Ponyfication Question

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:32 am

Depends, does cyborg me still have a sense of taste? 'Cause the ability to enjoy pastries is a deal breaker.
User avatar
ILy- Forver
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:18 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:44 am

Ah, but that is the fundamental problem. Is the "transfer" of consciousness from one brain to another possible? Does the idea of transferring consciousness even make sense?

Consider this scenario. We have a machine that can "transfer" your consciousness from your organic brain to a synthetic brain. Let's assume that the process ends with your organic brain being melted into goo after your consciousness has been transferred to the synthetic brain.

In your new robot body with synthetic brain, you wake up and say, "I'm Cabius, and it's great to be a robot!"

Now, suppose the machine malfunctioned and your original organic brain was not destroyed. It wakes up in your original organic body and says, "Wait, I'm Cabius, and I'm still human."

They can't both be you, and it seems self-evident that the organic you, with your original brain, is the real you (it was the real you before you entered the machine, after all). The "transferred" consciousness, if it even exists, cannot be you. Inasmuch as you are your consciousness, there can be only one of you. A consciousness separate from your own phenomenological experience is, by definition, not you.

I would argue that consciousness, by it's very nature, cannot be transferred. Consciousness is not an object. It is not physical. We humans have been attempting to objectify consciousness since the beginning of human thought, and it has only led us around in circles.

You talk as if we where to copy the consciousness, I know as it sits now there is no such thing as transferring, in a computer it copies data from one spot and deletes it from the other, it doesn't actually transfer as it appears. The only way I would do it is if we could come up with a way of transferring without deleting. As an example of what I mean it would be like me going from my bedroom to the living room, I just transferred myself from one point to another there is not a version in the other room, and I did not delete myself to be put into the other room. So my organic body would become a brain dead husk because I am no longer in it. As this is not yet possible and may never be possible we can only leave it to Science Fiction to see the possibilities.
User avatar
Anna Krzyzanowska
 
Posts: 3330
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:08 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 9:48 am

OP, what do you mean exactly by someone becoming a cyborg? Do we still have all our senses? Do we still look human? Do we have genitalia? Is our consciousness still as it was when it was in a flesh bag? Etc.

Depends, does cyborg me still have a sense of taste? 'Cause the ability to enjoy pastries is a deal breaker.

Hahah. Best post in this thread.
User avatar
Bek Rideout
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:00 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:03 am

Interesting question. For me it would depend a whole lot on what the process entailed. That is, do I lose my ability to emote/feel? Do I get to keep my memories? Do I get to look fairly human or am I going to have metal skin and glowing red eyes?

Personally, once my human lifespan was coming to a close I'd love to be able to continue in another form of some kind. Mostly for the longevity and being able to continue to see what history has in store.

I don't want to be a robot or even like Star Trek's Data (no emotion), but something akin to what happens in John Scalzi's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man%27s_War series would be cool...not the war part, but the new artificial body part (the bodies aren't "robotic"). DNA and nanotechnology.
User avatar
Krystal Wilson
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:40 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 6:16 am

Absolutely. Integrating ourselves with technology does not mean losing our humanity - it's simply the next stage of evolution. Assuming I still have full control of myself, there is no downside to improving ourselves through technology. Increased strength, health, and mental sharpness? Yes please.

Just think how far we as a species would/will come if/when this technology becomes standard.
User avatar
Lakyn Ellery
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:02 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 9:46 am

You talk as if we where to copy the consciousness, I know as it sits now there is no such thing as transferring, in a computer it copies data from one spot and deletes it from the other, it doesn't actually transfer as it appears. The only way I would do it is if we could come up with a way of transferring without deleting. As an example of what I mean it would be like me going from my bedroom to the living room, I just transferred myself from one point to another there is not a version in the other room, and I did not delete myself to be put into the other room. So my organic body would become a brain dead husk because I am no longer in it. As this is not yet possible and may never be possible we can only leave it to Science Fiction to see the possibilities.

My prediction is that it will never be possible, and the idea itself arises from our inability to intuitively grasp the nature of our own consciousness and it's neural correlates. However, it does make for interesting Sci-fi scenarios.
User avatar
lillian luna
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:43 pm

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:40 pm

My prediction is that it will never be possible, and the idea itself arises from our inability to intuitively grasp the nature of our own consciousness and it's neural correlates. However, it does make for interesting Sci-fi scenarios.

Where do you think the consciousness is "stored?" What's so unrealistic about taking our brain (which I'm assuming contains our personality/memories/conciousness etc.) and transferring it to a synthetic body? The brain requires certain proteins and chemicals to function and keep from decaying, and if those are provided, whether naturally or through synthetic means, what's the difference? What makes you "you" would still be intact, simply in another body.
User avatar
Vicki Gunn
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:59 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 7:59 am

I would unless one of two realities were the case:

1. I was forced into the military.

2. Crazy fundamentalists went around killing them (quite likely, unfortunately)

My reason is pretty lame: I've got a couple mild health issues that'd be nice to not have to deal with anymore.

Also: what makes you human is your free will, ability to think and rationalize, and your personality. Not some sack of flesh.

I don't know about these, humanity has plenty of idiots.

No, I would not want to put myself in a robotic body. I would get a prosthetic if I needed one, but only if I needed it for a lost limb or a major organ.

And everyone's time comes eventually.

Also didn't we have this discussion before, something about Trans-Humanism?
User avatar
Hilm Music
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:36 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:54 am

For anyone who needs clarifications, what I mean is would you become a cyborg like the Mortal Kombat Cyborgs.
User avatar
Destinyscharm
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:06 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 2:23 am

Where do you think the consciousness is "stored?" What's so unrealistic about taking our brain (which I'm assuming contains our personality/memories/conciousness etc.) and transferring it to a synthetic body? The brain requires certain proteins and chemicals to function and keep from decaying, and if those are provided, whether naturally or through synthetic means, what's the difference? What makes you "you" would still be intact, simply in another body.

Transferring the brain is something entirely different from transferring the consciousness and leaving the brain behind. That's my point. The latter is seemingly impossible.
User avatar
james tait
 
Posts: 3385
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:26 pm

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:43 pm

Transferring the brain is something entirely different from transferring the consciousness and leaving the brain behind.

Ah, I misread. Going on our current understanding of this subject, I agree. Transferring our consciousness without a direct transplant of the brain is impossible.
User avatar
Monika Fiolek
 
Posts: 3472
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:57 pm

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 8:26 pm

I don't know about these, humanity has plenty of idiots.
Being able to think and rationalize and being an idiot are not mutually excusive. So long as you are conscious you are thinking, and rationalizing just means you can connect a couple of dots, even if the way you connect them is totally wrong.
User avatar
bimsy
 
Posts: 3541
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:04 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:05 am

No it isn't, you are a human being; if they took you out of that and put your consciousness into a macine or whatever you'd just be an intelligent lifeform formally of the human species.
Again, a bunch of meaningless nonsense.
User avatar
Kelvin Diaz
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 5:16 pm

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 7:51 pm

You would never know if you were a cyborg or not, your perception would be different to what humans would see.
User avatar
Leanne Molloy
 
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:09 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 3:38 am

Again, a bunch of meaningless nonsense.
Okay then smart guy, define humanity for me; define what it is to be a human being with the potential to transfer your conciousness into a machine.

EDIT: Simple enough to me, if your not in a human body, you aren't a human; as far as definations go it's pretty clear-cut. Your just opposing for the sake of it, it's not like I was saying your last post was wrong.
User avatar
Dalia
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:29 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 7:28 am

Okay then smart guy, define humanity for me; define what it is to be a human being with the potential to transfer your conciousness into a machine.

EDIT: Simple enough to me, if your not in a human body, you aren't a human; as far as definations go it's pretty clear-cut. Your just opposing for the sake of it, it's not like I was saying your last post was wrong.
No, if you are not in the modern biological match of the homo sapien body, you are not taxonomically a homo sapien, but humans are not limited to homo sapiens, they are just the current taxonomy of human. That taxonomy does change all the time, though no technology-induced change has ever been done before, but that doesn't mean that such a person wouldn't be human, but just they'd be the first taxonomy of human not derived from evolution.

God those are horrible run-on sentences, but I'm too lazy to fix them.
User avatar
Marcia Renton
 
Posts: 3563
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:15 am

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 8:49 pm

Okay then smart guy, define humanity for me; define what it is to be a human being with the potential to transfer your conciousness into a machine.

EDIT: Simple enough to me, if your not in a human body, you aren't a human; as far as definations go it's pretty clear-cut. Your just opposing for the sake of it, it's not like I was saying your last post was wrong.

But then you have the problem of incremental replacement. Certainly, someone with an artificial limb is still human. A person with an artificial heart is still human. How much of the body can be replaced by synthetic variants and still be human? Would a person who lost the lower half of their body in an accident, and had it replaced with a synthetic abdomen and set of legs still be human? What about a person whose body from the neck down is replaced with a synthetic body, but their head remains completely organic and original. Still human?

What makes a body human?
User avatar
Farrah Lee
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:32 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 8:02 am

But then you have the problem of incremental replacement. Certainly, someone with an artificial limb is still human. A person with an artificial heart is still human. How much of the body can be replaced by synthetic variants and still be human? Would a person who lost the lower half of their body in an accident, and had it replaced with a synthetic abdomen and set of legs still be human? What about a person whose body from the neck down is replaced with a synthetic body, but their head remains completely organic and original. Still human?
Of course they are, you stop being a human - as far as I can tell - when you have your conciousness transferred to an entirely artificial body; otherwise your just a augmented human, your still in a human body, it's just been heavily changed.
User avatar
xx_Jess_xx
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:01 pm

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 5:42 pm

Of course they are, you stop being a human - as far as I can tell - when you have your conciousness transferred to an entirely artificial body; otherwise your just a augmented human, your still in a human body, it's just been heavily changed.

So when you are entirely transferred, what does that make you?
User avatar
Leticia Hernandez
 
Posts: 3426
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:46 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 5:23 am

So when you are entirely transferred, what does that make you?
As I said before - which is apparently nonsense - you are an intelligent entity within a machine; I'm not saying that your anyless of an intelligent creature or worthy of subjugation or anything as dark, but you wouldn't be a human - you'd be someone who was once a human but is now another lifeform all together.
User avatar
Thomas LEON
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:01 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 6:06 am

Okay then smart guy, define humanity for me; define what it is to be a human being with the potential to transfer your conciousness into a machine.

EDIT: Simple enough to me, if your not in a human body, you aren't a human; as far as definations go it's pretty clear-cut. Your just opposing for the sake of it, it's not like I was saying your last post was wrong.

It doesn't need to be defined. Really, it can't be. Any definition would be arbitrary because you'd be trying to define a concept with no meaning or value.
User avatar
Dark Mogul
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:51 am

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 6:15 pm

Wondering that if humanity was dealing with a virus that would destroy it entirely, would you choose to save yourself by being a cyborg?
User avatar
Melung Chan
 
Posts: 3340
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:15 am

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 4:46 am

It doesn't need to be defined. Really, it can't be. Any definition would be arbitrary because you'd be trying to define a concept with no meaning or value.
A difference of opinion then; I can't really grasp something that doesn't have a defination, even a speculative one. I am aware of certain "symbolic" conditions people often ascociate the word humanity with, such as compasion, aspiration etc; given that most of these have their own words already I just take humanity to mean people who are human outside of any other personal traits.
User avatar
Tina Tupou
 
Posts: 3487
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:37 pm

Post » Tue May 15, 2012 8:37 am

I am against anything that will alter my body, so no. I rather die then become a cyborg or robot.
User avatar
Michelle Smith
 
Posts: 3417
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:03 am

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 9:09 pm

Of course they are, you stop being a human - as far as I can tell - when you have your conciousness transferred to an entirely artificial body; otherwise your just a augmented human, your still in a human body, it's just been heavily changed.

So essentially, you're no longer a biological human after becoming a cyborg. I think that makes sense. That being said however, what makes you feel human, your memories and emotions and free thought, would still remain. You may not be considered a human by other people, but you yourself would still remain a person.

Answering the question, yes I would do so. I would enjoy being able to transcend the boundaries of an organic human body. But I would also like if I had companions who are also cyborgs.
User avatar
Ross Thomas
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:06 am

PreviousNext

Return to Othor Games