What I feel was wrong with Skyrim

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 1:49 pm

Firstly, calm down. Most people stop reading a post if it has more than 2 "[censored]"s and isn't funny. Secondly, I have played some of the previous games (mostly Morrowind). Thirdly, what d'you mean by "RPG elements"? 'Cause they're there. They may not be like Oblivion (and besides this bit, I won't get into asking why you think it was better), but the game is an RPG, sorry buddy.

As for the littler things, like joining hella factions or smithing Dwemer - I agree, but again, it's an RPG. If you don't like it, don't do it. It's literally your universe - play it as you see legitimate (and/or find mods that fit your style).

And in all seriousness. In the future, if you want others to take you seriously, don't rage-post. Drafts are your best friend. Cheers.

You are right, I will agree. I should have drafted. But it's three A.M. and I was tired and angry. Who wouldn't be at what is becoming of their favorite video game franchise?

Most of you obviously don't realize I clearly played the game to fruition. So obviously I cared enough about it or liked it enough to get through it. It's playability is not in question. It's the obvious direction that Bethesda is taking the Elder Scrolls in. A direction from an RPG world that had depth, and class to something for kids to play once through as they drift along to other video games every month.

I agree with many of the Ops points but not nearly so strongly.

I also think its pathetic when people flame those who like stats.

Stats can represent your character and skill in the game (much like they did in Morrowind)
You like loot? Stats are no different. They just relate to your characters skills as opposed to what the character is using.
They are a visual representation of what your playing time so far as achieved and a reminder of what path you chose and which paths you ignored.
Same as loot right? You like shiny new wizard hats and swords of death, doom and cream tea because they make you feel more powerfull. But when you find a sword of death, doom and cream tea + 1 you use that. Not because it looks better, but because its stats are better.

Same idea with character stats. So all you loot loving stat hating flamers? Shush!

Having said all that i dont think TES is dying. Its going to a place i might not be able to follow but i am getting a considerable amount of enjoyment from the current iteration. Yes i preferred Morrowind blah blah but Skyrim, for all its faults, is still a pretty phenomenal game IMO.

Its just with each iteration i become more and more weary about the direction Bethesda is following.

Like Bioware i feel they are becoming to action focused with too few RPG elements to keep my interesting. (Bioware being a step ahead of Bethesda in this case as i havent liked their games for a while)

Thank you. Like I said up there. I still played Skyrim and enjoyed it to a certain extent. But I find myself, and many others I know who love the Elder Scrolls who share my pain, that it's getting lackluster. It's losing what made it unique to, as someone said earlier, sell itself to a larger crowd to make more money.
User avatar
Lovingly
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:36 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 10:56 am

To be fair I totally agree with all the points the OP makes, I still love Skyrim though.

I think the key thing that bothers me is why do things have to be removed at all, all the talk is about streamlining (by the devs) and catering for the masses (on these boards) but these things could all still be in Skyrim - at least then the people that want to play with stats still could - I don't think this would have stopped people/casual gamers buying the game, would it?
User avatar
Code Affinity
 
Posts: 3325
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:11 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:14 am


15. ABSOLUTELY NO STATS AND RPG ELEMENTS


Sorry bud, but you have no idea what makes an RPG. You think it's all about clinging to old mechanics that suited the genre back when the technology wasn't there to do anything better? Character progression needs to be torn brutally from the stats screens and placed into the gameworld where it belongs, with choices that involve richer interation, consequences, action recognition and plot direction/trajectory.

Player choice and progression in an RPG should be all about what you do next in the gameworld, and not about what you do next on stats/inventory screens.

Skyrim is a huge step in that direction.
User avatar
El Goose
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:02 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Yeah...um. The Op is clearly a troll. All he is doing is putting people down and insulting them instead of being open to feedback and other people's opinions. Grow up Op. Also, The Elder Scrolls a dying series? Yeah...um...no. Just no.
User avatar
Shelby McDonald
 
Posts: 3497
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:29 pm

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 12:43 am


But at least Oblivion was able to capture your attention in regards to the story.

Hahaha, no.
User avatar
Marta Wolko
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:51 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:02 pm

OP must have been a long time fan to have signed up today. Your focusing just on the negative aspects. And claiming it isnt a RPG because you say so is a dumb arguement, truth is there is no set guidelines for what makes a game. I call troll, someone who comes onto the offical games forums and complains only about what a game lacks seems to fit that title.
User avatar
biiibi
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:39 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 5:43 pm

Skyrim was dumbed down to appeal to a wider consumer range in order to increase unit sales.
Well, the worst part isn't that they dumbed it down, but that Oblivion was already a very dumbed down version of Morrowind. So yeah, they dumbed down a dumbed down game. Skyrim practically treats every player like they're autistic.

But unlike Oblivion, at least they added a couple things (dual-wield, perks) to make up for some of what they took out.
User avatar
Makenna Nomad
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:05 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 3:15 pm

I have a funny feeling the majority of the detractors posting here are playing on Consoles and/or Skyrim is their first TES game.

I feel for you OP. The mix of horror and disbelief I felt when Todd first said "no more major skills! you can be who you want to be!" I /facepalmed so hard.

OP must have been a long time fan to have signed up today. Your focusing just on the negative aspects. And claiming it isnt a RPG because you say so is a dumb arguement, truth is there is no set guidelines for what makes a game. I call troll, someone who comes onto the offical games forums and complains only about what a game lacks seems to fit that title.

None of what you said changes the fact that all of what OP said is 100% correct.
User avatar
Rob Smith
 
Posts: 3424
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:30 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 10:13 pm

As a long time player of TeS games (started with Daggerfall and played through them all) I partially agree with you, specifically on the part of the stats system and the user interface. It has obviously been dumbed down to cater for a larger audience and - indeed - we lost some vital abilities, like spellmaking, levitation, recall, water walking spell, etc.

What I do not agree with is that the series is overall worsening or even "dying"! Skyrim is, in my opinion, a big improvement over Oblivion. The awkward level scaling of Oblivion is now better implemented, although still lacking. Voice acting has been improved a lot, which makes a lot of the NPCs more lifelike and "believable". And the overall atmosphere is a lot closer to that of Morrowind, which is a good thing.

I also don't agree about the emotionless storyline, although I've personally not gotten far into the main quest line. The world is full of little stories, personal disputes and political struggles. You just have to get into them by talking to NPCs, reading notes and books and sometimes stick your nose where it doesn't belong.

I don't mean this to be rude, but: Are you sure it's not nostalgia that's clouding your judgement?
User avatar
Rhysa Hughes
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:00 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:12 pm

'Cause Morrowind was so damn intelligent. LOLOLOLOL. I beat that game when I was 11.

What's that got to do with anything?
User avatar
Markie Mark
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:24 am

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 12:21 am

IT'S ALL RIGHT, EVERYBODY. Once I finish this game of Jumanji, all the trolls will disappear.
User avatar
Cesar Gomez
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:06 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Go play Arena, you are crazy. Skyrim is the best Bethesda game ever, and the best game in History, it does have everything the previous games had, just a 1000 times more stuff, it confuses conservative people.


"COLOR AND AUDIO MOTIONPICTURES?! WHAT IS THIS MADNESS!"
User avatar
quinnnn
 
Posts: 3503
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:11 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 6:00 pm

Well, for your information I have played Daggerfal quite a bit, and Morrowind a whole lot, but I stil think Skyrim is a better RPG that either of them. Then again I'm not stuck in some narrow-minded opinion were RPGs must have attrubutes and dice-rolls in the gameplay to be an RPG. Personally I feel like Skyrim have gievn more options for making your character unique with the perks and selection of health, magica and stamina upon leveling.
User avatar
Logan Greenwood
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:41 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 8:41 am

Stats don't make an RPG, RPG stands for Role Playing Game, I roleplay as much as I can in Skyrim and did so with all the previous TES titles too! So Bethesda streamlining the system hasn't affected me one bit, I still choose my charachter and what sort of charachter he is going to be, good... evil etc and I stick to it.
User avatar
Jenna Fields
 
Posts: 3396
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:36 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 12:21 pm

Imo, the guys who want to dumb this genre down are those who want to see it stick to outdated mechanics that were used to simulate complexity. Take away that crutch and put complexity into the gameworld.
User avatar
Zoe Ratcliffe
 
Posts: 3370
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:45 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 10:01 pm

What's that got to do with anything?
How can a game be dumbed down when it's predecessors weren't intelligent to begin with?
User avatar
Crystal Birch
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:34 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 9:04 am

I have a funny feeling the majority of the detractors posting here are playing on Consoles and/or Skyrim is their first TES game.

Well you'd be wrong. ;) Also if you think there is something wrong with people playing on the consoles then you're an idiot. Since when does someones opinion reflect their gameplay lifestyle?
User avatar
Laura Tempel
 
Posts: 3484
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:53 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:24 pm

How can a game be dumbed down when it's predecessors weren't intelligent to begin with?

Pretty much this. Some people have some serious rose-tinted glasses going on. I think they just mad because now video games are being played by more people, so they don't really belong to the cute little subculture anymore.
User avatar
Stephani Silva
 
Posts: 3372
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:11 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 12:46 pm

Sure, because a system where a sword being three inches shorter makes me hopelessly inept at using it was infinitely more sensible (i.e., Morrowind).

Strawman is straw.

No actually that doesn't make sense. The combining of daggers and short swords does make sense.

However the combining of any fashion those with Maces and Axes do not. Different fighting styles. Hell there's a book in the game itself that details how unique fighting with a mace is compared to other styles of combat.


and I will just shrug and go back playing Skyrim with a smile, knowing that at the end of the day I choose what opinion matters, not you, not Bethesda, I do, your just one person of billions, so why should I give a flying F-word why you think I′m stupid becuase I dont agree with you?

You're right. If you think fighting with a mace equates with fighting with a dagger you are a fool. I'f stabbed at people with an M16 before. It's far different than trying to use it as a club. Not to you apparently.

The point is that if I'm in a dungeon and my mace breaks ( oh wait it can't because items don't have durability in skyrim, but you can smith them!), I do NOT want to be able to pick up a bandits short sword and be able to use it effectively. It destroys immersion for ME


Actually, thank you OP. You've actually made a thread so terrible I'd rather do the dishes than read it. Off I go!

Lol you ignored the fact that implying maces = daggers is stupid. Have fun with your dishes.

To be fair I totally agree with all the points the OP makes, I still love Skyrim though.

I think the key thing that bothers me is why do things have to be removed at all, all the talk is about streamlining (by the devs) and catering for the masses (on these boards) but these things could all still be in Skyrim - at least then the people that want to play with stats still could - I don't think this would have stopped people/casual gamers buying the game, would it?

That's the point a friend of mine made. Would it honestly have been that hard to include and fix everything I and other people have complained about? I didn't make that list alone. Many aspects (except the graphics) felt rushed.
User avatar
Russell Davies
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:01 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:42 am

We just have to accept that complexity no longer is a positive trait in a game, in the eyes of developers or their target audience.
Accessibility = more customers = more money.
They don't gain much from keeping players interested for a long time (except for buying expansion packs). If you buy the game and play it for a week or if you buy the game and play for a year is the same in Bethesdas eyes.
Flashiness, accessibility, action. That's where the games are today. Depth, options, complexity is a dead virtue.
User avatar
jennie xhx
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:28 am

Post » Mon May 14, 2012 12:37 am

Change will always happen , it just seems you want things to remain the same, though refining is better you would also need to change things. Otherwise you would complain its the same game etc.....
User avatar
Gavin boyce
 
Posts: 3436
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:19 pm

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 4:38 pm

op is right with a lot of things but we have to take into account a few things:

- we are used to super fency games nowadays...thats what you compare every aspect of a game always too - the best game within that respect you played...so thats why every new game has to be better to remotely cause any reacation

- games get more "accessible" which basically means they get tuend down and simplified so that every idiot can play them to sell more copies

- story often gets left behind cause for the casual gamer accessibility, graphics adn gameplay seems mroe important

its sad but thats the way it is...rpg players are a dying race...look at how much cod mw3 sold - that game made more sales THEN ANY ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCT OF ANY KIND BEFORE (more then titanic movie!!)...so you see...effort goes where the money goes...

you have to hope for the independent developpers which can attack the field from behind

mount and blade is a very good example - m&b warband is probably the most fun game i have every played in my life....and its an indi
User avatar
Jesus Duran
 
Posts: 3444
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:16 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 12:50 pm

As a long time player of TeS games (started with Daggerfall and played through them all) I partially agree with you, specifically on the part of the stats system and the user interface. It has obviously been dumbed down to cater for a larger audience and - indeed - we lost some vital abilities, like spellmaking, levitation, recall, water walking spell, etc.

What I do not agree with is that the series is overall worsening or even "dying"! Skyrim is, in my opinion, a big improvement over Oblivion. The awkward level scaling of Oblivion is now better implemented, although still lacking. Voice acting has been improved a lot, which makes a lot of the NPCs more lifelike and "believable". And the overall atmosphere is a lot closer to that of Morrowind, which is a good thing.

I also don't agree about the emotionless storyline, although I've personally not gotten far into the main quest line. The world is full of little stories, personal disputes and political struggles. You just have to get into them by talking to NPCs, reading notes and books and sometimes stick your nose where it doesn't belong.

I don't mean this to be rude, but: Are you sure it's not nostalgia that's clouding your judgement?

Honestly yes. It is possible that nostalgia is clouding my judgement. But I got my point across and started an argument/discussion. The only way something can get better is to call out its flaws.


Well, for your information I have played Daggerfal quite a bit, and Morrowind a whole lot, but I stil think Skyrim is a better RPG that either of them. Then again I'm not stuck in some narrow-minded opinion were RPGs must have attrubutes and dice-rolls in the gameplay to be an RPG. Personally I feel like Skyrim have gievn more options for making your character unique with the perks and selection of health, magica and stamina upon leveling.

How the hell does less options allow for a more unique character?

How can a game be dumbed down when it's predecessors weren't intelligent to begin with?

Yeah, because it wasn't quite a common thing to hear that you shouldn't play Morrowind because it was too un-linear and complex.
User avatar
Elisha KIng
 
Posts: 3285
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:18 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 7:24 pm

Skyrim has been out not even a week. Its depths and intricacies have already been seriously, fully, and objectively explored and players can now declare, yea verily, that Skyrim is thoroughly unbalanced and broken in precisely this and that way. I am skeptical.
User avatar
Cat Haines
 
Posts: 3385
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:27 am

Post » Sun May 13, 2012 11:08 am

oh, hai, here's another member who played all of the TES games, and I'm here to tell you to get down from your high horse, and try to remember right.

So the older games were much better, huh?

Because Arena and Daggerfall had humanoid beast races too. And of course, races cannot be unique just by having different feet... Whiskers, fangs, scales... Who cares, they need to walk the dinosaur.
So you don't need a requirement to join a guild? So the test to enter the college os just for fun, anyone can do that? Even your dumb warrior can easily pickpocket people to join the thieves guild?
Oh yeah, skills, health, magicka and stamina are not RPG elements. Remember arena and the depth of it's skill system, oops, it doesn't have those, so I guess it's not a true RPG either. Oh, silly me, you can live without skills, attributes are the one that mean EVERYTHING.
So the defeat of Dagoth Ur was moe important because... Oh, right, the great houses were truly deep and complex, even though they did absolutely nothing if you entered a rival House's hall. Yeah, saving all those people who did nothing at all just picking their nose, looking for "that slave" felt much more satisfying.

More to come...
User avatar
Andrew Lang
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:50 pm

PreviousNext

Return to V - Skyrim