Mages using high level Enchanting? Blasphemy!

Some guy on youtube had 50% Destruction reduction on one piece of robes. (Plus 101% M-regen.) That's most likely a mod, right?

Yeah but I feel like u shouldn't have to do all that. Also the magic regen in combat is horrible. Why would they make it so that it only works outside of combat?! I mean come on now I don't need it outside of combat I need it while fighting! That's the whole point! Beth you guys better fix this balancing issue with an update or something cuz every time my Altmer levels the enemies get stronger but my mage's spell stay weak and it's getting to be unplayable.

Luv the Warrior and Thief/Assassins builds though. They feel real nice.

I think it's the fact that you don't see similar threads "how not to svck as a warrior or thief" by abusing the hell out of alchemy/smithing/enchant to have a zero Stamina cost build that irks me. Fact is other builds can focus on just bows, or just 1-handed and stealth, or just shield-bash the heck out of stuff and be fine. Not even a need for enchanted or smithed stuff. Mages need to abuse the heck out of various perks and skills, crafting, potions and so on just to be on par. And even then it gets cheezy with stuff like stun locking just to get through certain fights. I want to play a mage and have fun but, for me, crafting and enchanting 500 gold necklaces just to get a decent character is not fun. Hell, just give me the console code to get 100 Enchant and 100,000 gold.

You dont see those threads becaue its natural for ppl to smith and enchant they`re weapons and armour. Furthemore there is a 32K dmg with meele thread where they all come together and see what they can achieve with alch/smithing/enchanting so they dont need to post topics like "meele svcks at higher levels"

Like I said though alteration and conjuration are both very nice so just because destruction is meh doesn't discount completely the ability to be a decent mage

Wow nice guide Also may I add that I use Heavy boots and gauntlets for my mage char, because I think It really helps me out on my defense.

It sounds to me like you guys are trying to play this game with the old Dungeons and Dragons rules like no armor for mages. However, D&D had groups of characters that complimented each other like a thief, a mage, a cleric and two fighters teaming up to dungeon dive. Skyrim doesn't have groups like that so you shouldn't try to stay within those rules. Wear some armor and use some better weapons. Or, am I missing something? Does armor use and weapon choice somehow affect the use of magic in Skyrim? Boy, it would be nice to be able to explore the entire world of The Elder Scrolls with a small group.

I decided to wear armor. I looked at alteration and didn't like what I saw. I didn't want to have to burn more more of my magic pool or have protection negated because I found a piece of gear I wanted to wear.

I've never used any other weapon though.

I have only one question: What defines "in combat?"

Does it start when an enemy is engaged and end when the last one is killed?

Is it during the combat music? (reflects mostly the same as above.)

Is it only when weapons are drawn?

When does combat stop and Regen kick in again?

you can explore the entire world of the elder scrolls with a small group

me pure mage + a bandit chief thrall + a forsworn archer + a priest follower + the summon of the follower
so a 5man party

no armor = 350 armor, wich is half of the max possible, ok for me
no weapon = more than double cast dmg, why would i even want a weapon? I'm not a melee

i can wear archmages robes, and look like a mage
without a big malus, even some bonuses compared to armor
way better than oblivion

1. Yes it starts when the enemy is engaged and ends when the last one is killed which is pretty much the same time (usually) when combat music starts and ends respectively.
2. Weapons drawn do not count. I personally run around with spells running on both hands (usually clairvoyance and summon demora lord) I def get a lot more regen even running clairvoyance almost constantly than when I run around blasting things with lightening bolt. I don't need the regen running clairvoyance but I really do need it when im freaking fighting multiple dragons -____-
3. Combat "stopping" is clarified as when there is no enemies within the immediate vicinity (aka the same way the game determines when its ok for you to fast travel)

Thanks for posting this.

@DrDarkness.

Thanks for the quick reply. I figured as much. So far it's not a problem but I'm still mid-level (20 or so.)

I'm definitely looking into decreasing my casting costs.

You can... This is the problem when so many people are on skyrim threads its practically impossible to keep up (repeated threads, ridiculous amounts of spam).
I repeated this multiple times with the right build you can end up with 7 (and potentially even more if you start and leave some quests unfinished) allied npcs all at once.
1. Dog companion (preferable Barbas considering he is immortal)
2. Regular companion (preferably in this situation a higher lvl mage because they can also summon autronauchs or crazier things)
3. 2 Dead Thralls (again for maximization preferably mages. Try to get savos aren or another powerful mage that can summon and equip the other one with the sanguine rose. End result is two powerful zombies and two additional summons).

yes its cheating......................i plan to use it for my 500+ yr old Dunmer/God character already about 43% of the way with only 2 quests done (escape the cave and vist whiterun) god i wish i had access to cheats on my PS3 or a computer that liked Bethesda games!

OP, things you're saying about magica regen are invalid. Especialy when you get +%200 regen it's makes a real diffirence in combat. From early to late mid levels items with this enchantment are VITAL and can not be ignored. Even at late levels a mage should have at least +%200 maga regen if she's using more than 3 school in combat.

Also level 10 is way too early to rise any crafting skill to 100. It's equal to making destruction spells useless against enemies that are effectively scaled to your level.

The only spells you need to spam in combat are destruction, maybe alteration if you want to paralyze everybody that gets close. If you need to spam restoration, you are doing it wrong.

Lets do the math here and see how bad mana regen svcks once and for all:



Lets figure out the best out of combat mana regen for a level 30 mage.

Level 30 pure mage altmer with every level going twords magika should have naked 100+50+290 = 440 magicka.

Assume also this mage has the enchanting tree fully perked out at 100 skill. (going by memory with what is possible for these enchants)

head = +60 magicka, +50% mana regen
neck = +60 magicka, fortify destruction 25% (mana regen not on neck pieces)
body = archmage robes +100% mana regen, +50 magicka, -15% cost reduction on all spells
arms = +60 magicka, +40 carry weight (mana regen not on arms)
finger = +60 magicka, +50% mana regen
feet and shield provide no enchants to increase magic or magic regen

So total magicka = 440+60+60+60+60+50 = 730
total magic regen = 50% from resto 2 perks, +100+10+50+ apprentice stone 100 = 310%

Base is 3% * 3.1 = 9.3
mana regen per second out of combat = 730* 9.3% = 68 mana per second.
An expert spell without any reduction I think is about 250 mana per cast.
Expert perk for -50% = 125 per cast
enchants for destruction reduction in above eq = 40% (125 *.6) = 75 per cast, 150 for double cast

In combat mana regen is very much lessed say its 40% = 27 mana per second

In order to use Impact which is required to stop melees from hitting you we need to double cast and fire 1 double cast per second.
Chain double casting our expert level incinerate spell above means we will be out of mana after
680 - 150 = 530 second 0
530 + 27 - 150 = 407 second 1
407 + 27 - 150 = 284 second 2
284 +27- 150 = 161 second 3
161 +27 - 150 = 38 second 4 OOM

5 casts of incinerate with the best enchated gear and perks I can come up with along with the apprentice stone that has a huge 100% (take double damage) weakness to magic. Also all mana regen is shut off while you cast and thus the above may not even work at that speed, you probably need to cast every other second or hold off for 2 seconds and then cast. This means impact is only gotta work on one mob instead of chain casting it on 2 or 3.

THIS svckS! Especialy when if you ignore mana regen and focus on enchanting cost reduction you can cast all destruction spells for free as fast you want.

Therefore mana regen is totally and completly WORTHLESS.

^ Above poster is telling the truth. Trust me I easily had over 200% mana regen and even then I feel its completely worthless.
Magicka reduction gear will always be significantly better because you don't even spend magicka at all rather than depending on a broken magicka regen system.

Personally I like throwing on an alteration spell during rough moments but I don't even need to spend magicka on conjuration anymore because they are all perma summons.
So the only spells i really spam are Destruction and Illusion Being able to spam paralyze with high lvl Illusion reduction is so much fun it makes me feel silly.

I honestly don't care about killing things as fast as possible. I LIKE having a little effort and playing around with my enemies which is the reason why I gave up playing my 2h weapon user. At least an assassin warrior needs timing and skill and I like kiting and out maneuvering my enemy.

What's interesting is that you talk like such enchantments are avaible early which they aren't. Also i clearly said they are vital for early to mid-late levels. Also impacting your enemies to hell is not a fun way to play if it' a way at all.

You and your guide say that playing a pure mage is possible if only you use a (likely) exploit which isn't the truth. A mage with high illusion, conjuration and destruction can control the whole battle field without getting a scratch. Dremora lord's sword ignites enemies which gaves a damage boost to your next fire spell. With reasonable and equally distributed cost reduction enchantments between %70-%50 it's viable to play a mage. Also at higher levels staves must be used and with alchemy destruction can still be effective.

However reducing the whole play style into a (likely) exploit and missing the real potential of the class...

Mana regen outside of battle is 3% of your magica pool, in-fight its only 1% - I know I looked into skyrim.esm

So getting 200% mana regen gear means your in-fight regen gonna go up to 3% and out of fight regen to 9%

Still mana regen isnt pointless if you couple it with high elves bonus of 10x mana regen per day.

If you have only 1% then the racial gonna boost your mana regen to 10% but if it is 3% then your up to 30%. So 10 seconds to full health versus 3 seconds maybe it isnt that much but it counts.

Furthemore you can enchant gear with 2 effec but those effect each can have more than one buff. So why not enchant an reduction to destruction cost + mana regen and a reduction to alteration + mana regen on your ring

Middle ground is found, problem solved.

I've logged hundreds of hours into Skyrim, playing Destruction Mages, Spellswords, Assassins, Paladins, Barbarians and all sorts of characters all on master difficulty. The best pure mage class I found was Conjuration, Alteration, and Illusion. I skipped every other skill entirely, did not raise smithing, enchanting, or alchemy.

One of the first steps you should do is obtain the items to create the summon frost and storm atronach tomes from the atronach forge in the midden. The components are relatively easy to obtain as early as level 1-2. The only challenge will be having enough mana to cast the spells. Alternatively you can make the storm atronach staff at level 1-2 with slightly more difficulty but nothing actually hard.

In terms of progress if you have the above items, you can breeze through the below items...

Simply struggle through the sanguine rose quest and get the dremora staff and complete the mages college missions. Once you have the Rose go get the Vokun mask for the 20% mana cost reduction in alteration/conjuration/illusion. These steps ease the way with epic items that'll make the pure mage no crafting classes easier. The goal is to get twin souls and summon dremora lord, add both or either Invisibility or Paralyze and its game over with any encounter. No funny tricks, no min maxing. Two Dremora Lords plus paralyze or Invis completely negate all challenge, excluding leaving the area while invis to regen or drink a potion, or having to move out of the way so your summon can get to the paralyzed mob.

You can ofcourse get creative with your summons, and have an army, or go nuts with silent casting and sneak frenzy, calm stuff or whatever else tickles your fancy. The brass tax is dremora's and paralyze/invis. I prefer silent casting so I can just drop Dremora's on top of enemies or in unknown areas to reveal enemies. Then invis or paralyze as I see fit and its over.

Its much easier than the warrior and no maxing to 100 or traveling around the world to different vendors etc needs to be done. Really if you get Sanguine's Rose early enough (I think its lvl 14 min) almost all encounters are trivial.
Mages are just as easy as other classes its destruction damage scaling thats the problem. You dont need zero mana cast spells dominate everything, you just need the proper spell.

For any mix maxers you can boost your conjuration to 100 very quickly by casting soul trap on dead enemies and waiting when out of mana. For Illusion cast muffle for alteration cast telekenesis.

For everyone else play organically, get a few nice items and don't play like your some super charged warrior/wizard who runs in first and assesses the situation second. You dont need the summon tomes early or the staves earlier, it just makes life easier.

One a final note they need to add more scripts to the dremora's because "A challenger is near", "I will feast on your heart", or "I will honor my master by destroying you" do get old after the thousandth time.

Ahh... so I destroyed your mana regen argument so now you need at attack my guide in other ways. Sure ill play your little game.

The fortify enchants are availible very early as any mage you fight is gonna have some sort of fortify (mostly destruction) on it, also grand soul gems already filled are sold by all the teachers at the mage college for about 1000 gold a pop. You only need 4 of em to get free destruction spells.

Impact is active defense, it does not do more damage it just stops the mob from attacking you, it also requires that you double cast a spell, which prevents the use of wards, healing or conjuring something. If you have high armor you dont need impact, but thats the nice thing about impact its a choice. All good game mechanices involve interesting player choice to come up with good game balance. My guide uses what I consider bad bethesda game balance design to show players the single optimal way to play a pure mage that spams destruction spells. If they had bothered to properly balance the game they would have capped the fortifys all at 75% and worked on making combat regen useable so the player had the ability to fix OOM options without using the other poorly balanced crafting system called alchemy and unlimited potion use during game pause to completely heal themselves and get back all their magic pool. I have even paused the game right before a sword was about to kill me to full heal myselft to prevent a death! Using potions in combat is a much bigger exploit than 0 cost spells, because potion use costs no time, but casting spells even at 0 cost does cost time.

So your guide if you ever bothered to put out any effort to help people would be called how to play a pure mage by casting 5 destruction spells and then pausing the game and svcking down X number of mana restore potions and repeat until mobs are dead. But dont use the impact perk because thats cheating. Or just ignore destruction and double cast dremor lords and let them do all the dirty work.

My guide does not ever claim that 0 cost spells is the only way to play a mage. I claim its the most effective way that does not exploit alchemy and potion use (a thief skill and thus not a pure mage) or smithing to have legendary armor at the armor cap without any perks in the armor trees, to use destruction as your primary offense since thats what a pure mage is to most people.

thanks for the help

My mage playthrough ended up taking a similar path to the one outlined in the OP. Some thoughts:

- As others have mentioned, the mana regen method is pretty bad for a pure mage. Since you don't regen mana at all while actually casting a spell, your actual in combat regen is even lower than what it says it is. Goes without saying that as a pure mage, we're casting a lot. Spell cost reduction feels a bit cheesy, but it is by far the better route to go.

- You only need to take the destruction mastery up to apprentice destruction. At the beginning levels you're pretty severely limited by mana, and the lower spells offer better damage per mana, while the higher spells are obviously better damage per second. By the time you get 100 enchanting the mana reduction perks are useless, so you can save at least 3 perks by not taking them.

- Enchanting my companion with 100% resist to a specific element made them always resist my destruction spell of that element (as opposed to magic resist which seems to cap at 85% just like players). Keep in mind even though they completely resist the spell, they will still turn hostile if you cast too many at them in succession. I enchanted my companion with +fire and +electricity. Firestorm casts slowly enough that even chain casting it your companion will never turn hostile on you, and Blizzard seems to ignore friendly fire. This helped a lot in preventing me from accidentally frying Lydia when I got too trigger happy (happened a lot).

- On master difficulty the reanimated zombies definitely seemed to scale better than the atronachs. This is balanced by the fact that if you combo the right atronachs with the right spells and companion resists, you can go fireball happy without worry of aoe'ing all your buddies to death.