I also don't hate DA2, it certainty doesn't measure up to Origins but it still is a decent game despite the cut corners. Also to speak briefly on the DLC I'm surprised so many are up in arms about it. EA/Bioware has done this with their last three games.

DA:Origins - Shale
DA2 - Sebastian Vael
ME2 - Zaeed

All the extra companions are free for those who purchase the CE.

Hmm, I didn't notice with Shale, because the Mac digital version came with it standard (perhaps the equivalent of the PC "digital deluxe" version, if there was one?). And Zaeed was part of the standard edition "free" Cerberus pack - i.e, the online pass. Can't say anything about DA2, never got it.

I'm not paying for a Jamaican accented alien.

Not worth 10 for me. I'm just glad they gave us the choice to keep such a horribly voice acted character out.

But in game cut content just so vthey can make a quick buck....despicable.

They didn't cut the content. The game was done months ago for its original release date. TO keep their programmers working through the testing/polish phase they got them to work on the squad mate dlc. Simple. I imagine at some point in the concept phase before they write a single line of code they considered putting him in the game, but decided he would best be fit as a side character. Other than the initial choice to scrap him, no work was done until the game itself was finished being programmed.

Though I doubt my words will sway you, they haven't affected anyone yet.

Incorrect about Shale and Zaeed. They were both free with any new copy of DAO and ME2 respectively.

This sort of stuff really [censored]s me off.

If the [censored] content is made before he game is released then it should be included in the original game. I really hate EA, they rob their customers blind it's basically the same as taxes.... legal theft

Yes I feel strongly about this kind of crap

this is much ado about nothing
they promised an extra DLC to those who bought the collectors edition last year
so to those that that are not happy about it
do not buy the game.. your loss
i bought the collectors because i knew i would get extra stuff upon release AND I PAID FOR IT
so if you do not have the collectors why should you get it the same as those of us who did

fyi
they were not going to announce the DLC butl
xbox live 'accidentally' posted it
but for those of us who bought the collectors
we were promised the DLC-just not told what it entails
thats why bought it and for the robot dog vand pais an extra 20 bucks to get it
so for those who did not get the collectors why should you get it for free
when i paid for it

i am much older than most so i guess i simply do not see things the same way as some do
i do not assume i am entitled to things, just because..

and they also did this DLC so they could keep those people working and not lay them off
but maybe their having a job is not important to you
it is to me
i buy games new for that reason and since i can afford to i buy games for other people as well

The thing is, you didn't get extra stuff, you got the game they made. People who pay for the normal edition don't get the game they made, they get some of it. It's very clever, charging ￡50 for a ￡40 game, and getting the customers who paid ￡50 to defend the practice.

No it's not, EA screwed over a lot of gamers because they inserted this into the collector's edition (Which is basically sold out, if your not on PC) and not the regular edition. Not to mention that the Character could bring so much in terms of lore into the series and the place you go back too, I won't spoil it but if your a huge fan of Mass Effect your going to be ticked that this wasn't included in game or at least as an online pass type deal. Add to the fact that you typically have to pay 20 more for the collector's edition and yeah it's a huge slap in the face to gamers/fans.

I've explained like 50k million times already. They made the DLC when the game was done and going through testing/certification. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115997-BioWare-Defends-Mass-Effect-3-Launch-Day-DLC

You've paid for the complete game, the DLC is completely separate from it. If they decided to not make it right away it would have been the first one they eventually made anyways. I'm not saying EA is always right or trustworthy, same with Bioware. But this time, from a development stand point their defense makes perfect sense. I'm sure as hell not wasting 3--6 months of a development teams time doing nothing if I can have them start to make DLC. I would have to lay them off during that time which is a big hassle for no reason. People want DLC, so why not make it? If DLC as a concept wasn't popular, there's good odds we would have never seen the Prothean. He just isn't all that important to the story, and I can prove it if people don't believe me. Though expect spoilers ahead.

Edit
They knew they would have some sort of DLC done for launch, it just so happens the CE got it. Months ago they started to warn people to pre-order. It's 5 dollars and a quick trip out of the way. Just go and lay that 5 down and save yourself a lot of trouble. I believe I even came here a month or so ago and started to comment in one of the older threads the CE is going fast, get them while you can. "Limited" does not mean infinite. At this point with all the dumb going around I think this is just a case of natural selection. The fastest and smartest bought the collectors editions way in advance. The greedy bought 3, and sell the other 2 for 300-400 dollars.

Edit2
http://i.imgur.com/m77S3.png Don't be alarmed, but I'm taking your mind. Source of the image is a forum posted on the Bioware forums by the name of LumoOfCole. I'm not sure if he made it or not, but there it is.

I still think any content that is made and finished before release should be part of the release, That it was made after the game was supposedly done and in a testing phase shouldn't matter. The fact that they managed to finish the DLC long before the game actually came out shows that it could've just as easily been part of the main game.

I bought the Deus Ex HR Augmented edition which included a extra small mission (later released for 2 euros) containing an interesting character (from the first Deus Ex game) and I disagreed with the way they handled that too, it should've been part of the main game.

I think that collector's editions should contain only physical items, soundtracks, and for ingame items simple reskins or other cosmetic stuff at most.

But we can argue all week so I'll just leave that as an opinion, which isn't going to change based on that excuse.

Game development doesn't work like that. It's not a single team working on stuff. It's teams of people doing different things. If they don't keep them on the payroll to make something they leave. There is nothing to make in that 3-6 month period of testing/certification ect. So then you let the team go. Then the team isn't likely to sit around on their buts for months on end with a family to feed. So your great development team responsible for the game getting great reviews is shattered more or less. It then costs more time to hire them all back and then start the DLC. Not to mention more money meaning the DLC budget will be smaller.

The DLC isn't actually done yet, oddly enough. Due to how game development works it's probably sitll undergoing some last minute testing and stuff. It uses its own resources during development. There's no way in hell it could have ever been in the main game, because the budget simply didn't allow for it.

Also just because you think something doesn't mean that's how the facts of life are. I could think the planet should be red and the sky orange, but that's not going to make it happen. People have ZERO entitlement to this DLC. None what so ever. I'm normally an EA hater, I went out of my way to sandboxie origin and I do all these precautions with them. I didn't trust them with the DLC enough to go and research what they're saying. So far it all seems fairly legit. This is th eone time EA/Bioware is in the right. You might not like that, and that's fine. No one says you need optional content in the game either.

Just look at the picture I posted above in edit2, it will explain it better.

Edit
Do note, I'm only talking about this DLC. I'm sure there are more shady DLC's that literally were cut from the game. Those developers should be ashamed of themselves.

Think of this as something they developed in their spare time while waiting on certification/testing. Also once a game is certified the content is generally locked down except for extreme exceptions. It's a legal thing that Bioware/no one can control other than the lawyers/whoever is in charge of it. So even if Bioware decided to be nice and give it out for free, at this point it's very unlikely that they could add it to the base game. They would need to add it as a free download, but because of xbox's policies on free dlc it wouldn't happen. The project 10 dollar DLC from ME2 was "free", no it wasn't. You bought it with a new copy, and hence it was a loophole in the system. There's very good reasons why things don't get put up for free more often on the xbox, it costs tons of money. Even patches can run upwards of 50k + dollars to put on a console.

It would be great if they were nice and decided to give out free DLC. That would give them rep points with the community for sure, but at the end of the day your not entitled to it. This is more of a neutral/stance. They definitely don't owe anyone anything for the day 1 DLC except those who buy it. On the scale of "good" vs "bad" this falls squarely within neutral.

On that theory, once a game is "done", they aren't allowed to work on anything until it's released. Even if they have staff sitting around. Even if they have a long-term production plan that lays out what is "game" and what is "extra". That's inefficient. Which makes it poor business.

Then I hope the 10 dollar DLC gives a reasonable amount of content, because if that's what it costed to keep the DLC development team going and still turn a profit then the mission had better be of decent length.

Not 1/5th of the game's own length obviously, that's unreasonable, but fairly lengthy nonetheless.

Squad mate integrated into the entire 30+ hours of gameplay (this is a lot of work), it's own mission, 1 weapon, and 1 skin for all characters in the game. This is in addition to the skins the collectors edition people get. Thank you for being reasonable. It's always makes me feel good if even one person starts "getting" it and how a bit of game development works. At the end of the day it's more of a personal choice if you like that facet of the game enough to get him. I can say he isn't critical to the story, but would help with the main game and could be considering interesting. Though YMMV.

Gamgee, do you work for EA/Bioware? If not, then how do you know how their game development "works"? Just curious.

I took a film course in college. I got some idea of how development goes down. While the two fields can be vastly different, I'm getting the vibe from how they're talking that they aren't messing around. Not to mention I can see how it maximizes profit for them, without actually being unfair to consumers. This is probably something any company would want. Why would they have to lie? Not to mention I write a book and know how conception can be so whimsical and changed so often. You just blurt out any ideas at all, like those brain storm sessions back in grade school. A lot of ideas just get shot out and discarded quickly until something that works is found. The best of that brain storming session MIGHT be used as DLC. The dlc squad mate coming to mind. Not to mention when concepting you get all these grand ideas.

Like oh lets go here in the hymalyas and shoot a scene where we explode 20 blimps and the movie hero snowboards down the mountain shooting people surfing bears down the mountainside. Now it might be awesome, but how relevant owuld that be if the plot is more structured on realims or drama/action? So these really cool ideas sometimes just have to be axed ot bring the final product into a coherent form. The hidden squad mate is COOL, but what does he had add to a game about all the characters we already love? He would just take up time and get in the way of resolving plots. Budget is only so big, and there's bigger things fans will fry us for than cutting him out. Since he is a good workable idea maybe later on down the line when some of the team free's up lets work on him as DLC.

ect.

It's a mix of researching/reading developer commentaries. Not just from Bioware, but other companies with similar processes. It's a lot of reading between the lines to figure it out. I had it mostly figured out until today when the helpful picture came along from someone who actually has some connection to a development team and confirmed my suspicion. Not to mention they aren't connected to EA. So what reason would they have for lying? Then my very short time spent in film classes also got me into the mindset of how to create. It's a lot of work with tons of chaotic mess and people running everywhere. I got the same sense of feeling form them. So shared experience, however minor it is. Then my book is always going back and forth changing this and that, it's how I create. It's also how they create. Ultimately though you need some sort of trust in the day that the sky is going to be blue tomorrow and now infared. And that not every last bit of information ever fed to you is a lie. How would you function?

Edit
One of the biggest clues this is probably truthful is the fact that after a game is complete the dev team is usually laid off. It's too expensive to keep them during downtime. I believe Cynicalbrit on youtube did a video on this. He explained you could have two teams. One is doing concept for a new production, and the other is working on a new game. A cycle of teams if you will to keep making games. Which makes perfect sense. He was pretty much dead on in thinking with a few things that I don't think he or I realized companies did until now. Just last December a lot of game developers got laid off in time for the holidays. No games being made, kind of a quiet time once all the big games launch. It's a big industry problem. The fact that this dlc model helps mitigate it a little bit is great, not to mention if you can afford it it lets consumers get more of what they like.

I have no words.

You haven't this entire time. So how this is any different. Why be so blatantly pointing it out now?

Edit
A completely different style of game development is Valve's style. I'm not entirely sure how to label it. But they keep a core team year round and work on games slowly with no development date. They put out the very occasional game that sells super well over a long time. Or they get mods/other dev studious and take them under their wing to let them do their thing. It's completely and vastly different from the regimented work day's at a place like Bioware. They encourage taking time and doing things creatively over just getting a game out. It's a lot harder to use this method and be successful for the record.

Edit
Why do I feel like an alien trying to describe creativity to people?

Would it be possible for those of you who want to offer constructive critisism of the game series to head over to the other Bioware thread? It seems a shame that the last 2 pages or so have become about critiquing the series rather than people talking about the aspects of the game they enjoy. As there's an entire thread dedicated to Bioware's business practices it might make more sense to discuss that aspect of it there?

Probably a good idea. This thread is almost at the post limit, so maybe whoever opens the next one can link to the http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1352525-biowareea-recurring-fiascoes/ in the OP.

Yes please do, this topic is getting derailed here.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1352633-mass-effect-55/