I was wondering if there is any hardcoe RPG mod project going on.

As you may notice, this is a console port and not many people are happy with is. There have been suggestions and ideas to make this game more "real-alike" but it would be superb if all of this changes comes into a mod. Changes like:

- Hunger and Thirst: after some time, you need to eat to recover full stamina.
- Armor: repair is needed
- Alchemy / Smithing: should only give slighlty xp gain (or no xp at all).
- Wounds: sometimes you will need to apply bandages to your wounds (or pay for it)
- Traveling: Limit fast travel to mounts and caravans OR fast travel by foot only if you have a good amount of food and drink. Boots suffers footloose if travel large distances.
- Changing/consuming items: you need game time to drink a potion or to change a piece of armor. Right now you can insta change, drink, whatever in miliseconds.
- Weather: Heck, we are in Skyrim, it's freaking cold out there! As other user said, we need fur cloaks or somethig to bear with cold.
- Crime: Harder laws to criminals: if you ever been caught robbing or murdering in a city, you are tagged as a criminal is that city FOREVER.
- Horses: horses and not very smart but I'm sure not as stupid as they are right now (they charge against all enemies, dissappear randomly, etc).
- Housing: much more expensive than now, however prices can low down if gaining reputation with such city.

I'm sure more ideas will come to my mind and lot of users have theirs, feel free to post here and add to the previously mentioned.

Thanks!!


EDIT: sorry for not putting [REQ] tag

I made the "No_Fast_Travel" for both Fallout 3 and New Vegas (based on an Oblivion mod) and I agree that there should be no means of fast-travel, unless by caravan/etc.
it's the only way I can see it fitting for this game (or any kind of game, for that matter)

the only reason that fast-travel was an option in Daggerfall, was due to the enormous size of the world
it is not necessary in this world

no "sleeping" out-doors (waiting/whatever), unless it does not regenerate health
in order to regenerate health, you should sleep in a bed, inside a safe environment (i.e. an inn, your own place, or similar)

no health-regeneration (this was a "perk" in Daggerfall, which would cost you a lot of "minus-points" (to the leveling-system)
no magicka-regeneration (see above)

no map, unless you can have a "printed" version of said map (I've not even opened the map in-game yet; and I'm about 8 hours into it; nor do I ever use fast-travel)
you should be able to buy a scroll or similar with an "overview" map, to give you a sense of direction, i.e. mark the most important cities/strongholds (preferably with the option to make your own notations on said map - this should be perfectly achievable to mod in, since there have been mods for previous Elder Scrolls games, which allow you to "write your own journal" in-game)

no quest-markers (easily fixed through the .ini file; but preferably modded into a compilation)
no compass (whoever "invented" the idea of a compass in games such as these should be cast out as a heretic) (once again, easily fixed through .ini file, but should be modded into said compilation)

no more "text" displaying whether a container/chest/barrel/etc. have anything inside, or not

no more level-scaling (Morrowind had it as well, although not nearly as apparent, Oblivion's was horrible)

climbing-gear(?) (would require "open-cities" - once again; Daggerfall had climbing, and there is a mod for Morrowind which add climbing-tools; as long as it isn't over-powered I see no reason why it should not be implemented into the game)

revised combat-system (I'm thinking Gothic 1 style-combat preferably, but in this case I think we'll "have to settle" with something akin to Daggerfall)

slower leveling (make you work for it)

athletics/acrobatics as skills (don't overpower them such as in previous installments of the series; just make them "just right")

no health-displays on enemies (any and all enemies - this was (IIRC) "easily fixed" in Morrowind)

all weapons/armor/etc. available from scratch (just 'cause I've leveled don't mean that the world around me should start selling "better equipment", they should be readily available from scratch)
going further with the idea above, perhaps actual requirements on the gear, instead (has worked fine in plenty of other cRPG's - don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in this game)

no cross-hair what-so-ever (the "ordinary" cross-hair is easily removed with .ini/menu tweaks, alas the "sneak" cross-hair is there still)
going further with above - no "indication" whether you are hidden or not

as OT mentions - cloaks, or similar and I dare say that there should be some kind of penalty for not wearing it, unless you are a Nord who should (supposedly) be used to the cold - a Khajiit on the other hand??)

revamped economy altogether (this has been a necessity in all Elder Scroll games; whereas the Gothic series has managed this quite splendidly)

class-specialization(?) - a Warrior may know a spell or two, but should mostly rely on scrolls to get them safe through a battle - with room to create dual-class, but limit it so there's no more "jack-of-all-trades" roaming around

sleep-requirement - you must sleep [x]-hours every day/night (in a proper location) or your stats shall suffer

psychology - Daggerfall-style although as a requirement (i.e you're required to choose a foe which you fear more than others, hence engaging in combat with said foe will lower your chances/also a "favored" foe, meaning the exact opposite of said foe)

languages (I dream of the day that the Everquest linguistic system come to use in other cRPG's, alas this is purely a dream and remain highly optional)

more variety in height/"weight" of the different races (make them actually seem unique in comparison with each-other)

open cities would once again give reason to (re)-implement the "levitate" spell which I (and many others) sorely lack since Oblivion made the "different world-cell towns"

the day a modder (or several) make Bethesda games actually have interiors in the same world-cell as the world itself will be the day computers grind to a halt - but still... no more loading into different world-cell just because you enter a house/dungeon/castle, please (once again not probable to happen, due to restrictions on the engine, but imagine being able to freely wander in and out of houses, etc. whilst firing bows/throwing spells at oncoming enemies)

Really Almost Everything Visible When Distant - this was hands down one of the most significant mods for Oblivion, since it completely and utterly ruins immersion when rocks/etc. suddenly pop up in front of you - I realize that this would heavily strain a lot of computers, but it should be less so than "ugridstoload", which is just ridiculously demanding on certain computers - this would (of course) be utterly optional - and I wish that we someday may get a "Graphics Extender" as such is available for Morrowind (MGEUI)

is it just me, or are weapons indestructible? hence no need for repairs? (seem odd to me)

(as been stated before, and also more for the sake of immersion, rather than actual Roleplaying, but greatly heightens the sense of participating in a role in a world) - arms/legs/feet/torso/etc. in first-person - I (as well as many others) hate being a floating head

I (as the majority of humanity) have 10 fingers - at least 8 of these can have a ring on them - likewise necklaces - I can (and often will) have at the very least 3 at the same time

ability to block with one-hand-weapon whilst dual-wielding (i.e. I use a sword in both hands, I should be able to block with at least one of them - preferably both, at any given time - script extender would be required and could probably succeed in this)

darker nights - now I realize this is tundra and there's snow, etc. but I do live way up north and even in winter-time it's still very dark, no matter if there's snow or not - same would apply to dungeons, etc. (I realize this is probably an easy .ini fix that I've yet not delved into, but still... should be in said mod-compilation)

spears - why these were ever removed from the series post-Morrowind is anyone's guess... but it would (logically) be the best weapon to use under-water



these are a handful of changes/additions that I'd like to see (as well as those of OP) - most of these are entirely doable (if the Creation Kit is anything like the previous editors for Morrowind/Oblivion/Fallout 3/New Vegas - and with a little help from Script-extensions)

I've got plenty more, but I'll settle with these for now

I dare say that with every iteration of the Elder Scrolls franchise (engine-wise) we are given more opportunities and can tweak/enhance the gameplay further than the previous installment, although I lack some neat features of the mods created for Morrowind (mainly MGEUI and Morrowind Enhanced), there are still a lot of things we can change given the right tools

Oblivion suffered severely due to the lacking draw-distance and the bland setting, whereas Morrowind wasn't quite as developed (engine-wise) as Oblivion, but it did make up for what it lacked (in engine) with genuine character/environment/lore/etc.

Daggerfall was probably the "richest" game in all of the series (content-wise, and I'm not only talking land-size), but alas the more streamlined the series got the more it had to narrow down, also to meet the "casual" gamer (Morrowind being the first Elder Scrolls game developed for other platforms than PC)

also with the times we are facing now, where cRPG's have been dumbed down to such a degree that even my grand-mother would be bored (we are a far cry from the days of Ultima IV/V) - but we are given much more potential, if only we have the right tools and the right people behind the wheel

I for one will almost certainly start making mods (once again) for Skyrim, since I've been actively modding for Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3/New Vegas and am somewhat familiar with the engine(s)

Skyrim leans towards Gothic/Risen in many aspects (mining/cooking food/blacksmithing/etc) but is severely lacking in a lot of other areas

would Gothic have had the same availability towards modding I'd never grown tired of the series (we're talking 1-3 here), but alas

Bethesda (since Morrowind) have provided us with the best tools to create worlds which we can fully enjoy and explore at our own leisure, they have certainly embraced the modding-communities, but unfortunately they have catered to the casual-gamer and are streamlining the experiences more by every iteration of their engine(s)

I am hopeful that we can at the very least achieve some sort of complex (and to many more enjoyable) cRPG experience with the Creation-engine
partly because we (the modders) are familiar with the engine (you can call it whatever you want, but in the same way that the .netimmerse engine for Morrowind is basically the same as the Gamebryo engine for Oblivion, the Creation-engine is basically the same that we've been working with throughout all these years)

modding will (most probably) start out slow - but as more and more people acknowledge the gem in the rough here that is Elder Scrolls V, we might, we just might be able to turn this once-upon-a-time great (outstanding) series of games into something which better suits the label of a true cRPG, for what we have right now is (as with Oblivion) an Action-Adventure with stats

they [Bethesda] have severely crippled our options (making new skills, etc. may prove impossible), but they've at least given us a stronger engine/game-world to expand upon - and I think that as long as the modding-community is still active and prepared to work hard for it - we may yet prove that cRPG's are, always have been and always should be just that - a Computer Role-Playing Game

@Lord_Santa

I like most of your realistic immersion ideas.

But I really hope you find a way to add maps as a purchasable item with "addable" "x"es.

Being a person that started playing TES at the Oblivion Stage, how would you even deal with no magicka regeneration as a mage?

However, your TL:DR comment was really condescending towards console players. Just saying.

Thanks Darth and Santa

I like what I'm reading here.

I'd think the same way as in Daggerfall - i.e. you sleep/drink potion(s) to regain your mana



I realize that, I'm just (very) fed up with people complaining about "it's too long to read" and I find it very annoying with people not making the actual effort to properly listen to an opinion before voicing theirs

on that note, however - I do own about 25 consoles myself (ranging from Sega Master System/Nintendo Entertainment System up to and including Wii/X360) - but since I am certain that the wide variety of people not being bothered to read the entirety of it would be (suitably) offended by the tl;dr, I was hoping that they'd either - A.) - read the entire text, or B.) realize that in order to experience the depths of which a Computer Role-Playing game entails, they would be required to actually spend some time digging down to said depth

't was more a snide remark towards the endless streamlining of cRPG's in favor for console-players, than an actual punch at said console-players

having been (and still being) a very active console-player - I know that each and every console I own serve a different purpose (i.e. the Sega Saturn is made for 2D-SHMUP's, N64 for great 3D-platformers, etc) - but all the RPG's I own for said consoles (with the exception of Ultima IV for the Sega Master System, which is the only faithful console version of said game) are indeed made to suit said console(s), thus severely limiting the actual RP'ing of said games, in favor of telling a story of a number of individuals whom you guide through their "Ultimate Quest", rather than (as with the Elder Scrolls series, in particular) forming your own character and his/hers views upon the world and customizing the experience to a much greater degree than what is feasible in a Console-RPG (due to restrictions, both of controllers, as well as audience and hard-ware)

I did not mean to offend, as much as I meant to enlighten the fact that if you the reader/replier are indeed serious about creating a deep Role-Playing experience, or wanting to hear about said topic, then they should take the time to be thorough and not mistake this game, nor genre for anything that is available on said consoles

this is a Computer Role-Playing game, which gives it a much greater variety of options to tweak/mod than any console-game (Morrowind for Xbox1 not counting) and thus be serious, not only in their understanding of the text, but also in their replies.

My share of some ideas:

Visual fix for 2x one handed weapons equipped, becouse atm you can only see one.
Bow + Arrows and 2x one handed weapons can be equipped at same time but difirent buttons to active - lets say R for one handed and Q for bow.
Herds of animals - more then 10 - Mamoth's, deer, wolf pack, etc...
Herd if big (5+) can attack you - Speacly like Mamoth and deer (Strenght in number).
Pack of bandit's, where wolf's, etc.. Something like they are on hunt. (More then 10).
Extreme (yes extreme) overhaul of your companion AI, using skill tree, ability to jump so he/she wont get stuck and way more options to choise from.
Able to get via quest a companion - saber car, wolf, etc....
Ability to come with an agreenment (diplomacy) with giants, so we have piece in region.
Enemy AI has group tactics.
Assassinations/kiling are almost everyday occurrence.
Pickpocketing are almost everyday occurrence.
Brawls on the street or in bar - randoms and almost everyday.
10x more alive open world (generaly random ideas).
Removing character lvl's.
Scaling whole game world from lvl 50 and up.
Removing fast travel options.
Removing mobs on radar.

RPG needs mods have been created for OB, Fallout 3 and MW. I am sure the same will be done for Skyrim. Mods like these require scripts, scripts can only be implemented in the CS, some scripts need a script extender. Once we have all of these,mods like this will be possible.

Also, you can post all of the ideas you want. Some of the ideas I see here would be exceedingly difficult if not impossible to implement without access to the source code ( and even then, may not be capable on this engine).
If you have an idea of how your idea would work then feel free to share but just tossing crap at a wall to see what sticks is better left for a DLC Hopes and Dreams thread found in the General Section

I would like this if there is a way in the beginning to turn on and off certain aspects when setting up. some of these ideas are amazing and some of them i think are terrible.

Great ideas Lord_Santa, I'd hit that.

I really miss having to repair your weapons, and how you auto-heal all the time. Makes the game way to easy so far, granted I am only about 5 hours in(just got the game yesterday). I came on here hoping the CS was out and maybe a mod existed to fix those two things, so sad how all games are getting easier and easier to cater to a insta-win audience. Never understood how you can find a non-challenging game fun.

I dont think the word hardcoe is appropriate anymore.

What about maschism Mod?

I was just going to move on, then saw this.

Seriously? WTF is this?

Generally speaking, your idea is not bad at all, if you want a bit more hard core RPG.
But why not sleeping outside? That's not realistic at all in a world like Skyrim.

If you really would wander around a place like Skyrim and would have a long journey, wouldn't it be quite
normal to make a campfire somewhere and stay overnight?

It could be so that you could buy a sleeping bag and some equipment to make a fire and
you would then be able to really camp outside.

Btw, one thing i really miss in Elder Scrolls games is that the animals and creatures at night would be different than during the daytime.
I mean that if you wander around at night, a vampire seeking for food or a werefolf or a night animal could attack you.

-Welmu

Some of those ideas are great, some less so. Just something small I've noticed that I'd liek to add is

1. Dirty characters. I made my char have a little dirt on her as I felt it fit her at the beginning (being close to be executed and all), BUT I don't want her to be dirt ALL the time. So maybe something in the same range as the gore summin mod from oblivion (the one that made you splattered with blood during fights which later washed off if you went into water), but with dirt instead, like if you dun wash off for a few days you get dirtier and dirtier. The same goes with clothes, why are ALL the clothes in the game so [censored] dirty?
2. This goes along with darker night and dungeons, but remove torches and braziers from "natural" dungeons and unused houses! Why the [censored] would a cave fileld with only spiders or a ruin filled with undeads have burning torches? Makes no sense.
3. Burial Mod (made a post about this before), a mod that removes deads bodies of npc, at least those that live in a city and have a house + name, and raises a gravestone somewhere fitting (or maybe give them a place in the Hall of the Dead?). Would also be awesome if like the family of the person were in mourning and stood by the grave for a while after burial.
4. Fix the marriage thingy; I want to be able to give my wife a set of clean and nice clothes (although I guess we have to wait for a nice clothes mod as well) and some jewelry, instead of having her run around in rags. Maybe have her wear a nice outfit at the wedding as well.

These are mainly immersion mods, but they are things that have bothered me as I played the game. Might continue to add to this list as I come up with more things, and will prob. give it a go to make some of these mods as well, but as I haven't made many mods before....

I don't get why people always say this is a console port, then list items like this. These don't sound like a port issue as much as it is an annoyance. I think most of the stuff you list would be cool at the start, then just svck after a bit. I think they didn't put those things in for the sake of fun.

This would be a great mod, just not something for vanilla Skyrim. Personally, I wouldn't install any of these options, except for the fast traveling part (the first part of it any way), and the horses.

None of this stuff makes it a "Console Port" though imo.

When you said "Real RPG" I thought you were talking about things like compelling choices followed by meaningful consequences (think Dragon Age: Origins).

There was a hunger mod for Oblivion and Morrowind that required you to eat food after set number of hours or you lose health over time. I believe this mod will end up being ported over.

I like this idea. I would also like to see an emphasis on location appropriate clothing. The best example of this is walking around in broad daylight, in public, wearing dark brotherhood armor. I mean really, I'd hope the guards at the city I live in would arrest someone wearing the clothes and colors of a known murderer's organization on sight.

The only sane idea is the day/night creature change.

Khatiits do have fur . I agree with you on this though, a penalty, maybe hypothermia, with exposure to the cold would be cool.

I agree with all your suggestions sir; but with a few counter points to the above.
Sleeping out doors should be possible with proper equipment, tent / campfire etc. but should come with the danger of random attacks in the night.

If there were a system of injuries, illnesses and infections, and the player currently has none and is well rested, I would forgive the health regen, but lose the well rested effect, or gain a wound and no more health regen till you sort it out.

a compass like effect could be gained via a watered down novice clairvoyance spell (make the current one a master level spell) this would act like the sword in shadow of the colossus and a blue light would arc out of your hand in the direction of north.

Make magicka potions slightly easier to attain by tweaking alchemy ingredient effect, and lowering their shop price a little.


Nice Ideas, if its possible to query the time of day when spawning enemies this would be a very welcome addition in my book. mainly because I think wolves should only be about at night time.


if there was some clothes centric scripting it might also work to make the player get ill if they walk around without any of the cold weather variant clothes for extended periods.

Only regenerating magicka with potions and giving potions an animation time (ie, not instant) would ruin the game for a mage class. Magicka is something that is fundamentally gamey and unrealistic, attempts to make it "realistic" are just going to screw up gameplay imo. There is no real reason that magicka should exist in the first place.

I'd prefer Hunger to be a seperate bar, like it is in minecraft. If your hunger bar is full you regain health and mp over time, if it's less than 50% you don't regenerate hp or mp, and if it's empty you slowly lose health.

Weariness could be an "active affect" that occurs after x hours of not sleeping and gets worse the longer you go without sleeping. Maybe it could be similar to being "drunk", make vision blurry, make you move slower, stop HP and MP regenerating, etc.

Waiting with "T" wouldn't regenerate hp, but sleeping in -any- bed, yes... even ones that are outside (lots of camps about the place and hopefully there will be a portable bedroll/campfire mod) would regain hp and mp.

If you're going to take out fast travel, put more caravans around the place and seriously, seriously improve horse controls/mechanics. Horses are awful to use and companions following you on foot while you ride is by far the stupidest and most immersive killing aspect of the game imo. I actually use fast travel in Skyrim more than any other TES I've played to avoid this ridiculous scenario that is totally unrealistic. I usually ride places, then use fast travel to get my companion there, so that needs to be sorted out.

I do love the idea about the cloaks, and a penalty for not wearing a cloak when it's snowing. I really, really want my character to wear one of those awesome cloaks from Game of Thrones Think everyone will agree that it would be damaging to your health to wear metal plate in -20 C environment in real life, lol.

Also it should damage your hp to swim in icy water, and your horses.

I would definitely like to see some kind of climbing mechanic, there are so many mountains in this game and it's kind of a pain that you can't climb at all. It's one of those things that hero's are always inherently good at, for some reason.

It would be good if there was a bleeding active affect that you needed to use bandages (linen wraps) to get rid of, or some restoration spell.

And yeah... if you're going to get rid of the compass, the journal needs a serious overhaul with details about quests, or a way to write down your own notes about quests or something.

The companions definitely need loads of work, and could use back stories and quest lines.

I would be interested in a sort of "hardcoe survival" mod with requirements for food, drink and maybe even sleep, but I'm much more interested in having the game economy tweaked toward something more challenging. It's extremely easy to gain money and buy anything in Skyrim vanilla (and that is fine in the vanilla game that is geared more toward the EPIC QUEST style gameplay) but it would be interesting to play a hardcoe MOD where basic foods would range between affordable and fairly pricey, where you could buy low quality equipment for a fairly low price but have the prices go up steeply with quality. I'd like to see much more variety in equipment quality too, ranging from different varieties of cloth, hide and leather armor to reinforced and studded light armors and chainmails of varying qualities and then up to finely crafted armors of many tiers. Low and moderate quality equipment should also remain a more viable option for longer. I suppose this could be handled through your gear wearing down and needing repairs. It should be much cheaper to keep your mid range stuff in repair than repairing fine chainmails especially if your fine chainmail is made of some rare material you will have to really pay for... I think this might also balance treasure somewhat... If you get your hands on some great armor early on that you can't really afford to keep repaired, you'll have to choose between maybe selling it, (most likely for a lot less than it's worth but getting a nice little boost to your monetary situation) only using it for when you really need it mostly wearing other stuff or just taking the short term benefit of using it until it wears down completely.

I like the fact that nature in Skyrim has plenty of gatherable ingredients. I think in a survival style hardcoe mod nature and hunting should be the most viable options to keep yourself alive. Gathering and selling ingredients, hunting animals with a bow for food and pelts to use or sell, maybe fishing( I think you'd need boats and nets to make a real living from this so mostly just food for yourself). Perhaps you could also seek aprenticeship under some crafters in towns but this probably would need overhauling the whole crafting system to be interesting...

Dungeoneering should be fairly dangerous and I guess in a hardcoe mod you would hardly be able to haul out every bit of stuff worth a dime. It might be interesting to hire henchmen to help clear dungeons and haul the loot. There should ofcourse be risks involved like having to pay them something in advance and the risk of henchmen sneaking off with the best items perhaps?

There are many ideas in my head for a hardcoe survival type of gameplay in Skyrim or even better a custom worldspace but I don't really have the time to spew them all on this thread.

One thing that annoys me is the amount of gold found in the world. Has no one ever gone into these dungeons before my character? why does every corpse and urn have money and jewelry in it? In the hundreds of years that dungeon has been there no one ever thought to raid it? With all the bandits in the world why wouldn't they have looted these places by now? In the game, our characters are more or less new to Skyrim, we got captured coming over the border, its hard to believe no one until our character has decided to raid these tombs...

Money should be very difficult to come by in ANY RPG/medieval kind of setting. I even think most of the stuff you find should be considered junk even to the merchants. Why would they buy a sword off you that u found in a dungeon! that sword likely needs a blacksmiths touch before you could sell it!

And as previously stated, things like Hunting, Wood chopping, Mining and even Fishing should be a means for survival and earning a living in the game world. Same with taking advantage of quests to gain an income flow.

I also feel you shouldn't be able to level unless you have slept or even need to find a trainer to increase your skills each level (or every 5 levels)

Wrt scoprius' post.

Be good if the clairvoyance spell also made the 'destination marker' appear in your compass. Would be cool if it didn't appear in your compass by default, until you've cast that spell, forcing you to refer to your map and compass in conjunction to get where you're going (like you would in reality).

It would mean the spell is more useful as well, currently it's effect has little application because it's not exactly difficult to work out the correct path without it.