http://www.giantbomb.com/five-minutes-of-rages-dead-city/17-4026/ and while graphics and procedural animations do look outstanding there is a huge problem with all of it.

It has no RPG elements.
It has no character customization.
It has no abilities, no leveling up or customizing of anything.

It is really hard to understand why would any developer at this day make a pure shooter.

When RPG elements are infused into something it makes everything better, it made Dawn of War 2 series better, it made Resident Evil series better..will we even have the amount of weapon customization that exists in Resident Evil 4,5?

Will it at least be like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky?

If Rage is just going to be a shooter I really don't see any appeal to it, the time of pure shooters with no RPG elements has long passed, it feels impoverished and substandard.

P.S.
I would be totally sold on Rage if you could upgrade your sentry in a variety of meaningful ways and each upgrade would be visually represented.

It was never supposed to be a pure RPG.

Why does everything has to have RPG elements? Thats like saying every game should play exactly the same, what you are suggesting is an unhealthy homogenization of gameplay genres, its like everything should converge towards one action rpg genre.
There will be weapon and car customization/upgrades tho...

Just because you don't like pure shooters with no RPG elements doesn't mean their time has long passed, there are plenty of people looking for just that.
While I like mixing RPG elements into other genres (I enjoyed Deus Ex, Borderlands, DoW2 etc), but I like different genres and different experiences as well.
Sometimes I just want to shoot things, and id has been excellent with providing me with games for that.

So, that is the problem, why are you redundantly pointing this out?



Because RPG inherently brings universal replayability and variety to any genre, it is a matter of evolution of games, not your stupid nonsensical point about converging and homogenization. Either something is impoverished buy not having enough or any replayability and variety or it isn't. RPG makes this happen, it is completely irrelevant that we label this layer as RPG. You are just wanking with labels here, I thought one would be reasonable enough to see what it is about.

And you got all that from one single video? In case you didn't realize weapon customization did exist. Observer the pistol through out the video it changes form to manage different bullet types. In case you haven't seen other interviews car customization and some sort of progression for the character exists.

Abilities? this is not oblivion or fallout 3, you want that, go play those games. This is Rage, and if you feel you can consider the mechanical items you build as some sort of enhancement to you then cool else leave. This is not stalker, oblivion or fallout.

Adding RPG elements can also detract from the experience. In the case of shooters when you add RPG elements its not a purely skill based game anymore, and the actual shooting doesn't feel nearly as good as in pure shooters (this has happened in Deus Ex, Bioshock, Borderlands, the actual shooting was by far the weakest part of those games).

I don't see how adding RPG elements to all games doesn't make everything more samey. It can be a good thing, and it can provide replayability, but it's just one way of making a good game not the only one. It's not some holy grail of game design. I don't think there should be one desing philosphy which every dev should strive for, thats like saying x form of music is inherently better than everything else, so everything should be like x. Variety is nice.

This is RAGE :mohawk: :swear:

Hm, curious how you failed to mention Mass Effect 2, but you mention an ancient Deus Ex and make up stuff about Borderlands, seriously Borderlands, the best fusion of RPG and FPS ever made with not a single thing wrong in the FPS aspect?




Source?

With which game would you compare it to as to its extent? Does it just barely cross the threshold of meriting the label "customization"? Is that the full extent of the RPG aspect, no inventory, injury mechanic and weight like in S.T.AL.K.E.R.?

exactly.

I mentioned Deus Ex because it's otherwise a great FPS/RPG hybrid. Regarding Borderlands I didn't really like the feel of the aiming (then again there is somebody complaining about the aiming in every game so I realize thats hugely subjective, I don't really like the movement/aiming in unreal engine games in general), combat just didn't feel visceral, there was not enough variety in it. It just felt like clickclickclick, sorta like Diablo... didn't provide me with the adrenaline rush of old school id games, or the tactical, measured gameplay of Stalker (which did have light RPG elements, so I guess thats another good example of those games). Also there was a lack of variety in enemy design. This is one pitfall Rage can fall into as well, and I hope they avoid this. A great thing about old school id games is that there were many different types of enemies, and you had to use diffferent weapons/playstiles to be really effective against them. Simple but effective game design.

(sidenote: why is that every thread in this forum devolves into an arguement about other games?)

My point is simply that if I wanted to play an action RPG I would play an action RPG (and I will because I like them). But I want different stuff as well, pure shooters for example, because I don't just want to play the same game in a different setting all the time. But if action RPGs are all you want there are many action RPG games for you to play, and there will be many in the future.



And the weapon/car upgrade stuff has been mentioned in countless developer walktroughs/interviews, and has been talked about in this forum. In the interviews they basically said the RPG aspect of the game is improving what you have, and gathering new equipment and not filling up stat bars.

is that now all the games have to be as you like!? no! as they like to the developers! not you! if you like both play fallout rpg stick around if you'll want an rpg or borderlands! Rage is a game fps is a parents fps could you expect?

Meta I think you need to take off the rose colored glasses on this one. Borderlands is a perfect example of how RPG elements can detract from a shooter, and this is coming from someone that counts Borderlands as one of his all time favorites. RPG elements bring along bad traits such as bullet-sponge enemies, shoehorning you into using 1 or 2 weapon types, trivializing enemies with crippling weaknesses. In other words it takes a good portion of the fight outta the direct control of the player and replaces it with minimaxing your stats/build to perfection, not exactly everyones cup of tea.

For example take the weaknesses of enemies in Borderlands, by having a good acid based gun normally tough Lance troops become easy, and having Siren built up for Hellfire SMGs makes everything else easy. :flamethrower:

Also let us not forget Mordecai and his lovely Bloodwing build that when setup properly can dominate entire groups of enemies without you firing a single shot and with the right mod is always available for use. Not to mention that Bloodwing also severely cripples enemies that survive making em trivial to kill.

Pure shooters just make for quicker and more skill based gameplay over their RPG-hybrid cousins, and I don't see how you can argue this point with the like of Badmutha Brutes and their counterparts in other hybrid shooters eating clip after clip of ammo. I understand that even pure shooters have the occasional bullet sponge but nowhere near as often as anything with heavy RPG elements.

*Edit* Almost forgot one my bigger gripes with Borderlands, the damn weapon proficiency system! Punished you for using a variety of weapons, something you'll never see in a pure shooter.

Over all point being is both types of game have their ups and downs and it's rather asinine of you to call a game *ruined* months in advance simply cause it don't fit your personal preference. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

I already covered your nonsensical parroting in 3rd post.

RAGE may be published by Bethesda, but it is developed by ID. It was never supposed to have RPG elements.

And no, not all games benefit from RPG elements.

I think Boarderlands did a terrible job.

You pretyy much would play the entire game with one gun and it was pointless to change once you found that one good one. At least in Rage there will be a reason to mix it up.

It's a shooter, it won't be ruined by not having RPG elements (which it has very few of).

You're making a ridicules claim, id has made the greatest shooters on the market for twenty years and have been making this game for seven, it's their masterpiece and will be nothing short of the greatest shooter in this generation. Moderators please lock this topic that has no reason to even exist.

I hated borderlands.

pointless grind shooter with RPG elements.


Rage is implementing upgradable ammo types, cars and player.. thats good enough for me.
While it think that RPG/FPS hybrids can be done well, i certainly feel they have to grow into their shoes a bit to make mechanics beter in some cases, and make the shooting better in others.

But every single game they made has been extremely linear and with extremely low replayability factor. RPG layer does away with with both of that.

So your opinion (not mine) is that Id shouldnt make an Id game?

I wouldn't say that it's ruined but I wouldn't think it would be as enjoyable.I love shooters and all but it would have been better if this game did have more RPG elements in the form of character progression/customization.A 15 hour single player pure shooter wouldn't last long even with co-op and gorgeous visuals.It'll lack extra things once you're done with everything.IMO of course.

Its not as if it deosnt ahve upgradable weapons, vehicles and player.. it has non linear play as well.. you dont have to rush through it, theres a lot of side wuests..

Upgradeable player? What else can you upgrade instead of just obtaining a new suit(about 3 I think excluding the Crimson Elite).Lots of side quests would be nice but it depends on how long each quest is.Considering how the game is like I'm considering them to be about equal length to the quests in Borderlands but more enjoyable.

to my understanding you can get different nanits and so on as you go through.

i dont know why anyone would consider any of the quests to have any thing to do with borderlands in length or otherwise.

Rage takes up a terabyte. I am sure a lot of that is graphics, but consider that size and try and realize how much Id has put into this game.

Hehe, I laughed when I saw this thread. Quite ridiculous, yes.

Rage is an FPS.

Character cuzomization? The player is a human, that's as badass as it gets. Rage is not a dress-up game.
Leveling up? That's what kills the experience of FPS games, where the player somehow is super-strong compared to other humans... quite stupid
Abilities? Rage is not Mortal Kombat or DarkSiders.
Linear paths? Rage is almost openworld, and that's when your vehicle comes in handy.

When RPG elements take over an FPS it becomes TOO much about the characters and story, and it does create memorable games that are known for their amazing story, but Id Software's RAGE is about the amazing gameplay experience and outstanding graphics.

Lastly, Rage isn't a solid shooter, a great part of the game is racing, while shooting, or "raging" to be exact.
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I love RPG's and am a fan, but when you mix Final Fantasy 7 with DOOM you get a pile of [censored]. I thank Id Software for making solid shooters.

Don't be dishonest, we are talking here about mixing basic RPG layer of Fallout 3 with much better shooting mechanic of a pure shooter to gain significant replayability, variety and gameworld enjoyment..

Nobody is buying your distracting crap of "mix Final Fantasy 7 with DOOM"....

i complete doom 2 over 30 times with different play styles and modes
same thing with Quake 2
you should try doom 2 on nightmare, no game this gen require SO MUCH skill to complete it