I'm really liking Skyrim but I think I'm gonna stop playing for a few months until these Immersion/RPG mods, mentioned by Lord_Santa and others, are implemented. It'll be difficult to keep myself away from it but even whilst playing it I've been kind of putting off doing anything significant as I know I'll enjoy it so much more with the mods mentioned above - I did the same with Fallout 3 and was glad I did. I haven't even handed in the Dragonstone from Bleak yet and have only done a few dungeons and misc quests (and I've actually been reading books this time )

One mod I'd love to see, which hasn't been mentioned yet, is an actual compass item. Infact Ive begun modeling one in the hope that someone more clued up in the programming department can implement it.

as long as there would be the possibility of being attacked, then this idea would be perfect

at first I had in mind that one should be able to make camp, but I thought that there had to be some kind of dangers to it, in order to enhance the experience
making random attacks when sleeping outdoors should not be all that difficult
if one could find the code for how it's done with The Dark Brotherhood of Morrowind (IIRC they attack you while you sleep, although at just about any place, but with a few tweaks, that should be perfectly achievable)

thus I completely agree that there should be the ability to "set up camp" (camp-items, i.e. tent and camp-fire already has been modded into Morrowind, IIRC)

My $.02 is that I would prefer many smaller mods - one for each feature - than a single massive one. This way features can be easily selected. I generally enjoy this sort of thing but sometimes a single feature can be badly done, ruining the whole mod if it is all inclusive.

I personaly think that merchants throughout the game should only have standard weaponry, like iron, steel, plate hide fur and such. Foreign or high end armors and weapons like Orcish as foreign, Deadra as highend should only be aquireable by adventures

thus the ability to craft those should be removed for some, or only deadric armor aswell, afterall this armor is OTHERWORLDLY from the plains of oblivion, you dont justc raft them in a forge.

Also as ive read in a different post i think the smith crafting should be overhault, instead of beeing able to craft everything, there should be something like an unlock, either learn certain schematics, or unlock them by finding a certain piece of armor to reproduce it. i think you get my meaning (cbb with spellcheck, forgive me but i want to play skyrim again now :V )

No_Fast_Travel is easy to implement, although made more difficult right now due to lack of .xml files (as was the case with New Vegas and Fallout 3, where I simply edited said .xml file(s) thus effectively removing fast-travel, but it (should be) very possible to do so with the Creation Kit)
the tricky part would be making fast-travel available through caravans, etc. but I do consider it feasible (Fallout 3, IIRC have fast-travel with motorbikes(?) when No_Fast_Travel is enabled)


No "Sleeping" outdoors (unless using a "camp-kit" ) - this should not prove too much of a challenge through the correct scripting-techniqueswhat would be needed are variables that define whether you are "inside" or "outside" and thereafter ask whether you have said "camp-kit", or not
should you not have the kit, you should still be able to "rest"; although not regain health, etc. thus being penalized (i.e. lowered stats) -
I think there is already a similar mod for this for Morrowind or Oblivion (not 100% sure, but 99% sure it was a Bethesda game)
this (should) all be achievable (once again) through scripting (I can't give you the precise script right here and now, but I don't see it as an impossibility)

no health regeneration - not having seen the Creation Kit, I'm not sure how to achieve this, but I am almost certain it's achievable through scripting (if I'm not mistaken it's possible to remove through console-commands, hence it's fully possible to mod into the game)

no map - I'm already working on this and since the in-game map is based on a .swf file, I dare say it's not entirely impossible to make changes to remove at least the graphical part of it, hence effectively removing the map itself
in order to create an in-game map (such as on a scroll, or similar) there would be required some more hefty scripting than what I am capable of atm., but I am almost certain that it is indeed doable
think like creating a custom book within the Creation Kit (fully doable in Morrowind and Oblivion) and then "simply" adding a texture (with the map) unto it
this should be feasible through modding

no quest markers - easily removed through the .ini, I'd however like to see it "hard-modded" into a an .esp - same goes for compass

no more "text" displaying content or not - this I have no doubt is attainable through the Creation Kit

no more level-scaling - may sound overly complicated, but I see no reason why this couldn't be changed through scripting (think Martigen's Mutant/Monster Mod, as well as several others adding/changing spawn) - I don't see how this should not be achievable through scripting

climbing-gear - it has been made for Morrowind (even added as a skill, IIRC) - hence there is no doubt in my mind that it is attainable in Skyrim

revised combat - this could/will prove tricky we already have Deadly Reflex for Oblivion, but I'm thinking more that you should be able to control the swinging of your weapon, such
as in Daggerfall/Morrowind - to me, it would be a challenge to script - for others more used to focusing on the combat aspects of previous titles of the series, I don't think it'd be impossible through scripting

requirements on gear - again, this might/will prove tricky, but the script(s) would be something in the lines of (and I'm not giving you a script per. se here, but merely of how it would be outlined) :

if 1-hand weapon (skill) = 15 then allow Orchish one-hand weapon

(as mentioned, that is not a script, merely an example of how it can be achieved)

no crosshair - I've already made this for Fallout 3, not a problem as long as you just edit a couple of image-files then redistribute

revamped economy already been done for both Morrowind and Oblivion, will most certainly not be a problem with Skyrim

class-specialization - this one will prove a challenge, without a doubt, but (once again) we turn to scripting
if at the beginning of the game (as with previuos titles) you were to choose a specific class, then have the ability to dual that class "along the line" of playing, then this should be doable through scripting where one would (by script) restrict said class to use the skills that are suited for said class - dual-classing would prove more of a challenge than the specializiation itself

sleep requirement hunger, sleep, thirst has already been made for previous titles, I see no reason it couldn't be made for Skyrim

psychology tricky, but not impossible (I don't think so at least) - once again, script-example:

if PC = afraid of dragon then lower defense/offense when fighting dragons
if PC = hatred of dragon then raise defense/offense when fighting dragons

(above "script-example", is the very, very basic of how to put it in a script, i.e. the fundamental variables that need to be in the works

language - I have no idea how this would be implemented and as I mentioned, highly unlikely but still nice to dream, no?

more variety in weight/height of races very, very easily achievable through the Creation-kit, it's anything like the previous versions (Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout 3/Fallout New Vegas)

open cities/levitate they did it in Oblivion, I see no reason it shouldn't be doable in Skyrim

no more lading different world-cell buildings - not going to happen, but once again... one can dream, no?

Really Almost Everything Visible When Distant - it will take time, but (once again) done with Oblivion, see no reason it can't be done with Skyrim (I'd prefer the Morrowind solution, alas I don't think it's going to

weapons repair - not sure why they removed it, not sure how to (re)-implement it

First Person Realism tweaking the third person camera, should (theoretically) be able to show your limbs, as if though viewed from first person (tweak the 3rd person camera to be placed "inside" the player's head)

darker nights there is no reason this can't be done (whether through shaders, or .ini tweaks, as has been done for previous installments)

spears - I don't think making "a new weapon" per. se will prove tricky, nor how to apply it to stats (two-handed weapon), what I think will prove tricky would be the animation(s) and how to (preferably) only make it stab

now then, I hope this sheds some light on how things can (all in theory since we have no Creation Kit) be done

I pull ye' old I was drunk/sleep-depraved/grumpy-card here

Yeah, and OBVIOUSLY only people on Consoles are stupid enough to not be able to read, amirite?



Really? The insult levied at console players (and ONLY console players) wasn't an insult? Please.


No, you DID mean to offend. If you had said "TL;DR: I want to implement features that were likely not included into the game due to the technological limitations of Consoles," THAT would have been "Not Meaning to Offend." What you said is PC snobbery its worst.


Really? You can do more with it on a PC than a 360? I'm glad you informed me!

You were flaming, plain and simple. 7/10 - you got me to respond, and made me a bit angry.

By the way - I play on PC. People like you give the rest of us a bad name.

how about adding zones where you cannot save...

like a really challenging robbery for rogues. if yiu can save after every step, it`s not a big deal. but if you enter a house where you cannot save, and you have to deal with traps one by one etc... and at the end there is the reward and you still have to escape! that would be fun

what valuable thoughts you have - I am glad that you're taking an actual interest
please join me over a cup of coffee, where we can discuss the nature of our respective behavior towards other human beings
I don't think this thread is appropriate to start a flame-war, nor do I wish to engage in one

I've already explained twice why I wrote that (not the best of explanations, but you work with what you got, no?)

now then, shall we let the actual content of this thread (the RPG-part) continue, or are we going to get this thread locked due to (our mutually) inappropriate behavior?

edit:

I've removed the insult in question and hope that we now can get on with what is important here, instead of focusing our bitterness on irrelevant details, such as my drunken outbursts

The only changes in the original post I support are the alchemy/smithing, weather, and horses. The rest seem to just make the game harder for no good reason.

Heh, I guess that's where people differ. Hard is almost always better than straight forward as long as Hard is fun, in my opinion.

I like the majority of the OP's ideas, but a few are a little too harsh, in my opinion.

Health and magicka SHOULD regenerate, but at a snail's pace compared to what they do in the last game (about as much magicka per hour as OB gave per minute for both the character and any enchanted items carried, and health even slower). You should recover over time, but not over the course of a short walk between two towns. Sleeping outdoors to gain the benefits of rest, such as increased rate of health and magicka recovery (and to avoid penalties in the more extreme stages of hunger or sleep deprivation) should be POSSIBLE, but risky.

Equipment degradation was a big factor in MW, but more of a pain in OB due to the "one use" hammers until you got to a decent Armorer skill. Something between them might be better, where you get 10-25 hits per repair hammer, and a "success" doesn't "burn" one, so you'd get more and more "life" from them as your skill improved. The amount of actual repair per hit would be dependent on your skill minus the repair rating of the material, making exotic weapons and armor difficult and expensive to repair until your Armorer skill could handle it properly.

One problem with the "must sleep every day" suggestions is that a day in the game is not that long (an hour? two?). This then starts to get frustrating if you have to find a bed and rest every hour or so of playing. Portable bedrolls solve this problem to some extent.

How long can human beings stay awake? Two days max maybe? After 18 hours awake or so, I'm all for a slow but steady degradation in all your stats (stamina, health, magicka), so that by 48 hours without rest they should basically be almost zero until you sleep.

Likewise with food...you can go three days without food with no real ill effects (other than a rumbling belly). After that, for each day without food you should be looking at about a 10% degradation in your stats, so that by day 14 you should be about done.

Thats why you need a mod which alters the timescale aswell like Arwens realism tweaks does for fallout 3, i hope arwen will make a realism mod for skyrim as i think the game needs it. I mean look at how much food there is but you dont need to eat any. Your health auto regenerates FFS! so that needs to go and also sleeping in a bed regenerating your health needs to go.

Lord Santa are you planning a no fast travel mod for skyrim? as i would most certainly like it

yes but including in an immersion mod we would of course increase timescale like the post above said, easily done, maybe have a day last 2 rl hours or 4, what do you think?

have the option for both and of course 1 game hour = 1 real hour

I know that this will meet with much derision - but I actually find the markers somewhat useful. The problem is that they tell you about things miles away. What I would like is for the compass help to appear only when you are almost on top of something.

well, yes they are unseful but not very "adventury" i removed the compass for myself, including the floating quest markers

I am indeed planning one and I will release it, unless (of course) someone releases it before me
'tis a rather simple mod to make, but I find it very useful

oh thats good to hear thank you, yes it is simple but a great immersion adder imo.

- Ability to create a character with NO magic abilities.

- Ability to move skillpoints between skills in startup. (Now all same-race characters are 100% identical at lvl 1 which I hate from all my heart)

- Sinking in water when heavily equipped. Eyesight in water very much poorer. Speed when diving drastically slower.

Daedric armour was commonly accepted to be ebony armour imbued with the souls of daedra, I plan on modding it to be craftable via enchantment in a separate sub menu on the enchanters table. I think the materials would be a grand soulgem (with grand soul) a number of daedra hearts, and the equivalent ebony item you wish to create, so
ebony helm -> daedric helm
ebony dagger -> daedric dagger
etc.

As far as common vendors go I agree they should only sell standard stuff, but perhaps some of the richer / more remote merchants should have a hand placed relic or two hidden away in some locked chest. if there are race relevant merchants in the game they should come with one or two items, for example orcish traders could have one or two orc weapons. However the prices of anything above the steel/studded leather tiers really needs a massive price increase.

The ability to craft these exotic materials (Dwemer Ebony Daedric Orcish Elven Glass) should not be gained via perks, instead some relevant quests should be put in which allow the player to learn from a master how to create these items, Dark elf seems most likely to know about Dwemer / Daedric crafting. Orcs would be glass / orcish(duh) and some exiled altmer may know how to craft elvish armour.

The problem is then what to replace the smithing perks with ?

• if the need for repairing items was also bundled into this mod there would be perks to make player crafted armour more resilient
  
• Or have a random chance of being masterwork (a buff like upgrading items at the workbench, but stacks with the workbench / grindstone upgrade) so it would be come a second prefix e.g. a Masterwork Steel Sword -> a Superior Masterwork Steel Sword,
  
• some other perk may give a little bonus to the sub parts of crafting such as extra ingots from smelting ore, or leather from hides?
  
• Perk to make player crafted items weigh less?

I agree with most everything the OP and Lord Santa mentioned.

I've thought about that, but realized there are some problems with it.

For one, game time stops when you aren't playing. So unless you planned to keep the game running 24/7 (so that your character could "sleep" while you do), you'd ended up needing a few days (possibly a week or more) to get through a single day in the game.

Another problem with that is the physical scale of the land. Skyrim is supposed to be a massive province, but since that would be far too big for a single game, they shrunk everything way down starting with Morrowind. So whereas it should take you several days (more likely weeks) on foot to cross the entire area, it won't even take you a real-time hour to cross it. Since increasing the scale is impossible without a complete overhaul, the only way you could compensate would be to reduce your movement speed drastically. But that would also get really annoying.

So if you make the in-game time equal to real-time without making any other adjustments, it would be possible to complete a large percentage of the game's content in less than a single in-game day.


Yeah and that was brought up a lot over the months, but they kept telling us they were making the game the way they would want to play it. That's a little disturbing though if even the game devs want what amounts to an in-game Prima guide that spells it all out for them. If it's possible to adjust compass markers to be dependent on distance, that would be very nice. Until then, I just have to disable them entirely.

There were numerous points in your post that lead me to instinctively "facepalm," but I guess I had to just single these out..

I think you may have had that backwards. Morrowind had mad level scaling. As soon as I hit higher levels, I was getting slammed by hungers and winged twilights on my way to Pelagiad from Seyda Neen. It was always a Scrib when I started. The only time I didn't see a leveled list in Morrowind was when it was a set boss, and even then sometimes the gear was leveled. That's both the Xbox and PC version. When I played Oblivion I still saw rats and low level bandits now and then even when I capped my level. This was of course Vanilla Oblvion I'm referring to. Don't get me wrong, it was still highly dependent on leveled lists, but I think the trend is the opposite from what you've implied. It's gotten better. Even now in Skyrim, there are some parts where you're guts are going to get smeared into the walls after being beaten into a fine paste if you haven't leveled up your abilities sufficiently. And there are certainly areas where once you're powerful enough (IE the main quest) where you just blow everything away with a spell or two because everything is still your basic draugr or skeleton.

Yeah, there are still leveled lists, but give some credit where it's due, they've clearly been working on that aspect. And to some extent, leveled lists are good now and then, as it's good to have areas that aren't always either below or above your level, but seem to be at just what you can handle by fully utilizing your abilities.


Also... "Bethesda has severely crippled our options..." Holy crap. I'm the last person to defend a corporation that's just trying to turn a profit in the end.. But still. I don't think that would ever have been their intention. You haven't even seen the capabilities of the creation kit yet. Take a deep breath and wait. You can do some truly amazing things with the modding tools of gamesas games that you really can't do with any other and our modding community reflects that.

Also, just to play devil's advocate here, about your survival/realism in RPG's craze... If it was supposed to be entirely realistic (other than the fact that there are dragons, elves, orcs, magic, talking mudcrabs, mad gods, and enchanted forks), wouldn't we be entirely screwed? One wrong arrow wound and you're dead. One wrong blade slash and you're dead. Don't even get me started on being incinerated / eaten by overgrown irate reptiles that miraculously have the ability to fly and yell magical obscenities at you.