to put the fun back in the game, i play my pure mage now with no enchanting.

It is slightly less perk efficient etc, but here is the 2 key points:

as long as you stay focussed on raising destruction constantly(not powergaming it though) by combat usage or purchase of training, then you are usually ok for damage/mana till early level20s.
AT THAT POINT VENDORS AND LOOT DROPS START DROPPING -15% OR -17% DESTRUCTION GEAR QUITE REGULARLY. YOU HAVE FOUR SLOTS, FILL THEM WITH THE BEST DESTRO GEAR YOU CAN.

AS YOU FURTHER LEVEL UP DESTRUCTION THE QUALITY OF THE VENDOR/LOOT GEAR RELEVANT TO THIS SKILL GOES UP, SO YOU JUST KEEP REPLACING WITH BEST AVAILABLE. you use your other slots for whatever you want. maybe switch out to other gear as necessary, c'mon a bit of inventory management never hurt, you are gimping your fun with level 100 dual enchants...

by level 30+ you should easily have 75% off destro spell costs, and your -50% cost perks are more than enough on all other mage skills anyway.
as you raise destro from 75->100 the gear availiable rises to -25%. you can get 0% with four slots without any enchanting. As for other skills, well, alteration spells are pre-combat, illusion spells are deaggroers and resto- only novice perk needed. destro and conj are the only ones you need to seriously put cost reduction perks into, no big deal. is a fair trade with 8 perks into enchanting for all the adventure svcking gheyness that brings.

I found this essential to putting the fun of loot discovery/earning money back into the game. cause i found the enchanting route left me with all the best possible gear by level 25 and the double slot enchanting made everything just too simple to resist stack/ cost decrease. raising to master doesn't help this at all tbh, just makes the game tedious.

btw, for custom difficulty where enemies do more damage and you do too, but without the tedious damage soaks, roll with pure mage no health increases/buffs and no armour/resists whatsoever or alteration armour effects/perks...on Adept or Expert. I found that gave required difficulty and yet avoided tedium as i was still "awesome" . If you avoid enchanting and alchemy, and stick to shop items, a non-sneak attack archer with legendary daedric bow does 200 HP per hit, at lower RoF that your damage selectable and armour ignoring 200 dmg per hit expert spells. 2H do 200per hit but no range, Dual wield do more but you are locked stationary. all suffer from enemy armour effects quite a bit. tbh the only issue is that spells don't get a sneak bonus, which would be fun. Even at level 50 , 200dmg ignoring armour, with stagger is better than almost any other direct weapon in the game(max smithed) in open combat. only enchanting/alchemy/smithing combos break this. Doing more than one craft skill is a bit lame for me personally though. power attacks and sneak attacks are available outside of magic, but destro has range, speed and stagger, can switch to weakness exploiting for extra damage, and ignores armour. It is balanced fine, the only issues is that the lower and mid level spells are more "interesting to use" than the higher lvl ones(which you rely on later). And the problem with AoE aggroing friendlies , or killing them...but that adds flavour i spose, so no issue there.

tldr: use shop bought items and loot, pay for some destro training at times and don't obsess over perk point efficiency. you will still be able to perma destro everything eventually, and along the way will have enough mana to get through anything without too much issue, and retain some minor challenge to mana conservation. YOU WILL ENJOY THE GAME MORE THAN IF YOU USE ENCHANTING, TRUST ME.

...and i didn't even mention that responsible use of alchemy(no cross pollination with enchanting etc) and some hunting for alchemy gear and you can near double your damage to "easymode" on any difficulty setting. personally i couldn't be bothered with alchemy, didn't need it.

I would like to point out one thing. I did not follow my own guide. I played the game without any real enchanting up to about level 25 or so (once I became archmage). At that point my fight against a dragon priest (during mage quest line) pointed out the weakness of mana regen and using potions. It was frustrating so I figured out how to fix it. By focusing on getting my destruction costs down to ~80% I found I liked destruction magic alot better because I didnt have to fire off 5 shots and then run away or potion up. I still need to run when my health is low, but not because I am out of mana all the time.

The guide is here to help people understand the parts of the game that are keys for survival and those perks/spells/stats that may not be so useful and thus avoid if you are having trouble.

If you aim for 75%-90% destruction cost reduction and pick all the novice->master perks you should be very well off for dealing with most combat situations the game throws at you especially if you combine it with the other schools of magic.

Once the CK gets released I plan on making a magic balance mod that I hope will fix the weak perks and spells and nerf some of the overpowered things. I think bethesda got much closer to an great magic system in Skyrim (much better than all other elder scrolls games), but it just needs a little bit more to be perfect.

I have several questions before I can firm up my Mage build, and this seems to be the best place to ask them.

How do Fortify enchants and Mana Reduction Perks work together? For instance, would 2 x Fortify Restoration enchants (for -50% mana cost) and the Expert Restoration Perk combine additively, for free Grand Healing casts? Or do they combine multiplicatively, for -75% mana cost?

4 x Fortify Destruction enchants is a given, but I'm not sure what to do with the other 4 Fortify slots. I assume I should go for free casting in the second most useful spell school in battle; is that Conjuration? Alteration?

From reading this thread, it looks like Conjuration and Illusion are the two main options for crowd control. If I perk Conjuration, am I free to avoid Illusion? I've never really liked spells like Fury, Calm, etc.

Am I correct in assuming that a mage either has to perk heavily into Alteration or wear armor? I was initially going to drop a few points into Elven Smithing and Light Armor, but after looking over the Alteration spells, there's too much useful stuff there to not heavily perk the tree, so I might as well try to get by with Ebonyskin. With Stability and Dual Casting, it grants 300 armor and lasts for 3 minutes, no? How much mitigation does 300 armor afford? Any problems with the buff expiring at inopportune times?

Has anyone tried the Atronach talent + Atronach Standing Stone combo? I was planning on doing this until I read that it can cause your Conjuration spells to fail (they apparently target yourself, and can be "absorbed" occasionally for no effect).

Most posters in this thread seem to think that Novice Restoration, Regeneration, and Recovery are the only necessary perks in Restoration. Why? Also, is there any reason to take Respite?

The consensus seems to be that Destruction and Alteration are the only schools worth taking dual casting in. Is that accurate?

Anyway, http://skyrimcalculator.com/#10715. Feedback is much appreciated. Thanks-

From my testing it appears Fortify Magicka School enchants are additive with each other, and multiplicative with the cost reduction perks. For example, with two 25% fortify enchants, a 500 magicka base spell would be reduced to 250 magicka from the perk, then 125 magicka after enchants.

On higher difficulties having armor is really helpful. 300 armor should be around 50% mitigation, and on master difficulty it prevented me from getting 1-shot by high level archers (I would get 2 shot instead). The expiration graphic is pretty easy to see so it's not that big of a deal to recast it.

I won't comment on magicka absorb and conjuration because I don't know the details of that, but with the 30% from alteration and the 50% from breton I didn't notice myself absorbing my summons.

Respite is useful for unlimited sprinting, but doesn't have much other use for a pure mage. The lower level spells are better healing per magicka spent, and since you probably won't have any reduce restoration enchants it might be just worth it to stick with novice healing.

Destruction reduction is the one that's most important, since it'll probably make up 75% of your casts in combat.

I agree with the no crafting builds, more fun for every play style. At the very least, avoiding crafting perks (and avoiding smithing period) seems necessary for any sort of difficulty.

The cost reduction enchants were a great addition imo, I just wish Bethesda had capped them at 20% each, not 25%... or restricted the enchant to fewer slots.

And in response to OP, destruction could use some more enhancement perks, but +1000% damage in huge +50% intervals is waaaaay too much... it would be sad if they broke magic scaling to compensate for the broken melee scaling. I'd be worried that adding two more +25% for each element might be too much.

And alternatives to using enchant seem to be
1. Regen + Altmer
2. Staves + Conjuration
3. Absorb Magicka Daggers
4. Regen + Sneak + Illusion (feels like cheating, but funny)
5. Don't forget elsweyr fondue
6. Haven't tested, but Ethereal shout might increase base regen back to 3%... would be very handy.

I saw no mention or discussion of this through the thread searching for 'illusion' so, in simple terms:

Illusion basically removes any possibility of enemy induced death.

At level 60 I need to level up other skills so I am branching into a thief/mage with illusion. Its pretty freaking awesome. I have updated the guide with the new info.

This guide is GREAT! So much detail put into it, and perfectly explained. Thank you for taking the time to write it! I was kinda afraid to start a mage, because everybody was saying that mages are so weak, but with your guide I can see that is not the case. I follow it to the letter, except I don't want to put so many perks into Conjuration. I have Sanguine Rose and still find myself rarely using it thanks to your guide.
IMO, being a mage is so fun now! Sure, it was a little bit hard in the beginning, especially if I ran into mage enemies that cast lightning.
What I would like to see is a balance regarding the amount of magicka potions/mage gear you find. I didn't realize this as a warrior, but you find a lot more health/stamina potions than magicka. This is especially nasty in the beginning when you are kinda broke and alchemy gives something like restore 20 pts.
This thread should get a sticky.

One question. I have 100 enchant, and all the perks up the line to dual enchant, but when I put resist shock for example, I don't get the 40% but only 38%. Anyone know why so? Not that it's a big deal, it just bugs me...also, I couldn't get the 25% fortify until I hit the 100 in Enchant.

Thank you for the kind words.

At 100 enchant I think 38% resists is about the max. Note that sometimes there are multiple base enchants with the same name. I try to hit an enchanting station with all my enchanted loot to disenchant everything before I sell it. That way I am sure to not miss any hidden or duplicate enchants.

There are 2 ways to get better enchants both require alchemy. One is a potion of enchanting and the other is to drink a potion of enchanting and then drink a potion of restoration. The restoration increases the effect of the potion of enchanting. These 2 potions can get you another few percent on your enchanted gear.

Thank you for replying. I don't necessarily want higher element resist because it's perfectly fine with just 38...I just thought it was bugged for me.
Also, how is the resist magic found on a ring different from the resist magic found on Shield of Solitude? Or are they the same, just split into 2 different things when in the enchanting menu, and you can apply both on one piece?
Thank you!

The shield one is one of the hidden ones I was talking about. It has a higher base than the rings and if you can use the shield one on other items you can get a higher resist magic rating.

I like the guide (and it is needed), but I don't like having to micro-manage the leveling so precisely to make it work.

I would rather be able to be a good mage by just being told to focus on this and this, be sure to get some of these perks as they are useful, etc.

I want to play a mage. I want to focus only on the Enchantment crafting skill (as I see focusing on Enchantment, Alchemy and Smithing combined as just overpowering).

I think were Skyrim messed up is the fixed damage for spells. One thing I loved about Dragon Age Origins was that my mages spells became more powerful the higher my mages Magic skill got. Same spell, more damage. This way enemies never out leveled my mage.

One thing that should be mentioned is Weakness to ____ poisons.

A simple Weakness to Fire poison made with 100 alchemy and the poison perks will increase fire damage by 52%. Add slow or paralysis effects as needed. You can hit around 100% wearing a good fortify alchemy set.

Stick a poisoned arrow in that Big Nasty and it'll fall over in no time.

That's not difficult. You'll need offense, defense, and crowd control. For a Mage, you'll obviously be focusing on Destruction as your primary combat skill; stay away from Warrior perks and don't bother leveling a weapon. For defense, your options are wearing armor + perking Smithing/ Armor or wearing cloth and perking Alteration; since this is "pure Mage" thread, you'll probably want to go with cloth + Alteration (which I recommend anyway since Alteration offers lots of other benefits too). For crowd control, choose either Conjuration or Illusion, and perk one to the exclusion of the other. Both trees perform the same basic function in combat.

http://skyrimcalculator.com/#18551 is a good base if you prefer Conjuration to Illusion.


You shouldn't have much trouble with spells scaling as long as you're constantly working on Destruction and remember to train new spells as soon as possible. Late game, if you notice big enemies out-scaling your spells, just spend some time leveling Alchemy (no need to perk it) to make Weakness to X poisons. The Mage Guild won't revoke your membership for firing a single arrow at a boss mob before nuking him.

Thank you for the guide, I'm still kind of torn as to whether I should use robes for the looks/rp or heavy armor. I like how my mage looks in black robes and with conjuration and my become ethereal shout I don't really need armor so I might just stick with robes. (also my mage is kind of a thief/mage, in that I sneak around to remain undetected)

Definitely go with the robes if you like the look, and for RP reasons. The mage armor improvment that you get from alteration is pretty good. Combined with Ebonyflesh and Lord stone, and you get pretty good armor. And if you get a Dremora summon they can take the heat off your back if the sneaking fails.

I started a High elf mage today and I plan on playing it without using exploits for more of a challenge. I am focusing on Destruction magic, Illusion, and Restoration. It is working out great so far, all i have to do is cast frenzy on an enemy then let his friend kill him, blast him with fire and heal if i get hurt. I will probably have to use a different strategy when I get to higher levels but it is working out for me so far. I also have Faendal as a companion to help deal extra damage. Also, is Faendal immortal like the dark brotherhood initiates or can he die like Lydia?

BTW I like the guide, great job!

I have a question about Muffle- if you have the DB equipment that muffles movement, is the spell redundant? I'll probably level Illusion anyway to get to Invisibilty, but just wondered.

Oh, and thanks for the guide- some good tips.

Effects-wise, it's the same thing and has no added bonus one way or another.
Main issue is that the spell muffle can be heard by enemies, making it pretty annoying when sneaking in tight quarters... especially since you have to keep casting it.
I would prefer to just use the equip if you have nothing else. Problem is that if you're an enchanter, there's usually a lot better options for equipment at your disposal.

The "Muffled" boot enchant, the Muffled Movement perk in Sneak, and the Muffle spell all produce the same effect, none of which stack. I agree that the spell is a hassle, so there's little reason not to get the effect via perks (2 points total, 1/5 in Stealth and 1/1 Muffled Movement) or via boot enchant.

I wouldn't say there are "a lot better options" for boot enchants, especially for a pure Mage. The only options are Fortify One Handed/ Sneak/ Pickpocket/ Two Handed, Fortify Stamina/ Stamina Regen, Resist Fire/ Frost/ Shock, Carry Weight, and Muffle. Unless you're determined to maximize elemental resistance, Carry Weight and Muffle are the only good options for a Mage.

I have a question on the novice/apprentice/adept/expert/master perks to reduce spell cost.

How is that calculated?

For example let's take Destruction school:
novice perk - cuts the cost of novice spells by half

now with 25% in 4 pieces of clothing = 100% reduction in spell cost to a specific shool. (tried that and it works as inteneded eg. all destruction spells cost 0)

now with the novice perk + say 2 items reducing it by 50% wouldn't that also = 100% reduction? Because when i tried it that way i was still spending magic points.

I guess that would mean the formula for the reduction is more like this: ((armor reduction + armor reduction) / novice perk at 1/2))
eg. Spell cost 100 points. 2 pieces of armor have 25% reduction. Plug it into the above formula you get. (25% + 25% = 50% = 50 points to cast). now divide that by 1/2 so that spell that cost 100 would cost 25 points. That's what seems to be happening. I know for a fact it wasn't at 0

i initially thought it was (novice @ 50% + armor reduction + armor reduction) so same numbers. which would be 50% + 25% + 25%) which would = 100 percent reduction..

Maybe it's the way it's worded in the perk that I assumed 1/2 the spell cost would translate to 50% reduction.. then added to the other 25%'s would be 0.

Just looking for some confirmation on that please.

thanks,

-Mush-

Yes, you're exactly right, they don't stack so a 50% of one and a 50% of another is 75% total.

Another little fact i noticed by accident. I was hitting my companion with 2 swords that are both enchanted.

I noticed that when i had my destruction reduction gear of 100% on, the charges on the weapons never got used.

I took the gear off and sure enough, went to hit my companion again; The charges on the weapon dropped per hit like normal.

Bug or not, it may be worth mentioning that for those that are spell-swords. No need to use soultrap if that's the case. Going to do more testing
on non companions.

-Mush-

Edit: Yup. several times i tried with and without the gear. Attacked the town of Riften to test. With 100% desctruction reduction, the weapon stays charged. Took it off and tried with 100% reduction in illusion to test. The weapons loose their charge per hit.

So, you could really make a serious tank and not have to worry about re-charging weapons.

duel-wield two blades that have Absorb Health on them + 4 pieces of armor totaling 100% reduction in Destruction Magic. Nothing can really touch you so long as your blade connects to something because every hit will replace your health.

I didn't read every post, but did you mention that Aspect of Terror Illusion perk adds 10 damage to fire spells due to the "fear" component on fire spells. So that max damage statistic you noted changes for fire based destruction spells. Also, hitting a target already on fire adds even more damage. Nice synergy with dremora lords or flame atronachs since both use fire damage (dremora swords are enchanted with fire).

A fire destruction mage with aspect of terror even at low levels is hitting for good damage with the apprentice fire spells. First spell "flames" hits for 22 per hand fully perked. So nearly 50 damage per second when dual cast. The lower level the fire spell, the more it benefits from the aspect of terror perk, so the greatest bang-for-the-buck magicka spells will continue to be firebolt and flames, though the hps of the enemies will necessitate changing up. But even fireball becomes a nice spell when each hand is dealing 70 damage fully perked.

I don't have any enchanting skill, only using the archmage robes, the destruction/restoration discount dragon priest mask, and the relevant magicka reduction perk and I stay pretty decently topped off magicka-wise in fights.

Here's my perfect mage build that I've done if you want to be a mage that does no enchanting:

Destruction:
All magicka reduction perks up to adept.
The first two fire damage perks for 50% bonus damage
Dual casting and impact

Conjuration:
Elemental tree up to getting two pets at once
First perk in bound weapons (second perk optional if you want to soul trap easier)

Illusion:
All perks. All. You want those master level spells to make everyone calm down, everyone run, or everyone fight each other regardless of their level. You want to be able to hit the highest enemies in the game so you need dual casting to add more than 2x to effective level.
(late game, the magicka reducing perks become not as needed, but if you're not enchanting, and want to enjoy playing an illusion mage from level 1-50+, you should just get the perks.)

Alteration:
Optional school to perk. Still worth leveling up (detect life is good for this. Standing directly in the middle of whiterun is perfect during daylight hours.)

Restoration:
Necromage perk is the essential perk for a mage. Healing can be done with potions. Necromage lets your destruction do 25% more damage vs. undead, lets you resurrect a level 50 vampire instead of a level 40 vampire with dead thrall, and lets you resurrect 25% higher level with your other raise dead spells. Also affects level of illusion vs. undead and if you become a vampire to increase your illusion by 25%, it will also affect all self enhancements, buffs, and summon durations since you become undead.

Sneak:
For a conjuration mage that would like to use some bound weapons, getting at least 6x sword damage and 3x bow damage is nice. By alternating level 1 "marked for death" shouts and pacify spells, you can take a boss's defense down so low that you can one shot him with your bound sword and dark brotherhood gloves (you can get cloth versions in the guild).

What clothing do you use for enchanting? I would like to have something like the College robes, the ones that are already enchanted, but I can't seem to find anything.