backward while "formations" is on, allows you to pull your troops back with you. This allows you to withdraw the whole group for a more advantageous position without having to retreat. "Formations" will override the Mercs even if they are engaged with an enemy. This alleviates the frustration of having a merc fight to his own death, when pulling back to regroup would be the better option.

10. More Faces: -= Done =- There are now 32 different NPC's (16 Male/16 female) for each type of merc (Melee, Archer, Mage), totaling 96 different looking NPC's. (sorry all human right now)

11. Lightfoot: Mercs will have the "Light Foot" perk added when they enter sneak mode.

Bug Fixes:

Dialogue/Trade Actor mismatch: Previously there was a slight chance you would trade with a different merc than you are actually talking to. (i.e. You take armor from a NPC, but you actually took it from the guy next to him.) This shouldn't happen. (as often)

Battle Vision: this was something I left in after development because I thought some players might like it. It's handy to me, and I haven't had any complaints about it, despite the weird delay. Perhaps nobody except me is using it. Either way, I rewrote the code to operate independently instead of a byproduct of a loop from another script. It now functions like the detect spell, being instantaneous, but still toggles on/off from the menu.

Inheritances: There was an issue where a messenger would bring you an inheritance after one of the Mercs died. I changed their relationship with the character, so I don't think this will happen any longer.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I may be adding to this list a bit more. Note: This is just what I'm planning for the next update. By keeping this list small, I can get a new update out sooner, put some more NPC's, classes and features. Then begin contemplating some of the more involved projects. Thanks again everyone for the help!

I like the idea of Number 5. ultimately giving the player the option to control what goes on. Because you'll usually have one side say "Hey you know what? This isn't just isn't cutting it and it's breaking what realism this game has" or the other that says " I'd like a bit more freedom rather than being constrained to these options" no matter what you do you can't please both sides completely, but adding what amounts to a list of customizable options/ a way to fine tune things if you will for individuals is actually a good way to go and should satisfy most.

As for the Magik type users I'd make them very limited because for one: the gear they are probably sporting because of the enchants on them, I assume they'll be generic robe wearing Mages/Necros and such would probably pay for them selves if you looted them once they died, so I'd increase prices more so than the standard meele mercs.

Also I have an idea, not sure if you are able to work with questlines or not, but it's sort of like a reputation addon. Basically it'd require the player to earn "Reputation" through doing quests or "Bounty" type quests for Saad or any of the other Merc leaders that make contracts. Say you want to buy a Merc, the first tier or the lowest ones would be unlocked, but unlocking any of the others would require a certain amount of rep like for instance killing a Dragon would be a significant boost in rep/notoriety or maybe even an instant unlock or just make a built in difficulty setting of some sort.

?? I believe you have 4 tiers for Mercs right now, if you did do something like a rep and a veteran/evolution/leveling system like you suggested then I'd add an additional tier only being unlocked by completing an achievement of some sort and of some great significance and call the last tier Hero/Champion which no other level Merc could be brought up to that tier through evolving and have him/her not just randomly generate armor or weapons but instead randomly pick from a set depending on what class it is, but still making the player have to purchase it and make it very expensive, I'm not sure about its stats, but I wouldn't keep it too nerfed down if you were to make the player really work for it.

I play this with 4 other mods that really make this game a living hell as far as difficulty: Deadly Dragons, Warzones Civil unrest, Wars in Skyrim and More Dragons. Your mod helps a lot in keeping me alive for the most part on Quests, unless of course they step on a pressure plate... then they're just helping every thing else that's out to get me by giving me a face full of spike traps or getting me burnt to a fine crisp and ultimately contributing to my pain,killing me or maiming me to the point of where I get "One'd" by something else. XD


-I'm really looking forward to the updates and additions that were listed when and if they are released. Keep up the awesome work.

Sounds great... can't wait!

Added this:

6. Shows Stats + History: Need to add Armor rating to the Stats view, as well as a new "Show History" option. This shows you:

• Total History: Day's since first introduction to this Merc
  
• Total Employed: Total Days employed by you
  
• Current Employed: Day's of consecutive employment (if employed)
  
• Current Unemployed: Day's of consecutive unemployment (if unemployed)
  
• Kills: How many deaths this merc has dealt for you.

the history data will be used in the future to calculate things like "Loyalty", "Rank", "Experience" etc.

Just wanted to say that this mod is awesome, and I'm loving the ideas. I especially like the stats and history part; I've always found that stuff super cool.

Update:

3. Compatibility: Saad, and any other Merc contractors need to be available outside the cities (at least some of the time). This should help out anyone using another mod that modifies Whiterun to a degree that it interferes with his functionality and/or existence. Like Open Cities, and I think 'Beautiful Whiterun' might bug out too.
Progess: Created code to have multiple spawn locations. Saad can be anywhere, and the mercs will spawn from the nearest location in the list. Saad will now move to multiple locations, like the tavern at night so he is accessible to players with opens cities. I'm contemplating adding an option to tell Saad where to hang out to get the best business. Then he'll spend his days where you tell him, instead of over by the guard shack.

6. Shows Stats + History: -= Done =-

Good stuff!

How's the progress?

Update:

4. Make them Less Powerful: -= Done =- And then add another tier at the top end (which may evolve into earned higher tier)

Kind of a drastic change here. There is no longer a large fee from Saad when hiring a Merc. He will take %25 of 1 Days wage, as a negotiation fee for introducing you to a new Merc. This way, you don't need a ton of cash to get started, just so long as you make enough each day to pay your crew. To prevent players from hiring, then taking their stuff and selling it, you are not allowed to trade with your mercs until they've been on payroll for 7 days. (show history will reflect days employed)

They are not as strong as before, but a new tier has been added to the top end. There are now 5 tiers, starting at 50g per day. (most expensive is 250g per day)