Change will always happen , it just seems you want things to remain the same, though refining is better you would also need to change things. Otherwise you would complain its the same game etc.....

Copy and pasted portion.

Unfortunately you haven't played Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind.

Those three are the epitome of what Bethesda is capable of making in terms of a game. They had great storylines, they immersed you into the game, the world, the race, the culture, everything. They might not have fancy graphics by today's standards, but for their time and what the game constituted they were phenomenal.

Oblivion is an amazing game compared to Skyrim.

Oblivion might have sacrificed some things that were present in earlier Elder Scrolls games:

1. Spears
2. Crossbows
3. Mysticism
4. Levitation
5. The blending of illogical skills. Dagger =\= Two Handed Sword
6. Introduction of Fast Travel without consequence
7. Beast Races have humanoid bodies

But at least Oblivion was able to capture your attention in regards to the story. As much as I was upset with Bethesda for removing and changing what they did, I can at least say Oblivion evoked an emotional response from me. I cared about the story, slightly the characters, and much about the future of the Elder Scrolls universe. I was anxious to see the next Elder Scrolls game.

Oblivion redeemed itself however with the Shivering Isles expansion, and the close interaction with everyone's favorite Mad-God Sheogorath.

Here is what Skyrim lacked in term of game aspects and Mechanics:

1. Spears
2. Crossbows
3. Mysticism
4. Levitation
5. The blending of illogical skills. Dagger =/= Two Handed Sword
6. Fast travel without consequence
7. Beast Races have humanoid bodies
8. Having to account for gravity and intelligent aiming when firing a bow (Skyrim is point in the right direction and you hit it)
9. Pointless unpolished out aspects such as marriage.
10. Excessively SHORT quest lines for every single faction/organization that were honestly not that much more "unique" in comparison to earlier games. In all honestly, the factions svcked.
11. Werewolves were pointless. Werewolves were far more flushed out in Morrowind. Being a werewolf in Morrowind was fun. Being a werewolf in Skyrim was boring and svcked.
12. Emotionless storyline. Don't even try to say it was. I'm able to admit I'm an emotional person. It's very easy to evoke a visible emotional response in me with music, movies, stories and whatnot. I did not give a damn about Skyrim's ending. I don't care about the Elder Scrolls anymore. Coming from someone like me, that's saying something.
13. Civil war was lackluster and unpolished. I'm a high ranking member of the Stormcloaks! Oh wait I forgot to do that one quest that requires I talk in person to the LEADER OF MY ENEMY. Better complete that before I lead the Stormcloaks to victory! [censored].
14. The ability to join every single faction no matter what.

---14a. In older Elder Scrolls games you had to have a minimum required level in various skills associated with said faction in order to join it.
---14b. In order to advance in said faction you had to do enough missions/quests AND meet increasingly higher level expectations in said skills.

----- In Skyrim, you can become the leader of the Companions without even knowing any sword, armor, or similar skills that are associated with what is the equivalent of the fighters guild. I became the Compaions leader as a damn mage. Which also doesn't fit with the lore, because non magic users distrust magic, and especially nords.

15. ABSOLUTELY NO STATS AND RPG ELEMENTS
---15a. This isn't [censored] medieval Call of Doodie. There are basically no elements in this game that make it an RPG. The devolution of a complex stat system into Health/Mana/Stamina means the loss of a core element of what constitutes an RPG.
---15b. Because there are no stats and other RPG elements, you can do anything with any character, effectively destroying the concept of specialization and class.
---15c. In older Elder Scrolls games. If you were a Mage, you were a Mage and a Mage. If you wanted to cross class it was a difficult process. If you were a Warrior class and wanted to use magic, it was a nigh impossible task. Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE A [censored] BARBARIAN.
---15d. Cross classing in older games was possible, but harder, yet rewarded you more when you got higher levels.

16. Lack of Birthsigns. Birthsigns were an important game element in ALL older Elder Scrolls games that helped make your character unique. They were a lore aspect that defined your character as a unique character as well as helped you in certain in game situations in unique fashions.
---16a. You have access to every single birthsign in Skyrim. All you have to do is find the damn stone.

17. The introduction of smithing.
---17a. Before you whine like a 12 year old [censored], wait while I explain why smithing destroys Elder Scrolls lore.

18. Originally a series of games primarily designed for the computer for a multitude of reasons (construction set etc.), Skyrim is clearly designed for the console; steering it away from the generally older and more mature PC gamer crowd towards the ADD/ADHD generation of child gamers with consoles. Not that there's anything wrong with consoles, but it's typically different philosophies associated with each.

In the Elder Scrolls there were a multitude of objects that couldn't be found except by a mix of dedication and chance. In the Elder Scrolls universe and lore, Dwemer (Dwarven) objects are unique in the notion that the technology of the Dwemer was such that it was impossible to recreate. The idea that you can make your own Dwemer armor is completely contradictory to the lore of the Elder Scrolls. In the Elder Scrolls universe, any and all Dwemer artifacts were the property of the Emperor and the Empire by merit of their technological superiority, their rarity, and their "power." Dealing in them was illegal.

How does that lore concept make sense anymore when now everyone and their mother can make Dwemer armor? It violates lore aspects.

There's probably more but I'm tired of typing right now.

oh, hai, here's another member who played all of the TES games, and I'm here to tell you to get down from your high horse, and try to remember right.

So the older games were much better, huh?

Because Arena and Daggerfall had humanoid beast races too. And of course, races cannot be unique just by having different feet... Whiskers, fangs, scales... Who cares, they need to walk the dinosaur.
So you don't need a requirement to join a guild? So the test to enter the college os just for fun, anyone can do that? Even your dumb warrior can easily pickpocket people to join the thieves guild?

Skyrim has been out not even a week. Its depths and intricacies have already been seriously, fully, and objectively explored and players can now declare, yea verily, that Skyrim is thoroughly unbalanced and broken in precisely this and that way. I am skeptical.

oh, hai, here's another member who played all of the TES games, and I'm here to tell you to get down from your high horse, and try to remember right.

So the older games were much better, huh?

Because Arena and Daggerfall had humanoid beast races too. And of course, races cannot be unique just by having different feet... Whiskers, fangs, scales... Who cares, they need to walk the dinosaur.
So you don't need a requirement to join a guild? So the test to enter the college os just for fun, anyone can do that? Even your dumb warrior can easily pickpocket people to join the thieves guild?
Oh yeah, skills, health, magicka and stamina are not RPG elements. Remember arena and the depth of it's skill system, oops, it doesn't have those, so I guess it's not a true RPG either. Oh, silly me, you can live without skills, attributes are the one that mean EVERYTHING.
So the defeat of Dagoth Ur was moe important because... Oh, right, the great houses were truly deep and complex, even though they did absolutely nothing if you entered a rival House's hall. Yeah, saving all those people who did nothing at all just picking their nose, looking for "that slave" felt much more satisfying.

More to come...

Considering myself also a big Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind fan (although I haven't played any of those games for a veeeeeery long time). Oblivion was bearable for me to play only after a ton of mods. But I like Skyrim, they did a lot of things right. Yes, its streamlined and as some say, "dumbed down", but you still have your capability to RP and choose the paths you take.Biggest letdown for me (and this is starting from Oblivion) is guilds. They are very small, starting from Skyrim also local and they are basically meaningless. This is what Morrowind got right- you had to know your trade to get into the guild. You had to get better to rank up in the guild. You had to be a real master of your craft to be a guild leader (and it had benefits!).Sense of accomplishment is totally missing from latest TES games guilds mechanics and that's a shame, real shame.Other than that? Everything is fine. Series took this turn we see now and there's nothing an individual player can do about this. You play the game and enjoy what it has to offer, or you'll just let the series go and turn to some old-school european RPG's like Drakensang (that I can also wholeheartedly recommend).

I think I'm going to send a link to this thread to Bethesda. Hopefully someone reads it and they take some of these things to heart.

Arrrggghhh

To those people saying an RPG is just a Role Playing Game, wake up!

The name of a genre is merely a descriptive name to put a set of games into a category. Therefore its the initial description. You could name a Genre "Bob" and it would be equally descriptive if all games of a certain type were in the "Bob" genre and you knew what type of games those were.

When games first started to feature, they became so expansive that we felt the need to categorise them. Games which involved you beating people up using a combination of moves and characters were named "Beat 'Em Up"
Games where you defined your characters skills and traits, with loot based system and a choice of character were named RPG after the pen and paper RPG's.

Therefore the name RPG in video game terms means a game with stats, loot, character and story, often with dungeons with a tactical attitude towards combat and progression.

Morrowind managed to fit into this category. Oblivion loosely managed to fit into this category. Skyrim only just manages to fit into this category.

However, in a bid to get clearer descriptions for each genre, they were split into sub genres. So we now have Action RPG where the action is the focus and the stats an after though. CRPG (Which actually stands for Computer RPG) where the likes of Morrowind, Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age Origins (loosely) fit.

And so does Skyrim fit into the RPG category? Yes i believe it does, albeit loosely. But it fits much better into the Action RPG genre.

So can we PLEASE stop saying that an RPG is a game where you play a role. GTA4 is not an RPG. COD (where youp lay the role of a soldier) is not an RPG. Despite its description the term RPG does not stand for a game where you play a role, it stands for the genre of games as stated above.

Thanks

Lol.

There's probably more but I'm tired of typing right now.

I play Elder scroll games for ages. Really love this series, but i have to comply with the OP.


The only point I disagree with him is on smithing. Smithing is not bad.. the easyness of smithing anything is the issue. If you had to make perilous quests and adventures to get projects and samples and material to make the advanced weapons everything would be OK.


But a good RPG game NEED stats because we need to be able to make our characters be more different, we need to be able to make a character that runs faster than another, or is weaker than another, or one with very high willpower and nearly immune to magic... etc... You need skills that add to gameplay and character differentiation, as athetics, that is MUCH MUCH more important than lockpick. You Need to feel the weaposn are different in game, that you want to seek fro a sword, not an AXE or a mace, because your charater is a swordsman, not an axeman! THAT is the main reason why morrowind was an excelent game. And please bethesda.. remember that was morrowind that saved your company. Compared to the gamers population, morrowind sold far more than more recent games.


The world and story is excelent., the mechanics although are on a lowest point on history of bethesda games.

Skyrim was is amazing.

Arrrggghhh

To those people saying an RPG is just a Role Playing Game, wake up!

The name of a genre is merely a descriptive name to put a set of games into a category. Therefore its the initial description. You could name a Genre "Bob" and it would be equally descriptive if all games of a certain type were in the "Bob" genre and you knew what type of games those were.

When games first started to feature, they became so expansive that we felt the need to categorise them. Games which involved you beating people up using a combination of moves and characters were named "Beat 'Em Up"
Games where you defined your characters skills and traits, with loot based system and a choice of character were named RPG after the pen and paper RPG's.

Therefore the name RPG in video game terms means a game with stats, loot, character and story, often with dungeons with a tactical attitude towards combat and progression.

Morrowind managed to fit into this category. Oblivion loosely managed to fit into this category. Skyrim only just manages to fit into this category.

However, in a bid to get clearer descriptions for each genre, they were split into sub genres. So we now have Action RPG where the action is the focus and the stats an after though. CRPG (Which actually stands for Computer RPG) where the likes of Morrowind, Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age Origins (loosely) fit.

And so does Skyrim fit into the RPG category? Yes i believe it does, albeit loosely. But it fits much better into the Action RPG genre.

So can we PLEASE stop saying that an RPG is a game where you play a role. GTA4 is not an RPG. COD (where youp lay the role of a soldier) is not an RPG. Despite its description the term RPG does not stand for a game where you play a role, it stands for the genre of games as stated above.

Thanks

In the Elder Scrolls there were a multitude of objects that couldn't be found except by a mix of dedication and chance. In the Elder Scrolls universe and lore, Dwemer (Dwarven) objects are unique in the notion that the technology of the Dwemer was such that it was impossible to recreate. The idea that you can make your own Dwemer armor is completely contradictory to the lore of the Elder Scrolls. In the Elder Scrolls universe, any and all Dwemer artifacts were the property of the Emperor and the Empire by merit of their technological superiority, their rarity, and their "power." Dealing in them was illegal.

How does that lore concept make sense anymore when now everyone and their mother can make Dwemer armor? It violates lore aspects.

There's probably more but I'm tired of typing right now.

Biggest letdown for me (and this is starting from Oblivion) is guilds. They are very small, starting from Skyrim also local and they are basically meaningless. This is what Morrowind got right- you had to know your trade to get into the guild.

That's good cause I'm tired of reading. Levitate? Spears? Please.