25, plus I played pen & paper rpg for about 12 years, so don′t try and pull that trick fellow, as someone else so greatly put it.

Oh get over yourself.

I've played tons of games that have changed over the ages and been very accepting of the changes if they were logical and still made sense.

Many of the changes within Skyrim however were stupid, pointless, or made no sense within Elder Scrolls. It's only going to get worse.

And you don't feel traits serve a similar role to attributes? Or even do a better job of defining specific things your character is and isn't good at?

But wait, I don't agree with you, so clearly I'm a thirteen year old COD loving troll. Yawn. Spare me the histrionics.

I agree on all accounts , but i still like the game.

Firstly, calm down. Most people stop reading a post if it has more than 2 "[censored]"s and isn't funny. Secondly, I have played some of the previous games (mostly Morrowind). Thirdly, what d'you mean by "RPG elements"? 'Cause they're there. They may not be like Oblivion (and besides this bit, I won't get into asking why you think it was better), but the game is an RPG, sorry buddy.

As for the littler things, like joining hella factions or smithing Dwemer - I agree, but again, it's an RPG. If you don't like it, don't do it. It's literally your universe - play it as you see legitimate (and/or find mods that fit your style).

And in all seriousness. In the future, if you want others to take you seriously, don't rage-post. Drafts are your best friend. Cheers.

I feel sorry for you, I'm loving Skyrim, likely my favourite elder scrolls so far.

I agree with many of the Ops points but not nearly so strongly.

I also think its pathetic when people flame those who like stats.

Stats can represent your character and skill in the game (much like they did in Morrowind)
You like loot? Stats are no different. They just relate to your characters skills as opposed to what the character is using.
They are a visual representation of what your playing time so far as achieved and a reminder of what path you chose and which paths you ignored.
Same as loot right? You like shiny new wizard hats and swords of death, doom and cream tea because they make you feel more powerfull. But when you find a sword of death, doom and cream tea + 1 you use that. Not because it looks better, but because its stats are better.

Same idea with character stats. So all you loot loving stat hating flamers? Shush!

Having said all that i dont think TES is dying. Its going to a place i might not be able to follow but i am getting a considerable amount of enjoyment from the current iteration. Yes i preferred Morrowind blah blah but Skyrim, for all its faults, is still a pretty phenomenal game IMO.

Its just with each iteration i become more and more weary about the direction Bethesda is following.

Like Bioware i feel they are becoming to action focused with too few RPG elements to keep my interesting. (Bioware being a step ahead of Bethesda in this case as i havent liked their games for a while)

they may have eliminated stats that defined players to certain classes but skyrim has perks which basically does the same thing those extra attributes did. once you choose a perk you're still defining what type of character you're going though it's possible for warriors to play has mages/archers though not very practical.

A system that associates skill with a dagger to skill with a Mace simply by merit of the fact they use one hand to use? Let me take a moment to laugh at your stupidity.

All you did there was give your own crappy definition of what an RPG is to you.

All I am going to say is the games that generally get put under the RPG genre have usually been heavily reliant on stats.

OP, I'm afraid your post just reflects your personal taste (or lack of it). I liked Oblivion, but I also found its characters and plots to be unengaging and uninspring, and its game world generic and bland. Anything you did in Oblivion felt inconsequential and somewhat pointless.

Skyrim, in comparison, is like a work of art. The entire landscape feels hand-crafted. The gameworld svcks you in through much better characterisation and emotive depiction. It gives you more reason to do things than Oblivion ever did.

It's also moving in the right direction as far as the RPG genre goes, in that character progression is being projected into the gameworld and off the stats screens. That's how it should be.

Clearly a troll, I shall smite him with my firebolt spell!

Perks aren't enough of a permanent decision for you? Alright, so you can change what you want to be in the first 10 levels or so , though you gimp your character doing so if you've already selected perks for the old specialization you were interested in. So what? I honestly don't see your point.

Bethesda has worked hard to create an open world where you can do what you want. So, do what you want. Make up house rules.

Remember, Bethesda can't keep making games if it doesn't make enough money to support it. Versatility and open-mindedness GET sales. Once again, the idea is that you can do what you want, when you want, but you don't have to change your mind, you don't have to exploit that particular flaw in the game, it isn't FORCING any of these flaws upon you, save for the lack of stats. You want a birth-sign? Choose a Sign from a Stone and stick with it for the entire game. Want cross-specialization to be harder? Don't do it until, say, level 40.

I would prefer a deeper statistical experience, and more complexity. Maybe a mod will fix it, I don't know. But I'm happy with the game as it is, and if these sacrifices were neccessary to make the next Elder Scrolls game even better, than I don't mind it at all.

You mean perks? No, they aren't. The idea isn't bad in itself, but besides the fact that the perk trees are HORRIBLY organised, they are not a replacement for attributes. Attributes are umbrellas. Perks are specific abilities. Real life: Use a weapon, get good at that weapon and get stronger so that it's easier to use other weapons as well, even though you aren't more skilled with them. TES: Use a weapon, never get stronger so you will not be able to break the skin of a sleeping peasant with a greatsword even if you are the worlds best longsword user who should have the strength of a lion. Perks cannot replace attributes in this case, they simply specialise a skill you already have, they don't branch across skills like attributes like strength does.

'Cause Morrowind was so damn intelligent. LOLOLOLOL. I beat that game when I was 11.

Catering to kids you are joking arn't you? So what if they have removed some RPG elements from the game to make it more mainstream, I am a RPG'er going back to the 80's with D&D and I too have played all the TES series going back to Arena in 94 and I think you are mad! Lets just sit there and pick at what has been removed and not look at the positive elements that has the game so widely acclaimed! You act like Bethesda has a personal vendetta against you and therefore have made the game with that in mind! Nostalgia is a funny thing, yes I loved Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion but IMO Skyrim is the best in the series. Your loss you are in the .3 percent of people who are too busy looking at what is missing from the game compared to Oblivion to enjoy it, of course removing elements makes the next game that much worse doesn't it?!!

I have been PC gaming since Arena too and now I play on one of those 'kids' toys... the PS3, I believe you need to grow up with the times, things have changed from the Nintendo days, people want to be able to game without spending money upgrading every few years, not to mention gettin things to work, I am one of those people. Btw Skyrim looks fantastic on the PS3 and I have never had so much fun in a game to date! Storyline? Oblivions storyline was pretty lame although I enjoyed playing it, like I said nostalgia is a funny thing, things from the past always seem better after your done and dusted with them.

What the hell am I typing all of this for, I am missing out on valuable Skyrim time !

You are just getting older

Just go play another game.

Sure, because a system where a sword being three inches shorter makes me hopelessly inept at using it was infinitely more sensible (i.e., Morrowind).

Strawman is straw.

and I will just shrug and go back playing Skyrim with a smile, knowing that at the end of the day I choose what opinion matters, not you, not Bethesda, I do, your just one person of billions, so why should I give a flying F-word why you think I′m stupid becuase I dont agree with you?

I'm an older gamer too, but with Skyrim it's my first Elder Scroll game.
So I cannot say anything about the stuff from this threads-creator, BUT
if the last part ist true, about the dwarfen items, then I must absolutely support his thread, since it's a hell of a fail if something like this happens!

greetings from an old mmo veteran

That isn't MY crappy definition of what an RPG is to ME. That is what an RPG is. A ROLE PLAYING GAME. Dude, seriously... just because most RPG games are heavily reliant on stats, doesn't mean they all are, or all should be, or that stats are part of the "definition" of a role-playing game.

Holy [censored] you're dumb. Have you ever played any pen & paper RPGs? (And if you did, you probably only played D&D lmao)

Stats aren't the core of an RPG. Far from it. They're just a crutch to help you decide the outcome of a particular action. The core of an RPG is a good dungeon master. If you think numbers means immersiveness, you're pretty dumb.

I agree with some of your criticisms. I mean I want spears back. I don't like the fact that you can craft Daedric armor and miss the times when there was only two sets available in the whole game. But come on. Numbers the core of an RPG? You must be that boring player in any pen & paper session. You know, the one that sleeps with the handbook below their pillow and contests every single thing the dungeon master says quoting every single stupid rule and nitpicking everything under the sun. I'd hate to play with someone like you.

Also, Dwemer armor was pretty common in Morrowind. Not Skyrim-level common, but common after all.

Actually, thank you OP. You've actually made a thread so terrible I'd rather do the dishes than read it. Off I go!

boring OP is boring...